The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 61

The only thing with using the eSATA port is that creates two points of failure. And if one drive has issues you lose everything on both drives since they become married.

I think it's possible you bought the original 320GB Premiere which sold for $99. Just speculation. The one now (75 hours) has a MSRP of $149. You'll know when it arrives.

edit:
I may be wrong. I'm new to the TiVo world too. Check post #1 for more information.
Edited by JoeKustra - 11/22/12 at 7:17am

When doing the search, I specified TiVo as the manufacturer, of course, and simply "Premiere" for the model. I then had to connect my Harmony to the computer via USB and use it as an IR detector while I pressed various buttons on my TiVo remote in response to requests from the software as it tried to identify my remote. It didn't give me a specific identification of the model that it finally settled on.

I just got a new TiVo, set up my sub, etc. Watched and recorded a couple of things and all was good.

Next I tried to watch a Youtube video. I found the one I wanted to see, selected it and it showed the control bar (pause, ff, rew, etc.) at the bottom of the screen, then the screen went blank. I hit one of the buttons and the control bar appeared again and I could see that the elapsed time of the video was progressing and the progress bar of both what's played and what's been downloaded were being updated, but still no picture or sound.

I tried this with several different videos but always the same thing. TiVo support hasn't been any help. Has anyone else seen something like this?

Thanks.

I've been looking at getting a Tivo for several months now. I've read a lot about them here and at other forums and IMO, if you want to stream, get a Roku player or some other inexpensive box. Tivos are great dvrs, but mediocre streamers.

After spending about a week checking out my new Tivo Premiere 4s, I found that I love how they operate with VIDEO QUALITY being the exception. That's a big exception and possibly a show stopper for me. By degraded video quality, I mean, loss of fine detail in the picture.

I had a long discussion with Tivo Tech Support and found out that Tivo uses a 1440 x 1080i format rather than the full HD 1920 x 1080i, so, about a 25% reduction in picture quality. The picture output from the Tivo still fills a 16:9, 1920 x 1080 native display, but, at a reduced image quality. To me that's a type of lossy video compression which also answers how Tivo can store 75 hours of HD programming in 500 GB, on the average.

Has any forum members confirmed this, or, was my Tivo tech support person incorrect?

Thanks
James

^^^
In my experience, recording digital OTA, that is not true at all. TiVo records and plays back the transport stream exactly as received. I have my TiVo set to display in native format (HDMI connection). The TiVo playback looks no different from the playback of the display's tuner. The only time TiVo does any encoding is if you are recording an analog signal -- does anybody do that any more -- in which case you can tell it what encoding quality to use. Perhaps that is what the technician was referring to.

I transfer a lot of recordings to my network storage for collecting. I can run MediaInfo on the files and see that 720p stations like ABC and FOX have resolutions of 720x1280; 1080i stations like CBS and NBC have resolutions of 1080x1920.

Hi Kelson, thanks for the response. So, your saying that in 1080i mode, the Tivo sends out 1920 samples rather than 1440 samples stretched out to 1920 pixels? In either case you would have 1920 x 1080 pixels.
I'm not wanting to argue, just trying to understand why I'm seeing some reduction in picture quality. My display is a 50" Sony so any image degradation would be visible. For what's is worth, I did not see this degradation when using my older Sony DVRs.
I want to keep the Tivos, so can you point me in any direction to start troubleshooting?

Thanks Again
James

If you are recording digital source the TiVo is capturing the transport stream exactly as it is coming over the coax. Try setting the TiVo for Native output and make sure your displays HDMI input has the same "picture processing" or calibration as is set for your tuner.

Thanks Nelson, I'll check to see if the setting for the HDMI on the TV have some how changed.

I don't have an option for "native" option on my Tivo. I have used the Tivo settings option to scan my TV for video modes. The Tivo find all possible modes except my Sony TV's native mode which is 1920 x 1080p. The Tivo says that 1080p is not supported, so I can't set up the Tivo for 1080p. This should not degrade picture quality. In the case of downloaded 1080p programming from Amazon or YouTube, I'm not sure what the Tivo would do.

Thanks Again
James

I just checked my "Video" options and 1080p was not checked. I have a Sony EX700. The 1080p also has "(24fps, pass-through only)" next to it. I don't know if that means 1080p/60 is not supported. I then ran the video test. The result is now ALL boxes are checked. I can't speculate why it wasn't checked before, but I have changed cables. I also don't have a native mode on the TiVo that I could find. I seem to remember setting 1080i at one time to fix the output at 1080i before I got my cable card. No conclusions, but I would run the video test again.

BTW, the TiVo feeds a Yamaha AVR set to "Pass-Through".

