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Samsung PNXXc450 Owners Thread *NO PRICE TALK* - Page 8

post #211 of 1730
Picked up the 50C450 today from BB.....Wow....Picture looks great right out of the box....I sit about 10' away and I hear no buzz and see no lines...No phosphor lag on xbox 360 (that I can see) and HD DirectTV looks great as well.....SD stuff doesn't look to hot, but thats to be expected on a 50" screen...I have a Harmony remote and it did not recognize the C450 model so I used the settings for the B450 and everything seems to be working fine. I can't believe I was even considering getting an LCD....This TV rocks.
post #212 of 1730
Ok, I went to Bestbuy to compare the 50 inch 720p sets which included the new Samsung PN50C450 and the Panasonic TC-P50C2, they were both on sale and priced the same. The sets were located above and below each other and I was able to look at them for over twenty minutes. It was quite apparent that the Panasonic had a softer and less detailed picture output compared to the Samsung. Also, there was more noise with the Panasonic, but the differences were slight. Overall, I would say the Samsung had a more pleasing picture with its increased sharpness which translated into more detail and slightly more vibrant output. I was kind of surprised that the Samsung had the better picture because I kept hearing how everyone raves about the picture quality of the Panasonic Plasma sets. Also, I placed my ear next to the Samsung and I heard nothing above the ambient noise in the store. Sitting next to the 720P Samsung was the 1080P Samsung PN50C550G1F and in my opinion there wasn't a significant difference between the two Samsung units. The 1080P Samsung had a slightly smoother output and it was more noticeable on facial features. The difference was minute, and I would not spend the extra $450 for the greater resolution. I was standing about 10 feet away from both sets. Bestbuy was completely out of stock of the 720p Samsung so I went over to Sears to check on availability. While I was at Sears, I was able to compare the 720p Samsung to the 720p LG50PJ350 set which were sitting next to each other. The LG definitely had a softer output compared to the Samsung and was less vibrant, although the LG did have an amazingly thin profile. The sales guy kept pushing the LG over the Samsung because of the swivel base and the thin profile. I placed my ear next to the Samsung and heard absolutely nothing. Sears had their Family and Friends discount tonight which discounted the price an extra 10%. I purchase the Samsung PN50C450 and the final price was $45 less than Best Buy. The set is supposed to be in on Wednesday for me to pickup. I used my Costco American Express card because I seemed to recall if you use their card they will cover warranties for an extra year. I think this is the case at Costco, is this true in general?
post #213 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Alright, after 60 hours of Final Fantasy XIII over a week and a half (with plenty of content to break it up) I think that it was a good IR/Burn-in test, the reason that I mention burn-in is because after 35 hours of various other content, the image of the FFXIII battle menus are still visible on an all black screen. The IR on my set looks like severe clouding. (and it is visible over normal content) Combine that with the streaks that the screen has and the uniformity is poor at best.

Odds are this will be my last plasma HDTV and that an LCD is in my Future. Plasma tech is just falling fast and it seems to be getting worse, not better. I'll still be keeping this set, but it will only remain my main set for a few months before I replace it.
post #214 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Alright, after 60 hours of Final Fantasy XIII over a week and a half (with plenty of content to break it up) I think that it was a good IR/Burn-in test, the reason that I mention burn-in is because after 35 hours of various other content, the image of the FFXIII battle menus are still visible on an all black screen. The IR on my set looks like severe clouding. (and it is visible over normal content) Combine that with the streaks that the screen has and the uniformity is poor at best.

Odds are this will be my last plasma HDTV and that an LCD is in my Future. Plasma tech is just falling fast and it seems to be getting worse, not better. I'll still be keeping this set, but it will only remain my main set for a few months before I replace it.

I'm glad I'm not a gamer...had my set for about 1.5weeks now and have not seen any signs of IR. I was running my settings low for the first few days but for the past week or so I have had them similar to other settings posted here.
post #215 of 1730
PQ is really good (42C450) but does anyone know a way to get rid of the jaggies?
post #216 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

Movie Mode.

Cell Light = 10
Contrast = 75
Brightness = 50
Sharpness = 10 - 0
Color = 38
Tint G42/R58

Advanced
Black Tone = Off
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Gamma +1
Fleshtone = 0
Edge Enhancement = Off

Color Temp = Warm 2
DNF = Off

White:
20
25
15
25
05
25

Energy Save: Medium. (your choice) Off

I really like these settings, but have made a few slight changes to them (bolded my changes) These are the settings that I am using now.
post #217 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I really like these settings, but have made a few slight changes to them (bolded my changes) These are the settings that I am using now.

Is it easier to use the settings that are default, on here or to buy a calibration disc?
post #218 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddmon View Post

Is it easier to use the settings that are default, on here or to buy a calibration disc?

