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Samsung PNXXc450 Owners Thread *NO PRICE TALK* - Page 5

post #121 of 1730
Just checked out a 50C450 at the store (not BestBuy)

the Design is amazing, all black and thin, the AR looked very good making deep blacks under light. then they had a 42C450 in a dark enviroment and the Blacks looked good.

Will be picking up a 50" this weekend.
post #122 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Pen, have you tried out your c450 with a Blu-Ray source? Do black levels improve with the better Blu-Ray source? I ask this because I was watching some OTA HD last night, and on 16:9 material the black bars didn't seem very black to me (in a pitch black room). In fact, I'd say they would be about equal to the Samsung A550 1080p LCD in the family room in the same pitch black viewing env. I'm not overly disappointed as the general PQ and colors on this set are fabulous, but I was expecting deeper blacks than my LCD being as this is a plasma.

EDIT: Also, anyone tried the MediaPlay/USB port on the TV?? I plug in my digital camera and go to 'photos', but all is shows is a bunch of empty boxes and none of my pictures.

The blacks on the set do get slightly better as it ages, but Samsung Plasmas aren't known for great blacks.


I have noticed that there are a few interesting things about the screen. First off, my screen isn't uniform, there are splotches on the screen that look off in color. (the screen itself, not the AR filter) it isn't very distracting, but it is there.

Second, the dither, Samsung is using 3 kinds of dither on these sets.

1. Static, it looks like a subtle unmoving grain to the image, only visible up close.

2. Spatial, this is the dancing pixels you see up close.

3. Temporal, also known as motion adaptive dither, it apears in dark scenes as more noticable dancing pixels when the scene is in motion.


For a point of reference, Panasonic doesn't use static dither, but has more agressive forms of 2 and 3 so it evens out with Samsung's being less noticable at a distance.
post #123 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by poohba86 View Post

c450 doesn't swivel either.

Yeah, I'm really ticked off about that! The A450 and the B450 swiveled, what are they thinking taking that feature away on the new C models? Samsung clowns! Anyhow I just saw the 50 inch C450 a couple days ago, and honestly, I do not know what PENDRAG0ON is referring to with these black lines. If he is talking about the screen door effect, well...it's 768p, so what would you expect if you sit close enough. I don't think there are any weird black lines in the Samsung C450's I've seen so far.
post #124 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocuMaker View Post

Yeah, I'm really ticked off about that! The A450 and the B450 swiveled, what are they thinking taking that feature away on the new C models? Samsung clowns! Anyhow I just saw the 50 inch C450 a couple days ago, and honestly, I do not know what PENDRAG0ON is referring to with these black lines. If he is talking about the screen door effect, well...it's 768p, so what would you expect if you sit close enough. I don't think there are any weird black lines in the Samsung C450's I've seen so far.


that's good to know... about the black lines. the real question is:

how does the color accuracy and black levels of the C450 compare to the 2009 B450?

Samsung obviously got rid of the swivel stand so they could cut costs and sell the C450 at a lower MSRP. $600 and $800 is an excellent price. where my TV is located a swivel stand would be great to have... so it upsets me too!

and I think for the money the 50" for just $200 more is a much better deal than the 42" 1024 x 768 TV.
the 50" has a much larger screen.... and a better resolution of 1366 x 768 !!
post #125 of 1730
Dead pixel popped up after watching Blu Ray of "Zombieland"...had not noticed it beforehand as I have given the screen a few good once-overs...hoping HHGregg accepts it as an exchange (and hope they have them in stock still). Samsung website says they will only replace/exchange if its more than one or two dead ones.

Blacks are much better than my 1080p A550 LCD.....spoke too soon on that front...
post #126 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

I believe the C430 has one less HDMI input and doesnt have the TOC. Its all black.

