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The Official Panasonic TC-PXXS2 Owner's Discussion Thread [NO Price talk] - Page 27

post #781 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2442 View Post

damn. that last picture does not look bad at all.

maybe you set your expectations incredibly too high?

I havent really read about anybody being so let down by the PQ on the S2

maybe i did and im sorry for being so negative about the tv results but what sort of gets me upset is that the PQ is there but i feel like im not taking advantage of it if you know what i mean, like for example in ps3 game mode in this picture i took
http://img823.imageshack.us/i/img0099fc.jpg/
the colors pop and thats what i was expecting from a plasma, but when i take the game mode somewhere else such as cable the green looks flourescent and going from that to cinema mode which is darker is hard to change if you know what i mean
post #782 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantiz View Post

I actually like the Cinema picture over the Game picture.

i agree on how it looks but what i mean is that i like the white brightness in game mode more than the cinema one and i want to keep the cinema colors but want to up the white color
post #783 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilillo View Post

i agree on how it looks but what i mean is that i like the white brightness in game mode more than the cinema one and i want to keep the cinema colors but want to up the white color



haha daaaam... at least you know what you want!
post #784 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilillo View Post

i agree on how it looks but what i mean is that i like the white brightness in game mode more than the cinema one and i want to keep the cinema colors but want to up the white color

You may need to have a proffessional calibration to get the results your looking for.
post #785 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2442 View Post

haha daaaam... at least you know what you want!

again, i am sorry for asking too many questions and being critical

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantiz View Post

You may need to have a proffessional calibration to get the results your looking for.

thats what i was thinking, but also would you recommend doing dnices offset setting on the non warm settings? will it have an equal effect as if it was warm? or was that just especifically for warm setting?
post #786 of 2271
The reasoning for warm, is gives you as close to possible 6500k color temp. You then make the grayscale adjustments to that. So no, his settings would not be as accurate in normal or cool, because they were done in warm. Other color temps would require more adjustments in some areas, because the color temp is cooler.
post #787 of 2271
Hi all

from mantiz
[I'm not sure what you mean by cloudy because mine is very clear in cinema mode on all input sources PS3, HDDVD & Directv hd the only channels that may seem a bit cloudy or should I say fuzzy are the non hd channels but even some of them look amazingly clear. I have both my brightness and contrast below the 70 mark and it seems pretty bright to me and the colors have good pop to them nothing seems bland or dull at all. ]

I have the same feeling about my 54"S2 as Pilillo. I move up from a 720P
panasonic and I was looking for a clearer picture. More pop,colors that are
solid and brighter. I base this feeling on a 40" Insigna that my friend has.
His 40" plasma has the best picture I have seen on any plasma.
Is this a function of screen size. I also have a 34" Sony CRT HDTV that has
a great picture. I like the bright picture on a well calibrated LCD, but the
viewing angle problem and the motion blur has always stop me from buying
one.

ElwayLite {Nothing. One thing about larger screens, is they'll make a provider go from lovely on a 40", to fugly on a 65". Compression shows as you increase screen size. For instance, Directv looked better than Dish on my 55", but on my 32", they both looked great.}

Another problem might be what Elwaylite is saying about compression.
everything looks great on my 42"

I thinking about returning this set for a 50" G25. I am using Cinema and
d-nice's setting, I did not adjusted the SM. What am I doing wrong?
The set looks great with a Blu-ray source but the other sources are lacking.

AW
post #788 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaller View Post

Hi all

from mantiz
[I'm not sure what you mean by cloudy because mine is very clear in cinema mode on all input sources PS3, HDDVD & Directv hd the only channels that may seem a bit cloudy or should I say fuzzy are the non hd channels but even some of them look amazingly clear. I have both my brightness and contrast below the 70 mark and it seems pretty bright to me and the colors have good pop to them nothing seems bland or dull at all. ]

I have the same feeling about my 54"S2 as Pilillo. I move up from a 720P
panasonic and I was looking for a clearer picture. More pop,colors that are
solid and brighter. I base this feeling on a 40" Insigna that my friend has.
His 40" plasma has the best picture I have seen on any plasma.
Is this a function of screen size. I also have a 34" Sony CRT HDTV that has
a great picture. I like the bright picture on a well calibrated LCD, but the
viewing angle problem and the motion blur has always stop me from buying
one.