The cheapest method is to try the settings here and adjust them to your eyes and viewing enviroment. Next up is getting a calibration disc and adjusting the settings based on that. Then you have ISF calibration, which is as good as it gets, but man is it expensive.
post #219 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The cheapest method is to try the settings here and adjust them to your eyes and viewing enviroment. Next up is getting a calibration disc and adjusting the settings based on that. Then you have ISF calibration, which is as good as it gets, but man is it expensive.

Has anyone tried this?
http://www.hometheatermag.com/advice...erts/407cali/#
post #220 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Definitely NOT a major difference. Depending on how far you sit, the difference may be very subtle, but I believe most enthusiasts are correct when they assume the average viewer can't discern difference in detail from 720p/1080p. I think the real world differences lie more with processing, black levels, and other general improvements on 1080p models. I find that my c450 plasma is equally as sharp as the 1080p 550 Samsung LCD downstairs with Blu-Ray, and has a sharper/cleaner image than my family members Panny X1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

This!

I'm going to go check out the TV today and I'll see how it compares to the PNB650. I'll probably pick up today and I'll see if I like it.
post #221 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I really like these settings, but have made a few slight changes to them (bolded my changes) These are the settings that I am using now.

These settings came from a Calibrated B450. i used it on the C450 and it looked awesome. all i did was put energy save on either off or medium but original settings is off.
post #222 of 1730
Thread Starter 
I've noticed that this set has "Infinite Blacks" that kick in within a second of an all black screen coming on, the problem is that if even one pixel fires it reverts to the default levels for black. While playing FFXIII everytime it would shift to black I would get constant black level flicker as it would go stupid trying to figure out which it is supposed to display. All my PS3 games have been doing this and the only way to stop it is to crush shadow details into oblivion or wash out the screen considerably. I have also seen this on several blu-ray movies but it is less common.

Yet another stupid design consideration from Samsung on their Plasma HDTVs.
post #223 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I've noticed that this set has "Infinite Blacks" that kick in within a second of an all black screen coming on, the problem is that if even one pixel fires it reverts to the default levels for black. While playing FFXIII everytime it would shift to black I would get constant black level flicker as it would go stupid trying to figure out which it is supposed to display. All my PS3 games have been doing this and the only way to stop it is to crush shadow details into oblivion or wash out the screen considerably. I have also seen this on several blu-ray movies but it is less common.

Yet another stupid design consideration from Samsung on their Plasma HDTVs.

I've noticed this too, but usually only when watching something on TV right before the commercial breaks start. Haven't figured out if its related to a power saving mode, cell light setting, etc...or if its inherent with the TV. It doesn't bother me when going to commercials and such, but it would certainly irk me if I would see it happen on my blu rays...haven't yet.
post #224 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

I've noticed this too, but usually only when watching something on TV right before the commercial breaks start. Haven't figured out if its related to a power saving mode, cell light setting, etc...or if its inherent with the TV. It doesn't bother me when going to commercials and such, but it would certainly irk me if I would see it happen on my blu rays...haven't yet.

The odd thing, it only happens with content, it never happens on a blank input. I can greatly reduce it with picture settings, but like I said, PQ suffers for it.
post #225 of 1730
can anyone check to see if there is a 3D sync out on this TV?
post #226 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

can anyone check to see if there is a 3D sync out on this TV?

I don't see a 3D-sync out on my 50"
post #227 of 1730
For those interested:

This works:
With the set ON, press Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power in quick succession.
If the set is already off, press Mute-1-8-2-Power.

Still haven't figured out how to turn off the melody or even change it from medium

Any ideas?
post #228 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues96 View Post

I don't see a 3D-sync out on my 50"

Hmmm...do I upgrade to a C450 or do I buy a B450
post #229 of 1730
I just got this swivel stand today and it is a cheap alternative to those tv's who give a swivel stand with the set (like my old LG50pq30)

Sanus Systems TV27 TV Turntable (Black, 27 Inch)
Less than $32.61 on Amazon - free shipping.

This can help swivel your tv away from a bright window right behind you. At least that's what I'm using it for here.

Hope this can help someone.
post #230 of 1730
for some reason I must agree that the B450 is a better TV than the C450.

it was so obvious to me in the store and Best Buy.

both 50 inchers and side by side.

put it this way.... there is now way you can say the C450 is a better TV than the B450.

I wish I could of had the remotes to adjust the settings.... maybe next time I visit. Oh.... and the 3D Samung LED LCD Demo showed how much better the Plasma TV's are for showing 3D because the Samsung LED 3D looks like garbage.
post #231 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by cumbaya19 View Post

Hmmm...do I upgrade to a C450 or do I buy a B450

I would upgrade your TV later to 3D when they get the price down and have it mastered. I don't think current models are going to give you the same kind of 3d as the true 3d sets. The B450 does something called stereoscopic-3D which my understanding isn't the same thing? Get the c450.
post #232 of 1730
Purchased the pn50c450 last week at Best Buy. I'll give a quick run over my thoughts and touch upon some of the main concerns I'm seeing on the board.

