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3-D Display, Viewing Calibration Standards - Page 2

post #31 of 49
3/1/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Thanks taz. I've calibrated a one of these sets in the past, but I guess that I didn't realize that it was "3D capable". I do have the user manual and now see where it talks about the 3D function.

Based on a better understanding of your set and the photos that you have set indicates that the set is making a compensation for the tint of the glasses (as I would hope it would). The problem in doing that is Samsung has got to be assuming a certain color impact with all glasses.

Incidently, I went to a Sony Store today and looked at their 3D demo. I noted that the glasses were slightly "warmer" (when I looked at the screen or when I looked at some gray and white surfaces in the area). The shift wasn't strong (in fact, most people probably wouldn't really notice it).

Did you see any flicker in the demo?
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post #32 of 49
3/1/10 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Did you see any flicker in the demo?

No.
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post #33 of 49
3/1/10 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

No.

Yet many others did. How do you explain that?
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post #34 of 49
3/1/10 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yet many others did. How do you explain that?

This is a thread on Calibration - not flicker! Let's stick to the topic please.
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post #35 of 49
3/1/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Thanks taz. I've calibrated a one of these sets in the past, but I guess that I didn't realize that it was "3D capable". I do have the user manual and now see where it talks about the 3D function.

Based on a better understanding of your set and the photos that you have set indicates that the set is making a compensation for the tint of the glasses (as I would hope it would). The problem in doing that is Samsung has got to be assuming a certain color impact with all glasses.

Incidently, I went to a Sony Store today and looked at their 3D demo. I noted that the glasses were slightly "warmer" (when I looked at the screen or when I looked at some gray and white surfaces in the area). The shift wasn't strong (in fact, most people probably wouldn't really notice it).

Yeah, it just seems with a naked eye, that the display is a bit more harsh than the glasses. But like I said, once you put the glasses on, it's fine.
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post #36 of 49
3/1/10 at 5:02pm
Thread Starter 
So far, I've gathered that the TV needs to have different calibration settings based on 2D or 3D mode.

I found the actual ITU H.264 standard, a free download from the ITU (the international governing body): Recommendation H.264 (03/09). MVC is in Annex H, page 616 (of 670). (Note that it's a recommendation.)

OK, but this doesn't tell me how to calibrate. After more research, I'm finding that there are too many systems out there. Too much hype, not enough data. I am finding that calibration of the camera is very critical (and demanding to maintain). So far, everyone seems to be waiting for NAB in April.

Here's a 2007 paper that gives an overview of the entire 3-D process, from camera to viewer. Multi-View Imaging and 3DTV. It helps explain how all the pieces fall together.

Are glasses calibrated separately from the displays? I suspect so. That means you need reference images for the display and a reference set of glasses (?).
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post #37 of 49
3/1/10 at 5:15pm
CES 2010 - the world's first self calibrating TV technology


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post #38 of 49
3/1/10 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

So far, I've gathered that the TV needs to have different calibration settings based on 2D or 3D mode.

I found the actual ITU H.264 standard, a free download from the ITU (the international governing body): Recommendation H.264 (03/09). MVC is in Annex H, page 616 (of 670). (Note that it's a recommendation.)

OK, but this doesn't tell me how to calibrate. After more research, I'm finding that there are too many systems out there. Too much hype, not enough data. I am finding that calibration of the camera is very critical (and demanding to maintain). So far, everyone seems to be waiting for NAB in April.

Here's a 2007 paper that gives an overview of the entire 3-D process, from camera to viewer. Multi-View Imaging and 3DTV. It helps explain how all the pieces fall together.

Are glasses calibrated separately from the displays? I suspect so. That means you need reference images for the display and a reference set of glasses (?).

You started this thread and deserve better answers that you are getting.

I'd like to share my thoughts as a professional calibrator, but I have found that when I do share I get nit-picked. My thoughts on dealing with isf Calibration on 3D sets are conjecture (well founded conjecture, but conjecture no less) right now as there are no 3D sets out there for anyone to gain experience with. Rather than going down that rat-hole I will withold my thoughts until the professional calibrator community has gained sufficient experience to reach consensus.
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post #39 of 49
3/2/10 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
I did some further research on the IEEE website at work. There was a 3DTV academic conference in 2008 (the next one is 2010 in Finland). Lots of interesting papers on various topics, but nothing dedicated to user calibration. There were a few papers on camera calibration, but nothing else.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that the technology is not ready for serious prime time (something better than consumer level).

