The Official Panasonic G20/25 Owner's Discussion Thread [no price talk] - Page 275

The g25 is a 2009 model and the GT25 is a 2010 model. I think the panels are not exactly the same and the GT25 has the faster phosphers. I would go with the GT25 if it were me.

The G20/G25 are 2010 models. I could've sworn they were the same panels as the GT series, and the only difference was that GT had 3D.

Okay I stand corrected on the model year. But the phosphors are different.

yeah no idea about the phosphor stuff. they could've been the new fast-switching phosphor.

anyways, the 2010 models are behind me now... i've finally exchanged my FB-plagued G20 for a 55 ST30.

couldn't be happier. stable black levels, but not only that, the image looked sharper and had a lot more depth/dimensionality than the G20, which i was completely surprised about. didn't expect the PQ to look much different aside from the FB, but it does. not dim at all in Cinema either, and tonnes of shadow detail (maybe too much). e.g. in Ch 37 of TDK, there was a lot of detail on Harvey's bad-side, that i never noticed before.

lovin it so far. in fact, i may have to stay away from these forums so that i don't learn about any other problems that'll distract me from the viewing experience!

Is the st30 really that much better than the gt25/g25's?

Also I know that the VGA helps reduce input lag alot but is it that necessary with a plasma? I use the VGA for the 360 to reduce input lag and it seems the st30 doesnt have a VGA port so would it be necessary?

^^ what do you mean by "better" in your first sentence?

don't get me wrong, the G20 looked great, but i couldn't take the floating blacks. i'm a purist, and a blu ray guy, so i'm want the purest movie experience i can get, with what i can afford.

the G20 looked to have more grain, while the ST looks slightly clearer, and more depth/dimensionality in the picture. it just looked "newer". i don't know how else to describe it.

can't remember about any VGA input on the ST, but i think in any case, they only go up to 1366x768 res, so that's no good.

i'm not a "competitive" gamer per se, but i do have over 40 DAYS logged between MW1 and MW2 online, and i think the plasma is an easy improvement over my old LCD i used to game with. no phosphor trails, and more responsive than the LCD.

I'm more of a gamer than a BR purist but do love watching movies with really good settings.

Just seems that the ST is more of an upgrade as opposed to the GT/G but I think I would be happy with either coming from Olevia.

Do Component inputs in game mode be affected with input lag compared to VGA.

if you can get over the FBs, then the G/GT from 2010 will do you fine, especially for the price.

but go research what FBs look like, before you buy. if you have a copy of TDK on blu ray, bring it with you and watch ch 37 at the store, or a friends place, or somewhere you can get access to a G/GT. that's what i should've done. had i known they'd look the way they did, i would've never touched the G20.

some, like my wife, aren't distracted by it, so it's personal preference as well. at the same time, some sets are worse than others. FWIW, i didn't notice any FBs in my MW2 sessions. i think only super dark games, like Dead Space, would you maybe notice the FBs.

good luck!

Thanks for the help! A few more questions and then you can ignore me haha.

I've looked up some youtube videos of it actually before and it seems weird that the brightness fluctuates.

I was looking at the Toshiba LED's for gaming as well but heard that the edge lit side bleed was bad and have seen some youtube vids of that.

What do you think would be the worse of the two evils?

Also thanks I will actually bring in Dark Knight just to test it out.

lol ok well let me say first before i continue any further, that this is my first plasma.

there are a couple of vids on FBs, which affect 2010 models, and fluctuating brightness, which affects 2011 models.

i haven't seen all of the vids, but there's one of the FB's and a guy playing Dead Space on it. that one does a pretty good job of showing what FB looks like, although may be a bit exaggerated.

the fluctuating brightness issue for the 2011's, i think is shown on a GT30, which i believe is more prone to this issue. CNET reported no issues with this on the ST, and i haven't personally checked for it since my set's so new. in the youtube vid of the GT30, i believe it's a guy showing it on his PC desktop, where he's got a wallpaper background of some landscape and a tree, and some clouds. that vid makes it look pretty bad. probably worse than the FBs on the 2010 models. hopefully i don't see anything like that on my set.

anyways, i actually talked to my wife about this stuff... she was asking me when i got home with the ST, if it was problem free, and i said "not quite", b/c of the possibility of the fluctuating brightness. so then she asked, why i didn't just stick with LCD then, and began to tell her about the typical issues with LCD, like uneven backlight uniformity, and bad viewing angles.

and while CNET tends to knock LCD/LEDs for these two things, at least both of these things are CONSTANT... so they're always there, whether or not you notice it.

the FBs on the other hand.. something dynamic is actually happening during program material, not just on a static image, so it's the fact that the FB issue is dynamic, that it makes it an actual distraction.

i've had 3 LCDs in my time, and none had the perfect uniformity that the G20 did, but none of the LCD's had any kind of picture issue that distracted me, and took me "out" of the movie. the FBs on the other hand, were completely distracting to me, enough for me to warrant exchanging it for a more expensive unit, simply to get rid of the problem.

so consider those two things. something like backlight bleeding that's constant, so while distasteful and unsightly, it may not be very distracting (depending on how bad the bleed is). or something like a dynamic problem like the FBs, which very well can be very distracting, albeit mainly for dark material, and with movies, and not so much with gaming.

that said, i just realized, you're using this new TV mainly for gaming right? like 4-5 hour session type gaming we're talking about? if that's the case, then you really shouldn't be considering a plasma, despite it's lower input lag vs. LCD. i'm already nervous spending 1 hour gaming on my plasma, never mind 4-5. and with the plasma, you can't even game for like the first 100-150 hrs, b/c of the break-in period.

anyways, good luck man, and hope this helps.