There is a "screen door effect" at close viewing, no question. I step back to 6-8 feet and I can't see it. I view from 10-12 feet in my den normally. I do wear eye glasses; my eyesight is not 20/20, but I can't imagine SDE on this set will be a problem at normal viewing distances for the vast majority of people.

Picture is top notch in my opinion for this price range. Picture adjustments are robust (white balance, gamma, cell lighting, black level adjustments). I'm not sure what is typical on higher end sets, but there are plenty of picture tweaks for my taste. Best Buy had the Samsung 1080p step up model side with the c450 and I could not see justification for the price difference with regards to picture quality, albeit comparisons were done on in-store settings. I could tell at 6 feet and less that lettering on the 1080 set had a smoother edge. Take a step or two back and the difference was virtually imperceptible. I'm not sure what additional feature set you get with the step up model, other than 1080p. I believe the price difference was near $500. Not worth it IMO.

My set does "buzz", slightly. You can hear it on mute if you put your ear up to the TV; at 6-8 feet, it disappears to my ear. It is not by any means bothersome to me. I would classify it as typical electronics noise, nothing more.

Stand does not swivel, and TV is not particularly sturdy (wobbles at slightest touch). It is not unsturdy to the point I worry about tipping, but with a 1 year old, I keep her away (not that I wouldn't anyway). It comes with a cord you can fasten to the TV and attach to the wall (which I have not done). Screws that attach the stand are difficult to line up and don't want to go in. I had this problem in set up, and have seen several other reviews that noted the same thing. Stand is not a long term issue, however, as it will be mounted on my wall shortly.

Screen is very reflective IMO. Not mirror like, but close. The 1080p set looked to have less reflection in the store than the 720p. My den has below average sunlight, so it is not a huge problem for me. All the light comes from behind the TV, but I still get some reflection during the day. If you have a windows across from your set or your room gets alot of light, you may want to look elsewhere.

Remote is not very responsive. Have to point it directly at the TV. Not backlit, but didn't expect it to be at this price range.

Despite some qualms, I am very satisfied with the set, other than one flaw which I hope is not a widespread problem with the model. While watching hours of NCAA bball this past weekend on CBS, I noticed frequent judder in commercials and periodically in live action. It was easy to notice in the commercials, as they repeat the same commercials over and over, and it would judder (looks like a frame skip) in the same place every time they aired. I have noticed this on both CBS and NBC broadcasts, but have not had one problem on Fox or ABC. I receive over the air signals with an antenna, but it is not a signal issue. The commercials are the easiest comparison, because certain ones judder in the same spot everytime on CBS and NBC, but are smooth on Fox and ABC. CBS and NBC both broadcast in 1080i, while Fox and ABC broadcast in 720p. Could the scaling mechanism in my set be defective? It doesn't appear to be handling the 1080i signal well. Has anyone else had a problem? I've posted this on other sites and have had no feedback. Best Buy and Samsung were no help. I'm leaning towards returning it for another set, and would like to get another C450. I just don't want to get another one home and have the same problem again. Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks.
post #233 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues96 View Post

I would upgrade your TV later to 3D when they get the price down and have it mastered. I don't think current models are going to give you the same kind of 3d as the true 3d sets. The B450 does something called stereoscopic-3D which my understanding isn't the same thing? Get the c450.

the C450/B450 demo at BB clearly showed that the B450 is a much better TV.

so there is now way I would ever recommend a C450 until an EXPERT does a side by side review.
post #234 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyTV View Post

the C450/B450 demo at BB clearly showed that the B450 is a much better TV.

so there is now way I would ever recommend a C450 until an EXPERT does a side by side review.

I'm guessing this is largely due to the new Energy Star 4.0 (instead of 3.0 on the b450) status the c450 has aquired. I'm led to believe this even moreso because you also mentioned that it was at BB, which has a very bright showroom floor to show off the LCDs. I think the set is still plenty bright - I get a good amount of sunlight in my room and I still keep my cell light somewhere around 8...At night or a dark room I often end up throwing power saving mode on as well because sometimes it seems a little too bright.

