The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 52

I'm on your side. I don't know if a TV can accept cable AND OTA unless it has two rf inputs. I guess I'm lucky that there is no OTA here to complicate my life. I need an outdoor antenna to get FM.

I will start to worry after TV builders stop supporting cable tuners OR stop supporting OTA tuners. But I'll probably be dead before that happens. Considering that cable companies could drop analog now and there are more OTA channels than 20 years ago, I'll find better things to worry about. Like if they start to scramble my basic cable like TNT, USA, SyFy I will need to buy another TiVo.

The vast majority of stereo owners listen to multiple inputs. But note that most of these sources are composite (RCA, etc.) inputs, not antenna inputs. My AVR has but one FM antenna input, even though FM signals could be obtained by an antenna, or by hooking up the cable service. Cables must be swapped to switch between the two. I have a BD player, DVD player, VCR, DVR, etc., all connected to my TV without switching cables - just like your above example of CDs, LPs, and MP3s connected to your stereo.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

I disagree with your argument. First, when I select "TUNER" on my AVR, I receive FM HD/RDDS from an external radio. When I select "CD" I get the output from my Blu-ray with serious DSP applied. When I select "BR/DVD" I get the same source (BR) but with no DSP. I never need to swap cables yet one button enables different signals with different processing.

On my newer TV I select "16" and get cable "16". On my DVR I select "16" once to get OTA and select "16" again to get cable. No cable changing or A-B switch needed.

My TV only has four HDMI inputs. It left me five short. So the TV does the apples (1080i) and the AVR does the oranges (480i,1080p, SACD). I have several HD tuners that are back in their boxes. Retired now. Things change.

If I had both OTA and cable, I would not use an A-B switch. I would buy a tuner/STB for one or both. With a Premier I don't need to make the choice.

Huh???

No one is asking for two seperate Antenna inputs, but simply one Antenna input and one Cable input. The fact that they both happen to be RF is irrelevent. That is what the Tivo Premier has now, and hopefully will always have. That is what most all TV's had up until the past few years, when all of a sudden "cheaper" became "better".

You speak as though the cheaper = better equation was a recent invention. Manufacturers always look for cost-cutting measures that customers will tolerate, and the situation is simply that most people don't need both antenna and cable inputs, so TV sets with only one RF connection have sold well. Cable generally provides both local and specialty channels, so the average cable customer has no reason to connect an antenna. The reasons for using both sources that are relatively common around here, like OTA's superior HD on local channels, aren't the kind of reasons that would spur average viewers to deal with using multiple content sources.

The "average cable customer" is happy with the 250 to 320Gb offering in the DVR that the CableCo's give them. The average AVS user wants 1 or 2Tb. I guess I'm an above average AVS user because I want two RF inputs.

Not everything should be built for the lowest common denominator.

The "average cable customer" isn't aware that often OTA antenna is a better choice for local/regional channels, only to be supplemented by the specialty channels that cable provides, along with internet. I like the way TiVo nicely integrates both antenna and cable in one box without the use of an A/B switch, or additional HDMI tuner connections.

I'm not defending the practice, but it is unrealistic to expect hardware manufacturers not to cut corners to save a little money. They will omit features that the majority of their customers don't demand to increase their profit margins. Welcome to capitalism.

So? When I press BD on my TV's remote (what is BR?) I get my Blu-ray player. If I press DVR, I get the DVR. If I press VCR, I get the VCR. No wire switching. Same as my AVR. I fail to see your point.

I bet the new "Elite" has no "antenna" input. Neither of my 7-year old Sony Bravia TVs have dual coaxial inputs. I challenge your statement that "most all TV's had up until the past few years" had dual coaxial inputs.

The TiVo Premiere can use both inputs at the same time. A TV cannot (unless it has two displays.) Most people only care to use a single coaxial input. Those that feel the need to have two can pay the expense to do so. I, for one, would not appreciate paying the extra $$ that dual inputs and circuitry require.

Then buy a TV with both inputs.

Wow. Should we watch for the eSata port to disappear as well? I doubt that Joe Sixpack uses it, or even knows what it is.

Only Joe Six Pack would use the eSATA port on a TiVo. Those that know better would just upgrade the internal HDD to 2TB.

Not true. I know better yet I chose to go the eSATA route rather than open the case and void my warranty. 3+ yr later and both internal and external drives are chugging along flawlessly.

Agreed. Using a 1TB eSATA and no problems. Voiding the warranty to gain only 1/2 TB, plus the extreme ease of adding an external HD made this the obvious choice for me.

