The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 57

TiVo Premiere Elite DVR, $299.99 plus $5 shipping
Here it is again, Glad I took advantage last time. This is a no brainer.
08/02/12 or until sold out
http://tech.woot.com/offers/tivo-premiere-elite-dvr-3

Is this the model which will be compatible with their upcoming extender?

Questions surrounding the upcoming TiVo IP-STB Extender are mostly speculation at this point. But at launch TiVo has said it will only work with a paired 4-Tuner Elite/XL4 or Q.

I would expect at a later date that the SW would be updated to work with any Premiere 2 or 4 Tuner. If not this IP-STP would have a very limited retail market, not to mention how many pissed off Premiere owners there would be. Hopefully the SW can be written to act as a networked tuner, rather than a static tuner. Even if it can't at least it could be used as a playback device only plus Netflix, Hulu, etc.
http://placeshiftingenthusiasts.com/more-information-on-the-tivo-stream-and-ip-stb/
Edited by Bryan_CoxPHX - 8/3/12 at 2:58am

Supposedly the live TV tuner allocation is optional with a paired Elite/XL4, so you can use an IP STB simply to stream recorded shows if you want without having to dedicate one of the Elite's tuners to it. Makes me wonder why it wouldn't work with a 2-tuner Premiere out of the box, just don't offer the live TV pairing option.

But this is Tivo, where a lot of stuff doesn't make sense software-wise.

I am going to post this news here as the Tivo gets its guide data form Tribune. Last month, July 13th 2012, Tribunes bankruptcy was finalized. Tribune is now in the hands of its 3 senior debt holders. Most likely in the future Tribune will be broken up in pieces and sold to repay its debts which includes Tribune Media Services.
Here is a link to the article:
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/60776/tribune-bankruptcyexit-plan-gets-ok

This does not mean that the guide service will stop but probably things will change once a new owner buys it. I suspect Tribunes only guide competitor, Rovi, to be the top bidder for the guide service as they will get the business from Tivo, Direct TV, Windows Media Center, Moxi, and some cable operators. If this happens then Rovi will be the only guide service in the United States.
Again it is only speculation as to what and when things will happen but don't be surprised if changes are announced for the guide in the future.

As long as the guide data is accurate, I don't care who provides it.

I think the more strategic issue is if we go down to one guide provider, might we at some point go down to zero? If a service is hugely profitable, providers would be tripping over themselves to get a piece. If there is not enough/no money to be had, the last provider may stop offering the service.

It also means that with just one provider, if they mess up the programming schedules, everyone gets screwed, including cable, satellite, Windows MC, and TiVo subscribers.

I suspect the Department of Justice would take a strong interest in any attempt by Rovi to buy Tribune Media Services. Having only one supplier screams MONOPOLY. Users of the data are likely to strongly object to any business combination that reduces competition.

So what would be the difference between Tribune being bought by Rovi vs. Tribune shutting its doors, liquidating its assets and disappearing. Either scenario leaves just Rovi. There is nothing anti-competitive about Tribune going bankrupt on its own.

If the Tribune is in such bad shape then no one will buy it and they will be unable to get financing to continue. Hope thats not the case. If Rovi is the only provider and they start raising their prices, I would expect Tivo and other subscribers to take or threaten legal action.

There is an alternative guide data provider called FYI Television and they provide the FiOS guide data and TitanTV, so there is competition. I could see either Rovi or FYI buying Tribune Media Services.

I don't think Rovi has any money right now. They are trying to lauch the "TotalGuide" and drop TVGOS. Their stock has gone down a lot this year also. I don't know anything about FYI but do like TitanTV.

Monopoly pricing too. How about $20 a month for DVR service? $25? $30?

Have put off getting a TIVO because of the negatives around multi-stream cards and tuning adapters. After a TIVO technician pointed to the missing USB connection between the tuning adapter and TIVO, the TIVO Premiere XL4 has functioned perfectly. Hard to believe that the TW technician didn't know about the USB connection. Only two connections and he missed one? At any rate, I'm just writing to say how happy we are with the 4 tuners and two terabytes. We have a 6 yr. old Sony front projector and it appears that the TIVO upconversion provides a better picture. This is surprising to me, but I suppose that the chips in the TIVO are several generations later. In addition, the surround sound is better from the TIVO than from the 8300HD. I know it is just a pass-through but the sound is definitely better. Reminds me of years ago when I stopped passing the sound through a VCR and there was a significant improvement.

Here are some links to the clients of each guide provider.

Rovi:
http://www.rovicorp.com/company/about/customers.htm

Tribune Media Services:
http://www.tribunemediaservices.com/about-us/clients/48190892.html

FYI Television:
http://fyitelevision.com/about-us/our-clients.aspx

I suspect that both FYI and Tribune are getting their metadata (guide listings) from Rov,i as Rovi has the largest data base for listings in the world. It has been built up over a almost 60 year existence of the TV Guide Magazine. I would't doubt that they pay some type of fee to Rovi for the metadata and also some licensing fees related to numerous patents for EPG and IPG guide features.

Tribune got itself in trouble when Sam Zell did a leveraged buyout of Tribune and the company ended up owing about 788 million dollars more than it was worth. Most of Tribunes divisions are profitable and this is only a chapter 11 bankruptcy, which is a reoganization of its business by its creditors. A chapter 7 would be a liquidation of its assets. Rovis current stock value will not prevent them from purchasing Tribune Media Services if the opportunity becomes available especially if it will boost Rovis long term earnings potential.