Hi Joe, I just ran the video test again and the Tivo still says: 1080p (not supported). The Tivo selects the 1080i format as optimal and there is not option for selecting 1080p.
I did also just play a YouTube 1080p video through the Tivo. It did play, but the Sony TV said it was 1080i formated. It was interesting to see that the Tivo appeared to be sending the full 1920 samples x 1080 lines. I had a very clear picture will high detail. I forgot to mention to Kelson, that the Tivo tech did say that the Tivo would output the full 1920 x 1080 quality only if the programming material was 1080p. Also my Tivo is a Premiere 4 and my TV is a Sony KDS-50A2020.

Thanks
James

As far as I know HDTV is not transmitted in 1080p. It is only in 1080i and 720p. Therefore there is not really any advantage to the 1080p setting.

Non-broadcast streaming can be done in 1080p if your internet is fast enough. It may account for the 1080p/24 message.

Hi duanew

I agree, no 1080p HDTV, but, Amazon and YouTube do have 1080P available. Possibly the other video on demand providers also. Tivo does advertise full 1080p capability for the new Premiere 4 DVR. My new Tivo Premiere 4, HDMI interface, when playing 1080p YouTube programming will only send 1080i to the TV. Running the Tivo video scan indicates that 1080p is not supported.

The more important issue is the video quality per scan line. Is it full 1080i HD or anamorphic 1080i HD, ie, based on 1920 samples or 1440 samples. Both are displayed in 1920 x 1080 pixels on a native 1920 x 1080 display. It's just that the 1440 sample quality output has less picture quality. Kelson responded to one of my posts saying that he sees no difference in picture quality between OTA input to TV vs OTA input to Tivo. I have no way of making that kind of an apples to apples comparison. My Tivo is using a M-card; my TV does not provide for a cablecard. When I view good quality 1080i HDTV straight from the cable to the TV, the picture has outstanding quality with lots of fine detail. I don't see that when viewing cable to Tivo. Maybe both my Premiere 4s are defective and should be sent back to Tivo.........for a refund.

Thanks
James

^^^^

I don't see any possible advantage for altering a digital transport stream for recording purposes ... all it would do is create more work for the DVR with minimal recovery of drive space.

I suspect you may be cross-converting (1080i -> 720p) at output. As Kelson suggested, make sure all of your video output resolutions are checked (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p)

Then again, I don't know what the current status of the ICT is for "broadcast" a/o "cable" sources. YMMV ...

 

The Sony DVR's can't be topped for PQ, IMO. I learned a long time ago not to ever even expect that (most standalone tuners from the last, few years' tuner's PQ isn't even as good as my TiVo HD's).

 

The only thing that compares in standalone DVR's are the old LG and Zenith. After retiring the Sony and using my TiVo HD for a few months, I adapted OK to the very slight hit on PQ. 

 

It really wasn't that big of a difference. I noticed it most on 480i channels, but even there, it's not much. It's just a tad on HD. But I suppose it's possible that the Premiere's PQ isn't as good as the HD's (never saw it). 

I have 3 Premier XL's. The primary TiVo is connected to my (now 10yr old) Mits 65" RPTV. Great picture, but no 1080p support. The second TiVo is connected to a (3yr old) Mits LT-46246 lcd in the bedroom. That TV supports 1080p. The third Tivo is connected to a Sharp LC-26GD4U (8 yrs old) in another room. No 1080p there.

I checked the TiVo video settings with the Mits in the bedroom after seeing these posts. Left to its own the TiVo chooses to send the TV 1080i, which is how I have been using it. It has been my understanding the the TV converts any 1080i input to 1080p before display. I always figured that the conversion was best performed in the $1800 TV than in the $200 DVR. But I could be wrong.

I ran the TiVo "video test" this morning. The results (with the Mits in the bedroom) are shown in the pictures below...







So it looks to me like the TiVo would send 1080p to the TV if I forced it to. However when I run the "auto setup" again, the TiVo once again chooses to send 1080i.

Your results are the same as mine. I don't need the TiVo to send 1080p since any streaming would be done by my BD player. At one time I had a 15Mbs internet feed and was able to get, from the BD, HD from Amazon, but have 24 converted to 60. Anyhow, my 3Mbs internet feed doesn't support 1080 and I didn't even add the TiVo to my Amazon account. This has saved me some money.

I have never heard of a TV that uses a scalar chip that gives you the option to change 1080p to 1080i. My cable signal looks the same under all conditions if the content is the same. Good enough for me. But I haven't been lucky enough to have OTA in 35 years.

The way I understand it, no special chip is required...