ElwayLite {Nothing. One thing about larger screens, is they'll make a provider go from lovely on a 40", to fugly on a 65". Compression shows as you increase screen size. For instance, Directv looked better than Dish on my 55", but on my 32", they both looked great.}

Another problem might be what Elwaylite is saying about compression.
everything looks great on my 42"

I thinking about returning this set for a 50" G25. I am using Cinema and
d-nice's setting, I did not adjusted the SM. What am I doing wrong?
The set looks great with a Blu-ray source but the other sources are lacking.

AW

good to know im not the only one, have you tried settings aside from warm? such as cool?, i completely agree about the insignia, my rents have a 32 " i believe and the PQ in it is amazing and it has never been calibrated, i think thats the main reason why i got my hopes up so much o this s2 but its not delivering =(
post #789 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaller View Post

Hi all

from mantiz
[I'm not sure what you mean by cloudy because mine is very clear in cinema mode on all input sources PS3, HDDVD & Directv hd the only channels that may seem a bit cloudy or should I say fuzzy are the non hd channels but even some of them look amazingly clear. I have both my brightness and contrast below the 70 mark and it seems pretty bright to me and the colors have good pop to them nothing seems bland or dull at all. ]

I have the same feeling about my 54"S2 as Pilillo. I move up from a 720P
panasonic and I was looking for a clearer picture. More pop,colors that are
solid and brighter. I base this feeling on a 40" Insigna that my friend has.
His 40" plasma has the best picture I have seen on any plasma.
Is this a function of screen size. I also have a 34" Sony CRT HDTV that has
a great picture. I like the bright picture on a well calibrated LCD, but the
viewing angle problem and the motion blur has always stop me from buying
one.

ElwayLite {Nothing. One thing about larger screens, is they'll make a provider go from lovely on a 40", to fugly on a 65". Compression shows as you increase screen size. For instance, Directv looked better than Dish on my 55", but on my 32", they both looked great.}

Another problem might be what Elwaylite is saying about compression.
everything looks great on my 42"

I thinking about returning this set for a 50" G25. I am using Cinema and
d-nice's setting, I did not adjusted the SM. What am I doing wrong?
The set looks great with a Blu-ray source but the other sources are lacking.

AW


The picture looks great on blu ray/ps3 and terrible on cable is due to your providers compression. I find it very hard to believe any Insignia set is going to producer a better picture than panny plasmas.
post #790 of 2271
could it be because maybe but maybe the slides didnt run for enough time? i had mine running for 122 hours
does it need more?

and if i go to my cable box user settings (comcast) by turning off the box then pressing menu and change the hdmi/YPbPr output to 720p from 1080i will that make it better? should i move the video sharpness to 1 from the default 3?
post #791 of 2271
No.
post #792 of 2271
Please excuse what may be a basic question from a new TC-P50S2 owner.

Is there something inherently different about the Standard, Vivid, Cinema and Custom settings that makes one a better starting point than another for adjusting the settings to your own liking? That is: can't I just duplicate all the user-adjustable settings from Cinema (for example) into Custom so that Custom starts out like Cinema . . . then adjust further from there? Aren't Standard, Vivid and Cinema just names for collections of pre-adjusted variable settings?

For what it's worth, everyone in our family prefers Cinema mode. And this afternoon, I stumbled on the 1 and 2 HD image settings, and selected 2, which gives the full image and looks a tad sharper. HD 1 zooms by a few percent to eliminate noise at the border of some broadcast images. But, frankly, that seems stupid to me. Why should I settle for a slightly degraded image as the way to avoid looking at edge noise that should be the broadcaster's responsibility to eliminate?

Another question: Is there any break-in period recommended? If, so, what is the recommended user practice?

Thanks.

Ken
post #793 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenluvstv View Post

Please excuse what may be a basic question from a new TC-P50S2 owner.

Is there something inherently different about the Standard, Vivid, Cinema and Custom settings that makes one a better starting point than another for adjusting the settings to your own liking? That is: can't I just duplicate all the user-adjustable settings from Cinema (for example) into Custom so that Custom starts out like Cinema . . . then adjust further from there? Aren't Standard, Vivid and Cinema just names for collections of pre-adjusted variable settings?

No, they all have different starting points. I would also love to be able to start them all from Cinema and then tweak per input, but that's just not possible, even with service menu adjustments.