So Since I will be gaming more regularly than watching movies I should go for the LED LCD?

Iunderstand what you mean about the dynamic vs constant problem its like a stuffy nose....when you have a stuffy nose your never content with just breathing through your mouth you HAVE to strain to breath through your nose...haha funny analogy.

i think i'm bordering on the extent of my plasma knowledge here!

i really don't know how long you can game on your plasma before you start seeing some pretty bad IR. i never played for more than an hour at a time on my G20, and i saw some faint IR already, although only on a totally black screen, and only noticeable at 3 inches away from the screen.

if you plan on gaming for 4-5 hours straight every now and then, then yeah, go get an LCD. i think it's just easier and safer that way. there are plenty of good LCD's out there that'll give plasma a run for its money, so that's my 2 cents.

good luck.

Allright I know that Burn In is a thing of the past but have heard that IR lasts for a lot longer than one would care to stand.

Would you care to show me in the right direction of a good LED...right now I was looking at the Toshiba line but AVS seems to not like Toshiba.

Hello All,

My P50G25 has been working relatively well since I bought it in mid April 2010. The only problem I had was a high-pitched noise when I first purchased the TV which was fixed quickly and freely by a tech by putting in a new Power Board.

Well, I went to turn it on yesterday after it was off for a couple of days and heard a pop followed by the dreaded 10-blink LED 'error message'.

I unplugged everything from the TV and left it unplugged for about an hour. I turned it back on, with only the power plugged in, and started receiving 4-blinks from the LED.

I called Panasonic and they basically said that even though it was less than 14-months old it is more than 12-months old and isn't covered by the warranty. Naturally, I should have purchased the extended warranty but didn't realize quite how prevalent these issues were.

In any case, I've decided to go the DIY route and ordered both new Power and SC boards for a total of $200. Hopefully this will fix the problem or I will need to drop another $200 on new A and SS boards.

I am going to try to document the fixing procedure so that others with the same problem can be helped.

Naturally, any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Michael

so, had the panny Viera g20 50inch for almost a year now and its still running strong. Has anyone noticed any of the "rising blacks" issue people were expecting to see? I haven't noticed a drop in quality but I haven't done any real tests or anything. I'm thinking of keeping this set for another year then moving on to something slimmer. The PQ of this is great and I honestly couldn't be happier. One thing I have noticed about this plasma is, it handles image retention extremely well. I can play a game for about 3-5 hours and you'll see the image on there slightly like any plasma, but in an hour or two of regular tv its gone. I even went through one of my mmo nerd weeks and didn't leave the computer all week, all day and it still managed to keep all the IR off. I'm very pleased with this purchase and whenever I decide to upgrade I'll definitely be giving Panasonic the first look.

I'm hoping my 42" G25 would do just as well too. It's been over 4 months since I owned it and so far so good. I had some really heavy image-retention that was stuck on the screen for two months but I'm glad it's finally gone and the picture from this plasma line is incredible.

I have the same 50" and I agree 100%. I've had zero issues with this set and the PQ is outstanding. I'll hang-on to it for a bit before I decide to try another Panny.

I have an issue maybe someone can help me with. I have a 42G25. I have had it for probably close to two years now. Lately I have been having a slight problem. When I go to turn it on, instead of the little red light being solid, it is blinking and I get no picture. I have it pluged into a Monster power HTPS7000. Now, after I turn my system off and on, including the TV a number of times, it finally works. But that can't be right. Has anybody else had this happen? Does the blinking power light mean anything?
Thanks for any insight.

How many times does the light blink... examples.
Blink (waits 1/2 sec blinks again waits 1/2 sec blinks again... repeats this 10 times then pauses for 3 sec. or "a longer pause" than the other blinks.
My G20 did that and thankfully it was still under warranty! Mine blinked 10 times with 1/2 sec pauses between each blink 10 times then the pause for 3 sec.
This meant the "TC Board" was bad. (Or so the Tech/guy that fixed it called it the "TC Board")

Depending on how many times the light blinks, that will give you the area or circuit board that has the problem on it.

The TC Board, if I hadn't been under warranty, was around $100. dollars or so...

Hope this helps.

Oh BTW I found a PDF that showed what all the blinking lights meant... But the one I found here wasn't for my Panasonic G20 I guess... cause it was completely off on the blinks for my TV.
Ask around the forums... I'm sure someone is a Tech around here or has that info that is correct... Google it first.

I love it! We had it ISF Calibrated after running it for about 200+ hrs with the slides DNice posted and got it calibrated.