That Spyder YouTube.com promo did not address 3-D. Further discussion should be in the Display Calibration forum.
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post #40 of 49
3/2/10 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

That Spyder YouTube.com promo did not address 3-D. Further discussion should be in the Display Calibration forum.

If it can be done for 2D why can't it be done for 3D?

Who sets the standards for an HDTV calibration?
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post #41 of 49
3/2/10 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Quote:


Originally Posted by GeekGirl
That Spyder YouTube.com promo did not address 3-D. Further discussion should be in the Display Calibration forum.

If it can be done for 2D why can't it be done for 3D?

But she is asking about what ARE the standards for 3D, not some random (old news) link about 2D. It really does only belong in the calibration forum.
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post #42 of 49
3/2/10 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

But she is asking about what ARE the standards for 3D, not some random (old news) link about 2D.

LOL! Less than 2 months ago is old news?

BTW - you didn't answer my other question:

Who sets the standards for an HDTV calibration?
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post #43 of 49
3/3/10 at 10:56pm
When 3D films are remastered for the home are they going to increase the parallax to compensate for the smaller screen. If they do not I would expect the 3D effect to be far less impressive than at the cinema. If they do increase the parallax I can see possible problems with home cinema projectors, since they would end up with a larger parallax than the original theatrical release, so more exaggerated 3D effects and possibly more risk of eye strain.
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post #44 of 49
3/4/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dovercat View Post

When 3D films are remastered for the home are they going to increase the parallax to compensate for the smaller screen. If they do not I would expect the 3D effect to be far less impressive than at the cinema. If they do increase the parallax I can see possible problems with home cinema projectors, since they would end up with a larger parallax than the original theatrical release, so more exaggerated 3D effects and possibly more risk of eye strain.

Players or displays need to have a separation setting, which would fix this. Stereoscopic Player has this feature. The new Samsungs have this feature also. My Samsung doesn't, so it has to be done via the player.
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post #45 of 49
3/4/10 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Players or displays need to have a separation setting, which would fix this. Stereoscopic Player has this feature. The new Samsungs have this feature also. My Samsung doesn't, so it has to be done via the player.

Isn't that just for when the set is in 2D to 3D mode?
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post #46 of 49
3/4/10 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
Is there a certain user field of view that's assumed for the parallax? For example, from my eyes, the screen covers a 30 degree viewing angle.

They must be assuming a larger viewing angle for movies versus at home. Viewing at any other angle is going to be out of focus somewhere, regardless if it's closer or further away. Hence, the eye strain.

Proper viewing angle is what you really want to achieve. Changing the display size forces you to different viewing distances to maintain the proper viewing angle. For 3-D this means everything to parallax correction.

I'm just thinking how an optical lens works. Same principles.
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post #47 of 49
3/4/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Isn't that just for when the set is in 2D to 3D mode?

I have no idea, I just saw a picture of the display:
http://gizmodo.com/5480818/samsungs-...+%28Gizmodo%29

Also, notice the red tint of the video? Just like my DLP does.
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post #48 of 49
3/4/10 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

Is there a certain user field of view that's assumed for the parallax? For example, from my eyes, the screen covers a 30 degree viewing angle.

They must be assuming a larger viewing angle for movies versus at home. Viewing at any other angle is going to be out of focus somewhere, regardless if it's closer or further away. Hence, the eye strain.

Proper viewing angle is what you really want to achieve. Changing the display size forces you to different viewing distances to maintain the proper viewing angle. For 3-D this means everything to parallax correction.

I'm just thinking how an optical lens works. Same principles.

With my testing, 30-degrees to the left or right is about right. I can still see the 3D effect, but it diminishes. I didn't pay too much attention to focus, so I'll do that tomorrow.
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post #49 of 49
3/5/10 at 7:58am
Thread Starter 
I was being optimistic. Someone moved the furniture. A better test range would be from about 32 degrees to 22 degrees. For a 55" display (63" diagonal), that's from 8 feet to 12 feet back.

The objective is to determine a viewing "box" where everything is in focus. Consider that you may have 4 people sitting on a V-shaped couch. How far left/right and near/far from the display will be in focus?

What test patterns are used to determine focus? I don't see much info from a Google search. Is anything supplied with the display?

It seems that you would want to wrap a crosshatch pattern around a sphere (perfect circle in 3D), like a basketball hanging in mid-air in front of the display. The crosshatch will show where RGB alignment goes out or if the focus gets soft.

How far can you walk around it (also above and below) before the crosses go out of convergence or get soft (I don't know what it will do)?

It might be interesting to see if white hatches on black (transparent surface in 3D?) or black hatches on white makes a difference.
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