Quote:


For what it's worth, everyone in our family prefers Cinema mode. And this afternoon, I stumbled on the 1 and 2 HD image settings, and selected 2, which gives the full image and looks a tad sharper. HD 1 zooms by a few percent to eliminate noise at the border of some broadcast images. But, frankly, that seems stupid to me. Why should I settle for a slightly degraded image as the way to avoid looking at edge noise that should be the broadcaster's responsibility to eliminate?

I agree, although we only have one channel (the local ABC) that broadcasts the data noise on their HD signal. HD 1 exists to put in some overscan for compatibility with stations that are still broadcasting the noise.

Quote:


Another question: Is there any break-in period recommended? If, so, what is the recommended user practice?

Thanks.

Ken

It's generally accepted on this board that running solid color slides for 100 hours is enough break-in. Otherwise, just keep the contrast at normal levels and enjoy! Panasonic says that there is no reason to break-in the set and that it is ready to go out of the box. The reason people run the slides on here is to get more consistent results from shared picture settings.
post #794 of 2271
Jared2442
{The picture looks great on blu ray/ps3 and terrible on cable is due to your providers compression. I find it very hard to believe any Insignia set is going to producer a better picture than panny plasmas. }

I was surprise at the Insignia picture also.We watch NCIS @ his house on Tuedays and I was in denial for a whole season
I read that the Insignia was a rebadged Samsung. I dont know that as a fact.

Thanks for the reply
post #795 of 2271
So where do you get solid color slides? I'm assuming they're jpg images you load on SD.


I remember that when I got my first (recently stolen) Panasonic plasma in 2006, people used to recommend using Discovery HD Theater for the break-in period -- both for the color and movement and the absence of a network logo that could be burned in. We don't get that station on Verizon FIOS.
post #796 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenluvstv View Post

Please excuse what may be a basic question from a new TC-P50S2 owner.

Is there something inherently different about the Standard, Vivid, Cinema and Custom settings that makes one a better starting point than another for adjusting the settings to your own liking? That is: can't I just duplicate all the user-adjustable settings from Cinema (for example) into Custom so that Custom starts out like Cinema . . . then adjust further from there? Aren't Standard, Vivid and Cinema just names for collections of pre-adjusted variable settings?

For what it's worth, everyone in our family prefers Cinema mode. And this afternoon, I stumbled on the 1 and 2 HD image settings, and selected 2, which gives the full image and looks a tad sharper. HD 1 zooms by a few percent to eliminate noise at the border of some broadcast images. But, frankly, that seems stupid to me. Why should I settle for a slightly degraded image as the way to avoid looking at edge noise that should be the broadcaster's responsibility to eliminate?

Another question: Is there any break-in period recommended? If, so, what is the recommended user practice?

Thanks.

Ken

The different modes definitely are different in way that cannot be adjusted out. The biggest difference that I have seen are:
  • Although the gamma in Cinema mode is a touch too low, it's WAY too high in the other modes, leading to crushed blacks. However, I suspect that the slightly too low gamma in Cinema mode is what pilillo is describing as cloudy or milky... true black is still true black on (properly set) Cinema mode, but the near blacks are rising a bit too high too fast and causing them to look too gray. Although this could be better, its much less of an evil than the crushed blacks of a too high gamma.
  • Non-Cinema modes are significantly more noisier/grainier.
  • Cinema mode (at least on my S2) does not suffer from floating blacks, which the others do.
Regarding the Size 1 versus Size 2... Size 2 does not pass 1080i/p through any scaling process... the overscan of Size 1 is created by taking 95% of the source's pixels and "stretching" them to 100%. Unfortunately, you can't really stretch a pixel... its a fixed size... so the resulting dithering blurs the picture. It's the exact same effect you get on a PC when you output to a flat panel display in other than the display's native resolution. There is nothing you can do about it other than to use Size 2.
post #797 of 2271
So I went to Best Buy AGAIN today, I think I talked myself into getting a slightly bigger size. I'm thinking of getting the 46S2 now. I know Blu Ray and Xbox 360 will be sharp and clear on this TV, but I don't know about broadcast cable. Would getting the 46" make artifacts that much more visible over the 42"?
post #798 of 2271
Id go with the size, Directv looks fine on my 58". You enjoy it more during blu-rays.
post #799 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

So I went to Best Buy AGAIN today, I think I talked myself into getting a slightly bigger size. I'm thinking of getting the 46S2 now. I know Blu Ray and Xbox 360 will be sharp and clear on this TV, but I don't know about broadcast cable. Would getting the 46" make artifacts that much more visible over the 42"?