Which has better PQ , also are they both 2010 models? It's hard for me to compare the two. I seen both of them at 2 different stores , its kinda hard to go back and forth and compare the two. Besides one less HDMI on the C430 and the TOC , I don't know which is better. I'm trying to buy one of these within the next few days.
post #127 of 1730
They are exactly the same, Both 2010 Models just have thos cosmetic differences.
post #128 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

They are exactly the same, Both 2010 Models just have thos cosmetic differences.

thanks
post #129 of 1730
I just purchased a pn50c450 today.

I have a pn50a450 already and I absolutely love it. It's given me 0 problems since I got it a couple of years ago.

Originally I was planning on buying a pn58b550 but figured it would be overkill. So then it was either between the pn50c450 or pn50c550. I went to Best Buy to see if the c550 was worth the price jump and IMO it wasn't. I have perfect vision and I could only tell the difference between the two when I was 3 ft away from them. I kept walking closer and farther back, staying in certain spots just watching. I probably looked like a giant idiot. Not once could I find a difference that would justify the difference in price though. I realize the c550 has more features as well however it didn't have anything that I absolutely needed to have. So for me and what intend to do with the tv, the c450 was adequate.

I have my 450 on movie mode now and I turned everything down so I'll leave it like this for a little while. My set has a buzz to it but it's nothing out of the ordinary for plasmas. I have to put the tv on mute and stick my head behind it to hear it.

This thread is one of the threads I read before I went and checked out the 450, so the first item on my agenda was to check out the black lines that PENDRAGON is talking about and I think he's just referring to the screen door effect that 720ps have.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the set. Despite the negative things that people say about Best Buy, I've had 2 pleasant experiences buying my plasmas there.
post #130 of 1730
Come on Guys we need more settings. I am having a hard time finding one i like.
post #131 of 1730
I'm using settings from the B450 Thread.
post #132 of 1730
does this model have the TOC red stripe that lights up at the bottom? From photos it looks like it does but I don't see it mentioned anywhere?
post #133 of 1730
Thread Starter 
The black lines are NOT the screen door effect, there is a black spacer between each horizontal row of pixels, this is not normal on a 720p Plasma. If these black lines were SDE, then there would be vertical lines as well. SDE disappeared to my eyes around 9 feet on a 720p 50 inch set, these lines are visible up to 14 feet away, and up close there are obvious gaps between the rows, while there are no gaps between the pixels. (depending on the color, some pixels will go dark and give the illusion of SDE with the lines, but it is only that, an illusion)
post #134 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcibrando View Post

does this model have the TOC red stripe that lights up at the bottom? From photos it looks like it does but I don't see it mentioned anywhere?

It does have the red TOC but honestly I've never even noticed it. I was afraid it was going to be a distracting bright red light along the bottom of the tv but it stays black all the time. Maybe mine is broken or something but it seems like a pretty worthless feature.
post #135 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The black lines are NOT the screen door effect, there is a black spacer between each horizontal row of pixels, this is not normal on a 720p Plasma. If these black lines were SDE, then there would be vertical lines as well. SDE disappeared to my eyes around 9 feet on a 720p 50 inch set, these lines are visible up to 14 feet away, and up close there are obvious gaps between the rows, while there are no gaps between the pixels. (depending on the color, some pixels will go dark and give the illusion of SDE with the lines, but it is only that, an illusion)

Having listened to the clip of the Samsung Rep. explaining how those permanent black horizontal pixel spacer strips work, I would imagine that those black strips would stand out more across brighter scenes, Do you find that to be the case?

Unchangeable black horizontal lines, sounds like a terrible way to go away improving the perception of deeper black levels, but that is what the Samsung Rep. said they are intended for.
post #136 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Having listened to the clip of the Samsung Rep. explaining how those permanent black horizontal pixel spacer strips work, I would imagine that those black strips would stand out more across brighter scenes, Do you find that to be the case?

Unchangeable black horizontal lines, sounds like a terrible way to go away improving the perception of deeper black levels, but that is what the Samsung Rep. said they are intended for.