2. Why 1080p is theoretically better than 1080i

1080i, the former king of the HDTV hill, actually boasts an identical 1,920x1,080 resolution but conveys the images in an interlaced format (the i in 1080i). In a tube-based television, otherwise known as a CRT, 1080i sources get "painted" on the screen sequentially: the odd-numbered lines of resolution appear on your screen first, followed by the even-numbered lines--all within 1/30 of a second. Progressive-scan formats such as 480p, 720p, and 1080p convey all of the lines of resolution sequentially in a single pass, which makes for a smoother, cleaner image, especially with sports and other motion-intensive content. As opposed to tubes, microdisplays (DLP, LCoS, and LCD rear-projection) and other fixed-pixel TVs, including plasma and LCD flat-panel, are inherently progressive in nature, so when the incoming source is interlaced, as 1080i is, they convert it to progressive scan for display.

That's the way I've always understood it to be.

Source: http://reviews.cnet.com/1080i-vs-1080p-hdtv/

I've not seen this issue with my Premiers. When running the resolution pattern it is showing much higher than 1440.

The TiVo Premieres cannot scale to 1080P. It can only pass-through 1080P and that is limited to 1080P24. Most of the content I watch from Amazon is in 1080P24. That is the advantage of watching Amazon content on TiVo Premieres. Other devices only stream Amazon content and they are limited to 720P from Amazon. The TiVo Premiere only downloads Amazon content and that downloaded content can be in 1080P24 or even 1080i. Both exceed the quality of the streaming only devices which are limited to 720P. Although the only caveat with the TiVo Premieres is that they cannot play they Amazon Prime content. But any content from Amazon that is rented or purchased can be played on the TiVo Premiere. Most of the content I watch from Amazon are TV shows and most of them that I watch are in 1080P24 and DD 5.1.

When I view local HD channels on clear QAM straight into my 1080p Panny plasma, they look exactly the same as output to the TV via HDMI from my Tivo Elite and HD. Your TV is either not reporting EDID capability correctly via HDMI, or the Tivo video output is not set correctly, or the TV is not handling the signal correctly. It is not a Tivo issue, in other words - have you tried using component cables?

My Tivo Elite is set to only output 1080i and p, therefore all cable channels are scaled to 1080i and any p video (streamed or via video transfers from my PC) is shown as p. I can't see a noticeable diff between forced 1080i and native output for 720p channels, and I don't have the screen flicker/delay that comes with switching resolutions.

I'm just curious what "resolution pattern" you're using to test with. I looked at the THX test video that came on my Premier XL's but I don't see a resolution test there. I was thinking while I was looking for it however, that it would be kind of silly for THX to certify a device that took a 1080x1920 incoming signal, reduced it to 1080x1440, then inflated that back up to 1080x1920 for display?

I can't think of any way to prove that it's not happening though.

If I remember correctly its from the HDNet test patterns I have.

Hi HDTVChallenged

It may make sense to alter the stream to store more data on the hard drives. I am no expert, but, it would seem that additional compression would be required to , in the case or the Tivo Premiere 4, store 75 hours of HDTV on a 500 GB drive. I know the Sony DVRs can't do that. But, again, I'm no expert. What would be the file size for 1 hour of HDTV, 1920 x 1080i, 24 FPS, 3 colors, 8 bits/color???

I am unable to check all the video output resolutions on my Tivo. I can only check: 480i 480p 720p 1080i. The 1080p option is not available to check. The Premiere 4 says that "1080p (not supported)". ( I have 2 new Tivos and they both say the same thing.) The Tivo defaults to 1080i and the Sony TV confirms that it is receiving 1080I data over the HDMI interface. My Sony TV upconverts all formats to 1920 x 1080p for it's native display........or that's how I understand it.

Thanks
James

Maybe they feel everyone watches Fox and ABC?

Hello Rammitinski

If my wife and I keep the Tivos then we will probably just watch the clear QAM HDVT straight from the TV's tuner and only watch recorded progamming from the Tivo. (did not want to split the signal prior to the Tivo because, I assume, the signal is split 2 times for the 4 receivers in the Tivo) I sure we will adapt in time also.

Thanks
James

If you are worried about signal loss from passive splitters, this item from Radio Shack works well. I have several.

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=1%20to%204%20splitter&origkw=1+to+4+splitter&sr=1

The CM 3414 does the same thing, but haven't used one. CM also has a 1 to 2 active splitter.

Hi WS65711

Thanks for the pics. It's interesting that my Tivo Premiere 4 video settings window does not have the Video Smoothing option. My output format screen says '1080p (not supported)" and does not give me the option to select it.
I did download a YouTube 1080P video. When played, the Sony TV said that The Tivo output was 1080I, which is what the Tivo had set for the optimal output. What was interesting was that the picture quality was OUTSTANDING and looked like full HD 1920 samples per line. The picture quality should not change 1080i vs 1080p. This agrees with what Tivo tech support said and that is for the Tivo Premiere 4, 1080i programming gives you 1440 x 1080i, 1080p programming gives you 1920 x 1080p. I just don't believe that yet. If it really true. I may sent the unit back for a refund.

Thanks
James