Then the TC Board went out and I called the Tech who Calibrated it and told him what had happened and he talked to his manager and called me back and said, Put another 100 hrs on it and when you have that, Call me and I'll come out and do the ISF Calibration again for Free!
SO THANKFUL HE DID THAT!
First ISF Cal. he used CUSTOM Mode and I thought it looked outstanding! 2nd time he used THX Mode and OMG It's a NEW TV ALL OVER! Just when I thought it couldn't get any better It went and proved me wrong!

I asked him if he had an old reading of the first ISF Cal. to compare any differences with blacks and he said he didn't but added, he hadn't noticed a huge difference between a new g20 and mine...
So maybe breaking it in correctly with slides may help with this... of course I don't have proof any sets are changing with colors but hey I'd love to see the data!

^^I thought THX mode was good enough right out of the bag, is it really worth the hefty price to get it calibrated? I paid a little more than 5 bills for my G25, so if it costs more than 75% of that to get my TV screen looking better than what it is now in THX mode, I don't think it's worth it -- maybe if I owned a $6,000 Pioneer Kuro.

Yes, the blinking pattern is a diagnostic output that provides a technician with a clue as to where (e.g. what board) a malfunction has been detected.

The specific patterns should be listed in the G20/G25 factory service manual that technicians have access to. If you enter "blink code" into the Search This Thread box, you may be able to find some blink codes that owners have mentioned and make a correlation to a specific board.

What happens if you bypass your power conditioner and plug the G25 directly into the wall?

Thanks for the reply. It is a double blink and then a quick pause, and then another double blink and a pause. I have gotten so frustrated that I just shut it off right away and try again. When it happens again, I will let it run for a bit longer and then see what happens. So let's say it is a bad board. Can I get the dealer who I bought the TV from to help me install it or do I have to send the entire TV back to Pansonic.

Thanks to you also hydrogin. I will try and get the specific pattern that is being displayed. I will also try a search feature as well. Thanks guys. Your help is very much appreciated.

Musick7,
My prevoius post was somewhat incorrect. It is a single blink 10 times, at a steady rate, then a very slight longer pause and then it starts again for 10 followed by a slightly longer pause. And when I say slight I mean very slight. It may not even be a full second but it is there.

So now my next question is this. As I asked above, is it possible to have this done in the field by a trained tech, or do I have to ship the TV back to Panasonic for the work to done.
Thanks everyone

Card replacement is done in the field. Worst case scenario would be the tech taking it back to his local shop. Here is a blinking code list for your tv.


12G Models :
X24 / C2 / U2 / S2 / G20 / G25 / VT20 / VT25


Code:

============================================================ =====================
BLINKS PROBLEM CHECK POINT
============================================================ =====================

2 blinks 15v SOS D-Board / P-Board

3 blinks 3.3v SOS D-Board

4 blinks Power SOS P-Board

5 blinks 5v SOS D-Board

6 blinks Driver SOS 1 SC-Board / D-SC FPC
SC Energy Recovery Circuit
D-SC FPC DET

7 blinks Driver SOS 2 SU-Board / SD-Board
SU/SD Connector DET
SU/SD Scan and Logic IC

8 blinks Driver SOS 3 SS-Board / SS2-Board
SS FPC Detect
SS Energy Recovery Circuit

9 blinks Discharge Control SOS D-Board

10 blinks Sub 5V SOS / Sub 3.3v SOS A-Board / SC-Board / SS-Board / P-Board
Sub 9V SOS / Tuner Power SOS
MIHO 3.3 SOS / LED 8v SOS

11 blinks Fan SOS A-Board / Fan

12 blinks Sound SOS A-Board / Speaker

Thanks Donny.
So based on my description you would say that it is the following?
"10 blinks Sub 5V SOS / Sub 3.3v SOS A-Board / SC-Board / SS-Board / P-Board
Sub 9V SOS / Tuner Power SOS
MIHO 3.3 SOS / LED 8v SOS"
That would be great if it were in the field replacement. I bought this from an independent dealer. Do you think I should go through him? You know, have him contact Panasonic? Also, the 10 blink problem has a lot of stuff written for it. Are all those possible issues that it could be? Meaning they are all seperate boards that would need to be checked. Or are all those what is causing the problem and changing one board will fix the entire issue.
Thanks

I had this problem (10 blinking lights). My set was 2 weeks out of warranty, but panasonic was gracious enough to cover it anyway. My set is in the shop right now.

D

Thanks. I hope this painless for me.

I'd just like to chime in here with regard to gaming on the G25 as a PS3 and PC gamer. The majority of modern games do allow one to adjust the opacity of HUDs with few exceptions (*cough*GTA IV*cough*) and, thus, do not induce IR problems. I've recently played many "Just Cause 2" marathon sessions without issues and they looked freakin' great. As far as I'm concerned, the annoyances of LCD display latency would be far worse than the worry of IR on my plasma set. That said, I won't be playing a game like "Psychonauts" on it due to its obnoxious opaque HUD.

Contact Panasonic yourself and they will send a local tech out to take care of your set. When I had a problem with my V10 the chart said it could be one of 3 different cards. The tech just brought all 3 cards and threw them in and it worked. No he didn't find out which one was bad but with Panny footing the bill it saved time.