Yep, they are only noticable in bright scenes, I have yet to notice them in dark scenes. I have moved my seating to about 12 feet and I still see them regularly. I'll be calling Samsung about them to see what they do about it.
post #137 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yep, they are only noticable in bright scenes, I have yet to notice them in dark scenes. I have moved my seating to about 12 feet and I still see them regularly. I'll be calling Samsung about them to see what they do about it.

I expect that they will tell you that they are working as intended, and not a defect.

Look at it this way; They gave you permanent Infinite Blacks, only in narrow black strips.
post #138 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I expect that they will tell you that they are working as intended, and not a defect.

Look at it this way; They gave you permanent Infinite Blacks, only in narrow black strips.

Probably, but it is still pretty ridiculous that I can see what looks like scan lines (or interlacing) at 14 feet away...
post #139 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Probably, but it is still pretty ridiculous that I can see what looks like scan lines (or interlacing) at 14 feet away...

Do you see them while watching in a dark room, with no other light, or do you see them, even with some light in the room?

I am wondering if they also show up in the 1080P panels, or if the black spacers, in those models, are much thinner, and much less noticeable. Since most people sit much closer to 1080P models, the black strips should still stick out in bright scenes, I would imagine.

Now that the winter snow has all melted, I must take a long drive to some of the bigger stores, and check out all the 2010 models in person. I will not be posting my store findings, since they are useless. I just want to get some general impressions, and take a look all the 2010 models from all the manufacturers.
post #140 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Do you see them while watching in a dark room, with no other light, or do you see them, even with some light in the room?

I am wondering if they also show up in the 1080P panels, or if the black spacers, in those models, are much thinner, and much less noticeable. Since most people sit much closer to 1080P models, the black strips should still stick out in bright scenes, I would imagine.

It doesn't matter how much light is in the room, as long as it is a bright scene it can show up, but it isn't constantly visible, the type of content on screen has a lot to do with it. (I've been seeing them a lot in FFXIII)
post #141 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

It doesn't matter how much light is in the room, as long as it is a bright scene it can show up, but it isn't constantly visible, the type of content on screen has a lot to do with it. (I've been seeing them a lot in FFXIII)

That sounds like it would be annoying as all hell. Having to sit fourteen feet away; is just like watching a 42inch model from closer. Can you still return it to Amazon?
post #142 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yep, they are only noticable in bright scenes, I have yet to notice them in dark scenes. I have moved my seating to about 12 feet and I still see them regularly. I'll be calling Samsung about them to see what they do about it.


For what its worth, I have not noticed these black lines/spacers on my 42" c450 in any type of scenes, but I do have my settings minized (contrast/brightness). Depending on where I sit, I'm from 6-10 feet away...Typical viewing includes Blu-Ray, OTA HD, and SD cable...no gaming.

Dead pixel is making me angry ...only notice it against lighter backgrounds, but only notice it if I'm actually looking at it/for it (its dark blue in color)...HHgregg is out of stock until Thursday, and I believe Samsungs site says they typical dont replace it unless there are a few dead pixels. Not sure if I want to go through the hassle of exchanging to HHGregg....Are dead pixels very rare or somewhat common in plasmas?
post #143 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

For what its worth, I have not noticed these black lines/spacers on my 42" c450 in any type of scenes, but I do have my settings minized (contrast/brightness). Depending on where I sit, I'm from 6-10 feet away...Typical viewing includes Blu-Ray, OTA HD, and SD cable...no gaming.

Dead pixel is making me angry ...only notice it against lighter backgrounds, but only notice it if I'm actually looking at it/for it (its dark blue in color)...HHgregg is out of stock until Thursday, and I believe Samsungs site says they typical dont replace it unless there are a few dead pixels. Not sure if I want to go through the hassle of exchanging to HHGregg....Are dead pixels very rare or somewhat common in plasmas?

They used to be more common, but have become rarer, in the newer models.