I agree go for size. In the range your looking at I find it hard to believe any 1080P tv is going to look any different at 46".

Personally if you think 46" will work , try the 50". If the wallet permits.
post #800 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

So I went to Best Buy AGAIN today, I think I talked myself into getting a slightly bigger size. I'm thinking of getting the 46S2 now. I know Blu Ray and Xbox 360 will be sharp and clear on this TV, but I don't know about broadcast cable. Would getting the 46" make artifacts that much more visible over the 42"?

How far away will you be sitting? At 10' you won't benefit from 1080p at those sizes. If this TV is going to be your bedroom TV in a couple years (if your other thread is related) then save some money and get a 720p model and then get a nicer 50"+ model in a few years.
post #801 of 2271
I recently bought the Samsung LN46C630 and returned one because the bleed & clouding was bad (horrible at 25 degrees off axis). I'm about to return the second for the same reason and am considering switching to the Panasonic TC-P46S2. It will be in the basement with some daylight windows about 60 degrees off the center of the TV.

This TV will primarily be used for Blu Ray and standard def. DVDs (probably 1/3 Blu-Ray and 2/3 standard def), and for playing Wii. Seating distance is 8-10 feet.

I am curious about the fading blacks that have been reported. My main question is, is the problem all that noticeable with the naked eye? And, how much different is the faded black when compared to an LCD such as the Samsung LN46C630. I'm not a videophile and won't be doing professional calibration.

My second concern is with screen reflections, but I think I'll be OK there.

I apologize if this question has been answered. I did search the forums and found reports of fading blacks but could not get a feel for how noticeable it is.

Thanks,
John
post #802 of 2271
So I noticed Amazon has this picture displayed as the TC-P58S2.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._AA1000_.jpg

However when I saw the TV in stores @ Best Buy it didn't look like that at all...

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US...9904681_ra.jpg

though I did see a smaller TV that had the same design. Did Amazon just screw up? I'm guessing the TV doesn't have the blue at the bottom and all the tiny holes around the bezel?

Anyway the TV should be here on Tuesday... I ordered it for a friend who I was helping TV shop. Like always Best Buy customer service was awful... when we first went in one guy in the TV department asked if we needed help and I asked him if I could see the remote to the TV and he just ignored me... clearly showing he was only saying what he was told to be said and not actually trying to help anyone... at least not us. I had to ask about 3-4 different times before I found someone who could actually help me. Glad I decided to sign up for an Amazon store card... saved him at least $150 and a convienced him to invest in a decent surround system all for under $1,800 with the cables. He then went out and spent $500 on curtins so there wouldn't be awful glare on the TV (since he went with the 58" that doesn't have the anti-glare filter on the screen). You don't know how hard it was to convience him to save $800 on this TV as opposed to a smaller LED LCD. He even admitted that the Panny looked just as good if not better, but didn't decide until one of our friends showed up and said the same thing, followed by the final BB employee that also agreed. Stop placedo effect going around in the LCD camp these days.
post #803 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmakr View Post

I recently bought the Samsung LN46C630 and returned one because the bleed & clouding was bad (horrible at 25 degrees off axis). I'm about to return the second for the same reason and am considering switching to the Panasonic TC-P46S2. It will be in the basement with some daylight windows about 60 degrees off the center of the TV.

This TV will primarily be used for Blu Ray and standard def. DVDs (probably 1/3 Blu-Ray and 2/3 standard def), and for playing Wii. Seating distance is 8-10 feet.

I am curious about the fading blacks that have been reported. My main question is, is the problem all that noticeable with the naked eye? And, how much different is the faded black when compared to an LCD such as the Samsung LN46C630. I'm not a videophile and won't be doing professional calibration.

My second concern is with screen reflections, but I think I'll be OK there.

I apologize if this question has been answered. I did search the forums and found reports of fading blacks but could not get a feel for how noticeable it is.

Thanks,
John

If you won't be watching in a dark room (like at night with the lights off), then you shouldn't have any issue with the floating blacks unless you are really looking for them. Rising blacks is more an issue with the 2009 models (S1, G10, etc.).

You should be fine with reflections, unless there's a lot of direct light on the TV. The reflections on the S2 are no worse than an old CRT TV.
post #804 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

How far away will you be sitting? At 10' you won't benefit from 1080p at those sizes. If this TV is going to be your bedroom TV in a couple years (if your other thread is related) then save some money and get a 720p model and then get a nicer 50"+ model in a few years.