Also, the new TV may have its settings dimmer on default than the b450 as well. I was pretty surprised when I first turned on my c450 after auto programming channels and it had the cell light defaulted at "5" instead of "10".
post #235 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbryant100 View Post


Despite some qualms, I am very satisfied with the set, other than one flaw which I hope is not a widespread problem with the model. While watching hours of NCAA bball this past weekend on CBS, I noticed frequent judder in commercials and periodically in live action. It was easy to notice in the commercials, as they repeat the same commercials over and over, and it would judder (looks like a frame skip) in the same place every time they aired. I have noticed this on both CBS and NBC broadcasts, but have not had one problem on Fox or ABC. I receive over the air signals with an antenna, but it is not a signal issue. The commercials are the easiest comparison, because certain ones judder in the same spot everytime on CBS and NBC, but are smooth on Fox and ABC. CBS and NBC both broadcast in 1080i, while Fox and ABC broadcast in 720p. Could the scaling mechanism in my set be defective? It doesn't appear to be handling the 1080i signal well. Has anyone else had a problem? I've posted this on other sites and have had no feedback. Best Buy and Samsung were no help. I'm leaning towards returning it for another set, and would like to get another C450. I just don't want to get another one home and have the same problem again. Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks.


Didn't notice this on OTA material myself, but during "The Dark Knight" on Blu-Ray I see flicker/judder during the full-screen slow camera pans (of buildings and over the city). This is connected through HDMI so I'm getting a 1080p signal, not a 1080i.
post #236 of 1730
What is the difference(s) between a PN42B450 and the PN42C450? I bought my in-laws the "B" and other than the stand being different I see nothing else.
post #237 of 1730
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRasta View Post

What is the difference(s) between a PN42B450 and the PN42C450? I bought my in-laws the "B" and other than the stand being different I see nothing else.

The C series has only one sheet of front glass so it is lighter and has no internal reflections. The C series also uses less power but it is a bit dimmer as a result. (I find it plenty bright for a sunny room however) I'm not very familiar with the B series so there are probably other differences as well.
post #238 of 1730
hey pendragon i have a little situation here. ive been researching plasmas since i happen to be moving this weekend. i was interested in the c450 and i was ready to pull the trigger. then i came across this forum and saw your post about burn in from playing final fantasy 13. now im am all freaked out about making the purchase cause i happen to be playin this game right now ( hour 15) i was anticipating playing it on this 50 inch plasma after moving. but now i am to paranoid to make the purchase. i am not a picture fanatic i just want decent picture and large size. but since i play a lot of 360 this whole burn in thing has got me spooked. should i just go for it? or should i go with the panasonic of similar class? is there a way to prevent that burn in from happening? if i do make the purchase i will post feedback. i just really want your opinion on it first since you have it already. as an average tv person but constant gamer will this tv work for me? and how bad is the flickering blacks you were talking about on the all blank screen? is it so obvious that the average person would notice it and think ( this tv is cheap)? or is it just noticed by the people who have a better understanding of how these tvs should operate. i know i am ranting a little bit. its just that before i did this research i would have been happy with any cheap 50 inch plasma purchase like the x1 our 450. but as i learn more about it i am second guessing everything.. should i pull the trigger on the c450?

p.s. is this game ever gonna let me choose my party memebers?
post #239 of 1730
Thread Starter 
I got a call from the tech center that Samsung set up to contact me. He observed the same lines on a C450 model at a store and contacted Samsung about them and they freely admitted that all their Plasma sets have these lines and that ALL plasma sets have these lines. (That last one made me laugh as I have owned many plasma sets and this is the first with lines like these)

There is nothing to fix because it is by design (sound familiar to Panasonic owners?)

The tech told me that my best bet is to call Samsung again, but this time get to a higher level than the basic service center that answers the phones, probably try their customer service center and explain that this is a very bad design decision and can be seen from a much farther distance than other 720p 50 inch plasma models.

I'll try calling them shortly to see if I can get anywhere with them. (my main goal here is to let them know how stupid this design decision was and how much it degrades the picture quality of the set)
post #240 of 1730
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I got a call from the tech center that Samsung set up to contact me. He observed the same lines on a C450 model at a store and contacted Samsung about them and they freely admitted that all their Plasma sets have these lines and that ALL plasma sets have these lines. (That last one made me laugh as I have owned many plasma sets and this is the first with lines like these)

There is nothing to fix because it is by design (sound familiar to Panasonic owners?)

The tech told me that my best bet is to call Samsung again, but this time get to a higher level than the basic service center that answers the phones, probably try their customer service center and explain that this is a very bad design decision and can be seen from a much farther distance than other 720p 50 inch plasma models.

I'll try calling them shortly to see if I can get anywhere with them. (my main goal here is to let them know how stupid this design decision was and how much it degrades the picture quality of the set)

Pen, do you happen to have a copy of The Dark Knight on Blu Ray? I've noticed flicker/judder during some of the fullscreen panning shots and I'm trying to figure out if its a result of poor 3:2 pulldown, some software/firmware problem with the c450s, or if thats just how the movie shows with most HDTVs at 24fps.
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