Some people have had luck getting some unstuck by running some Pixar CGI animated DVD movies, a few times. Supposedly the color intensity of the animated movies provides enough stimulation of some stuck pixels, to get them to start firing properly.

If you have Finding Nemo on DVD, you might want to give it a try, to see if it can get the Blue Pixel unstuck.
post #144 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

That sounds like it would be annoying as all hell. Having to sit fourteen feet away; is just like watching a 42inch model from closer. Can you still return it to Amazon?

I have no intention of returning it, I got it for half the price of a 50c550 1080p model.

Quote:


For what its worth, I have not noticed these black lines/spacers on my 42" c450 in any type of scenes, but I do have my settings minized (contrast/brightness). Depending on where I sit, I'm from 6-10 feet away...Typical viewing includes Blu-Ray, OTA HD, and SD cable...no gaming.

On my 42px75 Panasonic looking up close there are black spacers as well, but instead of a single solid black line between each rows, there are 3 hyper thin lines that overlap the pixels, allowing light to pass through the gaps.

I'd have to see a 42c450 to see if the spacers are any different from the 50 inch model.

Quote:


Dead pixel is making me angry ...only notice it against lighter backgrounds, but only notice it if I'm actually looking at it/for it (its dark blue in color)...HHgregg is out of stock until Thursday, and I believe Samsungs site says they typical dont replace it unless there are a few dead pixels. Not sure if I want to go through the hassle of exchanging to HHGregg....Are dead pixels very rare or somewhat common in plasmas?

My 42px75 has none, the two 54G10's that I had each had one stuck pixel, my 54V10 had none, my 50c450 has none. None of the LCDs I've owned have had any either. (unless you count my PSP screen)
post #145 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

They used to be more common, but have become rarer, in the newer models.

Some people have had luck getting some unstuck by running some Pixar CGI animated DVD movies, a few times. Supposedly the color intensity of the animated movies provides enough stimulation of some stuck pixels, to get them to start firing properly.

If you have Finding Nemo on DVD, you might want to give it a try, to see if it can get the Blue Pixel unstuck.


Yea I remember hearing that with some LCD folks but wasn't sure if that worked on plasmas as well. I think I'll go through the exchange process if that doesn't work (I'm sure I've got some Pixar film around here somewhere).
post #146 of 1730
Thread Starter 
I called Samsung back and they are sending an outsourced tech out to look at the set, so this is going to be interesting. If he has good eyesight then I actually stand a chance of getting somewhere with them, if not, I hope he has good hearing and can hear the buzz.

My main goal is to raise awareness in the company that adding black lines between pixel rows is a stupid decision and will cause problems with viewers who have decent eyesight.
post #147 of 1730
Pendragoon is there any way you can take a hi res pic of what you're talking about?

There's literally no difference in screens between my a450 and c450, and I'm getting right up next to them. I also don't see them when I'm watching tv, and I'm 7-8ft away.
post #148 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezz View Post

Pendragoon is there any way you can take a hi res pic of what you're talking about?

There's literally no difference in screens between my a450 and c450, and I'm getting right up next to them. I also don't see them when I'm watching tv, and I'm 7-8ft away.

I only have a 640:480 camera phone at the moment, my main camera is moody and I need a new one. (I might get it to work, but it sucks 2 AA batteries in just 3 pictures now, I'll try it tonight)

They are quite literally a black spacer between each horizontal row of pixels, they are about half as thin as a row of pixels and are perfectly uniform across my entire screen, there is no way this is a one unit defect, it is too uniform.
post #149 of 1730
Movie Mode.

Cell Light = 10
Contrast = 75
Brightness = 50
Sharpness = 10
Color = 38
Tint G42/R58

Advanced
Black Tone = Off
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Gamma +1
Fleshtone = 0
Edge Enhancement = Off

Color Temp = Warm 2
DNF = Off

White:
20
25
15
25
05
25

Energy Save: Medium. (your choice)
post #150 of 1730
Thread Starter 
I'll give those settings a try and see how I like them.
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