The furthest away I will be is 6'
post #805 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmakr View Post

I recently bought the Samsung LN46C630 and returned one because the bleed & clouding was bad (horrible at 25 degrees off axis). I'm about to return the second for the same reason and am considering switching to the Panasonic TC-P46S2. It will be in the basement with some daylight windows about 60 degrees off the center of the TV.

This TV will primarily be used for Blu Ray and standard def. DVDs (probably 1/3 Blu-Ray and 2/3 standard def), and for playing Wii. Seating distance is 8-10 feet.

I am curious about the fading blacks that have been reported. My main question is, is the problem all that noticeable with the naked eye? And, how much different is the faded black when compared to an LCD such as the Samsung LN46C630. I'm not a videophile and won't be doing professional calibration.

My second concern is with screen reflections, but I think I'll be OK there.

I apologize if this question has been answered. I did search the forums and found reports of fading blacks but could not get a feel for how noticeable it is.

Thanks,
John

The floating blacks issue seem to be a problem on every video mode EXCEPT Cinema, which is what most people here use. It is more prevalent, it seems, on the G20/G25 than it is on the S2.

Having said that, most people don't notice them, and even when they do, its usually because they go looking for it.
post #806 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

The farthest away I will be is 6'

minimum size for the average human eye to benefit from a 1080p screen at 6' is 49". This is based on visual acuity. If you have better than 20/20 vision, then you can still benefit with a smaller screen.

http://www.hdhes.com/tv/hdtvviewdistance.aspx

If you are indeed planning on upgrading in a year or two, I'd serously consider a 720p set to save money. Sunday's newspaper had an ad for the 50" 720p Panasonic plasma for under $700, while the 1080p S2 is still going for $1000-$1100. In two years, 1080p plasmas will be dirt cheap and you'll be able to get a much bigger screen.
post #807 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

minimum size for the average human eye to benefit from a 1080p screen at 6' is 49". This is based on visual acuity. If you have better than 20/20 vision, then you can still benefit with a smaller screen.

http://www.hdhes.com/tv/hdtvviewdistance.aspx

If you are indeed planning on upgrading in a year or two, I'd serously consider a 720p set to save money. Sunday's newspaper had an ad for the 50" 720p Panasonic plasma for under $700, while the 1080p S2 is still going for $1000-$1100. In two years, 1080p plasmas will be dirt cheap and you'll be able to get a much bigger screen.

Since when did this forum become a spell checkers convention?

The main reason for going for the S2 over the C2 or even the U2 for that matter is better AR filter and better blacks, 1080p had little to do with the decision. Everytime I've seen the C2, it was like looking into a mirror. I could get dressed in the morning using that TV.
post #808 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

Sunday's newspaper had an ad for the 50" 720p Panasonic plasma for under $700, while the 1080p S2 is still going for $1000-$1100.

Check BestBuy and Sears online. Prices are already lower than that. Plus, if you buy with a Sears card, you get another 10% off. If you open a Sears card, I believe you get another $15 as a credit on your first bill, bringing the cost of the 50-inch S2 below $800! That's what I did Monday.
post #809 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

Since when did this forum become a spell checkers convention?

The main reason for going for the S2 over the C2 or even the U2 for that matter is better AR filter and better blacks, 1080p had little to do with the decision. Everytime I've seen the C2, it was like looking into a mirror. I could get dressed in the morning using that TV.

I made it as subtle as I could. Just a pet peeve of mine. :P

You seem like you've done your research. I agree that the AR filter is definitely worth the increased cost. It's the reason I chose Panasonic over LG and Samsung as well. LG has no filter at the $1000 pricepoint, and Samsung's was there but it didn't do a very good job.
post #810 of 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenluvstv View Post

Check BestBuy and Sears online. Prices are already lower than that. Plus, if you buy with a Sears card, you get another 10% off. If you open a Sears card, I believe you get another $15 as a credit on your first bill, bringing the cost of the 50-inch S2 below $800! That's what I did Monday.

When I got my 50S2 at Sears, they were doing a combo deal with a free blu-ray player, 10% off with Sears card (which I already had), and 50% off delivery. I ended up getting the TV and blu-ray player delivered to my house for $815 plus tax.

Non-sale prices are still up at $1000 though.
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