In my bedroom there is a Sharp LCD-37D5U, circa 2004, with three RF inputs.
One for OTA ATSC and two for cable (analog and digital), seamlessly integrated on the remote to switch among those.
Also one HDMI, two Component and one composite, all in use.
It is a basic 720p TV but has TVGOS which is not enabled.

OTOH my LG 55LH90 in my HT only has the one RF input connected to an antenna although never used since the Tivo Premiere is used for OTA and cable connected to an iScan Duo along with 7 other HDMI sources including one S-Video one Composite and one Component.
A Sony HDD250 and Silicon Dust HDHomerun provide additional recording capacity.

Adding extra capacity to a TiVo is perhaps the most common user modification for the device, so it's unlikely that the capability for external storage would be removed.

And you know this how?

This whole discussion was started because of the stoopid survey TiVo sent me by email last week, which didn't allow me to give a complete assessment of how I use the three Premier XL's I have. How can they know what the most common usage is if they don't ask the right questions? Maybe I'm the only one in the forum that cares to use OTA in combination with Cable. If so, that's fine. But I would hope that TiVo might like to know that the reason I didn't buy three Elites is because they don't support OTA. And if the Premier didn't have two RF inputs I probably wouldn't have bought them either. Sure, I'm only one meatball who thinks OTA is important. But I'm also one meatball that bought three of their machines . . .

I use my TiVo premiere for OTA as well. So you are not the only meatball. I wish the Elites had 4 OTA tuners as well. I certainly would have purchased one if they did, instead of the Premiere XL.

I did say "perhaps". Besides, what other modifications can a TiVo user make to the system other than increasing the storage capacity, due to the system's hardware restrictions? Since storage capacity is a significant component of a DVR's functionality and eSATA provides a way for TiVo owners to increase their unit's storage capacity without voiding their warranties, it seems unlikely that TiVo would remove that functionality. It would likely inconvenience far more users than removing the dual RF inputs, which TiVo has apparently already done in their latest models.

TiVo knows exactly how many boxes are connected to OTA and/or cable. Just like they knwo how often you fast forward or skip. and whether the hard drive a higher capacity..

I guess I don't understand then... why do they bother asking me "How do you receive your programming: Cable, Satellite, Fios, or OTA" if they already know the answer? Just to P me off?

Most surveys also ask the same question multiple times, just worded differently.

I'm thinking about buying an Elite. Do I need to be worried about my cable company, Charter, using SDV?

BTW, is this the appropriate thread to talk about the Elite or is their another "official" Elite thread?

If we are to believe TiVo - they have this information, but it's anonymous. So they don't know who receives cable, OTA, etc.... they just know how many.

I suspect it was asked innocently, but pushed some sort of button on you. If I can suggest this in a kindly manner, you've been a little over the top on the topic. We all have topics that turn us a little rabid (mine is the removal of s-video output), so I don't mean my comment to be critical.

My take on the question is that you need to tell them that OTA is how you receive your programming. Otherwise how will they know that it is important to you? 99% of the people are going to answer something other than OTA.

99% seems a bit high. Or should I say I would be surprised if only 1% are OTA users.

Where have I heard these numbers before? [joke]

Yes, you're right. The manner in which the question was asked in the TiVo survey did push some of the wrong buttons. And I did consider just answering "OTA". But that would be incomplete, since the correct answer is "Both". "Both" implies that dual RF inputs are required, and also says "Please don't travel down the path of the TV manufacturers in recent years".

The other thing that pushes my buttons is the attitude of several members of this forum. That being "Most people don't require this capability, so neither should you". I understand that not everyone cares that OTA image quality is superior. And not everyone lives where there are hurricanes, severe thunderstorms, falling trees, tornados, or earthquakes that can put out cable service for weeks at a time. Not to mention the times when "who knows why it's out".

Must additional (external) storage be purchased exclusively from Tivo? Or can I use my own drive and connect it to the eSata port? Thanks in advance

You're fine discussing the Elite here, The Elite is also a Series 4 TiVo. The other Elite thread does not have much action. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1366539

SDV should not be an issue, The Cisco Tuning Adapter has worked very well for me. Although, I did get one that was defective, and demanded a new one still in plastic wrap.

I myself am waiting to purchase an Elite until after the next SW update coming this spring (late April/May). Currently there are just too many reports of issues with the Elite, rebooting, loss of channels, recordings not occurring. Hopefully a SW update will fix the reported bugs.
Start following the TiVo Forums: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?

I am also waiting to see what the new TiVo streaming IP-STB will offer for Whole Home.

My experience with the Premiere w/ my 2TB HDD upgrade has been almost flawless. I can highly recommend the old Base Premiere 320GB -TCD746320, which you can get for as low as $50 plus $500 lifetime service or $14.99/mo