which video scaler/processor, Gaming in mind?

Hi

I'm new to the forum so please don't be to hard on me.
I recently got a new TV the "Philips 42PFL7404H/12" and don't get me wrong this thing looks incredible when playing HD stuff, and SD looks ok. but the input lag during gaming is quite bad. I checked a site called digital versus, and it's 32" younger brother scored an average of 33ms input lag, whether this test was done from an interlaced or progressive source is beyond me, but either way i know the input lag is bad from personal experience playing games. so I've been looking for an external unit to try and resolve the problem. I've found a few units that look like they might do the trick but keeping it within budget looks tricky (about £200...$420ish)

The device (whichever sounds best really) would be used with mostly older consoles such as the Saturn, megadrive, PlayStation, PS2 etc all of which running mostly through rgb scart leads.

I've read up on the DVDO edge and it looks like a fantastic little device but it's slightly out of my price range at $500/$600. Then there's the xrgb series which is not only notoriously hard to find, but also (from what i hear) has slightly more lag than the DVDO edge.

I've found a few that look quite good but haven't been able to find much feedback on them, there's the LENKENG LKV391 which i can barely find any information on regarding input lag/latency times, but the thing that drew me to it was the low price and the fact that it's got a scart input directly on the box (convenience)
Then i came across the Atlona AT-LINE-EX which touts such things as "No audio or video delay! Converts in real time" and "less than half a frame delay" which theoretically makes it better than the dvdo edge in the latency/input lag department, only problem is, the user reviews online about the at-line unit aren't that good... overheating issues etc, but if they've sorted out these issues then i know which one I'll be getting.

Any help/info regarding these or other units would be much appreciated as I'm struggling here, also does anyone have any info regarding the VGA input on my model of TV and if using it avoids post processing issues.
thanks, Dom.

Thanks for the reply DonoMan, much appreciated.
through composite rca my ps2 was lagging really badly making some games unplayable, dreamcast through a standard arial lead (scart lead broken unfortunately) made jet set radio unplayable, and ikaruga felt like a was using an arcade stick with an enormous amount of throw. oddly it wasn't all that bad playing a few games on the saturn, through an rgb scart, although still lagging and niggling at the back of my mind. I'm gonna get a friend of mine to come up with his 360 and test out guitar hero through hdmi and see what happens, hopefully theres an improvement with native 1080p sources. i'd love to test the vga input, and see if theres an improvement but i haven't got anything at the minute other than my pc (which i don't have the cable for) that can natively output it.

I checked out the dvdo edge and it does seem to suite my needs in every respect but it's pricey as is the xrgb3 which seems to be the only one i can buy at the minute. just did a quick google on the faroudja omega one and list prices $1000 and up, also seems that it can only output at 480p/576p which would mean my tv has to scale that up to it's native resolution (1080p) further adding lag.

Again, thanks for the help DonoMan.

Does anyone have any information on the scalers i mentioned in my first post, the lenkeng unit is cheap (well cheaper than my other options) and natively has scart onboard which is handy, but i can't find anymore info on it regarding processor/lag etc. Cheers,
Dom.

Hi Fudoh thanks for the response
yeah i agree that the tv is definately to blame. the input lag for the 32" version of the same TV was measured at 33ms, but i don't know if this was measured progressively or not. this seems about right because when i did the calibration test in guitar hero 3 and 4 (through composite) i was averaging about 35/45ms delay, although the test isn't the most accurate it does give a rough indication.

yeah, it has a vga input but i'm yet to make use of it as i have nothing that can natively output VGA, other than my pc, but i'm lacking the vga to vga connector to test it out with at the moment. I'd love to see the results of consoles that can output progressively, like the ps2 or gamecube via component and see if theres an improvement, but again i'd need to get the cables first, cheers.
Dom.

EDIT: looks like i can post these links now, so people can actually see the devices i was talking about in the first post. the LENKENG LKV391
official site Here
and the Atlona AT-LINE-EX official site Here

ok bit of an update, i got the dreamcast vga box and there doesn't appear to be any apparent lag (well not any that i'm aware of) which is fantastic, ikaruga played just like it should, and it really brings through the details in other games that i otherwise would have missed on a standard definition TV (or through scart on my lcd). Only problem, with it being a cheap DC vga box the picture has a wobble running up and down the picture, kind of like interference, it could just be my vga to vga lead being inexpensive also. Shame but theres not really an alternative vga box in that department (other than making my own) to avoid this is suppose.

so i guess this means that there isn't alot of post processing via the vga port on this tv, so i might be in luck with an external scaler/processor

bit of an update, the philips i had developed a fault (or so i was told, by there support) in that it wouldnt go into pc mode via vga, so i reluctantly returned it for a replacement. The new one that i recieved had the same fault (although looking back on it, it doesnt seem to be an actual fault, more of a wide spread firmware problem maybe?) it also had a small black blobbed line in the bottom left corner no bigger than a few milimeters, not only that, but there was severe light pooling issues and bad baclight uniformity, it would seem i got the updated model with the new (and controversial) lower qaulity panel, black levels were bleak enough never mind with this unwanted update. So i sent it back to amazon for a full refund.

So i thought i'd tell you a bit about the new tv i bought (and for £200 cheaper i might add ) it's a toshiba 42RV635D i bought it honestly not expecting much but i got a nice surprise. The blacks are solid and the contrast is great, it really is in a different league to the philips and more so to the panel updated one. it lacks a few things the philips had such as a 100hz motionflow but i had to have that turned of anyway due to the ugly side effects, also the bezel doesn't look as nice as the philips tv but thats understandable at the toshiba's price point. Sound is also better on the toshiba due to having front facing speakers.

Now onto game mode, before i bought the tv i looked everywhere for input lag results and i think i came across one site that reported it at 17ms (although i think this was for the 32/37 model, although i could be wrong)

well i measured the input lag on the toshiba with guitar hero 3 on the ps2 via component cables and got 0ms input lag, i did it three or four times and still the same result. I did the test again with guitar hero IV on tour and got 0ms audio lag and 0ms video lag the same result over two try's. (although these test aren't as accurate as the photograph and crt method they do give a great guidline) the problems i was having with interference on the Dreamcast vga box have gone on the toshiba, there must have been a problem with the vga port on the philips, lack of shielding maybe? also the philips overscanned the image with the dreamcast, meaning i couldn't see the entire MPH clock in sega rally 2 for example. Theres no such problems with the tosh.

i was considoring getting a certain sony bravia (i forget the model) that didn't have any reported input lag via any input, but it also suffered serious backlight bleed and light pooling. i'm glad i went for the tosh as theres no such issues, maybe the success with the tv is down to the DCDi Faroudja? who knows, any i though i tell you about my alternative if any one else is having scaling issues with there philips....sorry about the huge post didn't mean to

ill hopefully have some solid input lag results via the crt comparison in a few weeks, if anyones interested in the results?