As for Government intervention, I find that highly unlikely because the Government, since Reagan, has not stopped the consolidation of content ownership (broadcast networks, cable & satellite channels, movie studios, etc.) into the hands of five or six large corporations. Even the local TV and radio affiliates have fallen into the ownership of corporations since Reagan. This trend will continue if Romney wins the White House in November.

These are the big players when it comes to content ownership:
Disney Corp.
Fox News Corp.
CBS Corp.
Viacom
Comcast/General Electric
Time Warner
Sony
Edited by Jed1 - 8/12/12 at 3:05pm

Newbie here kicking around the idea of dropping Comcast cable boxes for Tivo boxes. Long and short of it, I'm going to need at least three and maybe four cable boxes in my home. Instead of paying $40 per month in rental fees, I figured I'd take a look at Tivo. While the upfront cost is high, you end up making your money back over time. I'm also very much intrigued by the Premiere X4...4 tuners with a 2 TB hard drive solves a lot of interruption issues when multiple programs are on at the same time and I want to watch a game. Is the XL4 worth the premium price? Does it function as advertised?

Also, can anyone speak Cable Cards? I dug around a bit and it seems as though Comcast likes to jerk around the cost of them, most likely to get people to either A.) leave Comcast or B.) give up and use their boxes. Anyone have any insight into it at all?

Lastly, how is multi-room viewing? I like the idea of having the Premiere XL functioning as my main box with satellite boxes around the home. Seems cost effective but I'm not totally sure if it's feasible.

Anyway, that's my conundrum. Any input is appreciated.

You don't need a cable card, but you will lose the ability to program via the guide and probably receive fewer channels. You will also get evil messages when making manual recordings. My card rents for $3 a month. Prices vary and can be free in some locations. All cable is local.

If Comcast has a "package" their STB may be part of it. Check pricing vs. a la cart. It might be cheaper to get the package then use the TiVo and its guide.

Hi, looking at the Premiere or Premiere XL for cable and OTA. Are you able to say something like: "for NBC, I want you to use OTA?"
Can I record an OTA channel and watch another OTA?
For cable, if all I'm interested in is QAM channels, can I do w/out the Cable Card? (I have Comcast Internet and get the QAM channels for free). (edit: I see JoeKustra's answer above. thanks!)

Thanks in advance.
Edited by triple_vee - 8/12/12 at 7:16pm

Thanks for the quick response. Is it $3 per cable card? So if you have 4 boxes, it's $12 per mont? That's not bad.

Yes, and yes.

The Premiere and Premiere XL has two tuners, each can receive from ANT or cable indepently from what is on the other tuner. Plus you can watch finished recorded material regardless of what the tuners are doing.

If you want a certain channel(s) *only* via antenna, just uncheck the duplicate cable channel(s) in "Channels I Receive".

I have three Comcast M-cards for my three TiVos and they don't charge me anything for them where I live.

I have two premieres stacked on top of each other in my main viewing room. I bought one new for $90 and the other was a "refurb" I bought for $55 dollars shipped. Even though it was sold as a refurb and came in a plain cardboard box it appeared to be new with no scratches or other signs of use and it still had the protective film on the front panel. One of these I upgraded with a 2TB drive, each has an M-Card and one of them also is connected to an antenna for OTA viewing/recording (which you cannot do with an XL4). So with the two combined I have 4 tuners + OTA + 2.3TB of recording space. I bought lifetime on Premiere #1 for $299 with my MSD. When I activated Premiere #2 they offered me lifetime on my TiVo HD that I have in another room for $99 so I bought lifetime for it also. So after it's all added up I paid around $720 up front for three TiVos with lifetime on two of them (including the 2TB drive) + 12.99 a month for the non-lifetimed Premiere. The rent for just one Comcast DVR is $15.95 a month. Without checking the math too close I was saving money in less than two years.

If you want 3 or 4 boxes, you'd be a lot better off with a Cablecard HTPC and a few cheap Xboxes as extenders. You could probably do the whole thing for less than a grand, which is way cheaper than what 3 Tivos with lifetime service will cost.

IN a few months a TiVo IP STB will be released. It will be able to stream content from an XL 4 box as well as use Netflix, Amazon, etc. SO you could get one or two XL4 boxes and get the IP STBs.

There are two type of cards: single and multi-stream cards. The M-Card permits receiving/recording two channels at the same time. I have one Premiere and one M-Card. I pay $3 for the card. As was posted, you can watch a recorded title while recording two others. You can't record two channels and watch a third with the Premiere. And, as been posted, prices vary.

I have four 2005 Sony DHG units that accept cable cards but I never needed one. They use TVGOS. I have a Magnavox 2160A and 515H that can't use a cable card. I also have a PHD-VRX, M-6620N (TViX) and BV-980H. I can not receive OTA.

Yep. I was kicking around the idea of the XL4 as my main DVR. Does the M-Card allow the STB to record three programs while watching one live?

Quick question about the service plan...it's either $14.99 per month or $499 for a lifetime subscription. Is that per household or per box?

I can't comment on devices other than the Premiere. The service plans are per box and not per person or location and they can be transferred with the box.

Right. Or, you can watch a recording or stream content while actively recording on all four tuners (on the Elite/XL4).

Per box. First box $499, additional boxes (up to 5) are $399.

I have three TiVo's, and 4 Charter CableCards (one is in a TV). My first CableCard is free, the others are $2 per month. If your area uses SDV, you will also need SDV Adaptors from your CableCo. Where I live, they are free.