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The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 97

post #2881 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by paroots View Post

. . . currently am using the Comcast DVR . . . I understand that the TiVo premiere with lifetime subscription may be the best choice . . . I do want to stick with versions that allow 1 cable card. I prefer the premiere over the series 3 because I understand they have the skip ahead button. My primary application is skipping over commercials. Will either the series 3 or premieres allow me to . . . simultaneously be buffering two channels and switching between them and skipping over commercials on both?
Both TiVo HD & XL (series 3) and Premier (series 4) take a single M-card for two tuners.

Both HD and Premier have 30 sec skip forward and 8 sec skip back. It is not the default action on the HD and you have to press a simple button sequence on the remote to activate it (see post 2 of the HD thread).

Each tuner has its own independent 30 min live buffer active all the time. You can pause the buffer and switch between channels at will. The buffers are only 30 min each and your content will roll off if you wait too long. You can also press "Record" at any time while viewing the buffer and it will capture the current program as far back in the buffer that it goes and continue recording the real time transmission. This is useful if you find you must leave viewing for an extended or undetermined period of time and fear you may not be able to keep up with both buffers.

At this point, with the release of the Roamio, if you are interested in a used older model, I would go with a Premier over an HD. They may cost a little more on Ebay but they are a newer and more capable model than the HD and obviously will have less age on them. The HD is built like a boat anchor, I have one and it is still purring after nearly 5 yr, but if I were looking for a second one in the used market I would go for a Premier.
post #2882 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Yes - ALL TiVos have a 30 skip Option - HOWEVER the KEY CODE for it is NOT in the TiVo.
You need a REMOTE you can ADD the Code to. If you can not find the CODE on

http://www.remotecentral.com/

I can SEND it to you.

Huh??? The Tivo remote works just fine for scanning ahead 30 seconds. A code can be entered into THE TIVO to change the scan to skip. Both are pretty much the same.
post #2883 of 3305
No Skip Function on TiVo remote
post #2884 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

Huh??? The Tivo remote works just fine for scanning ahead 30 seconds. A code can be entered into THE TIVO to change the scan to skip. Both are pretty much the same.

They are most definitely not the same. I used the 30 second skip for almost nine years until the Premiere came out. I thought I would not like the the 30 second scan but found I liked it better. Now after using the 30 second scan for several years I wouldn't want to go back to the 30 second skip. My GFs S3 TiVos have the 30 second skip and it is jarring when i use it. Between the SD menus and the 30 second skip, I can't stand using S3 boxes any more. And of course with the S5 Roamio TiVos, everything is even better than previous TiVos.
post #2885 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

They are most definitely not the same. I used the 30 second skip for almost nine years until the Premiere came out. I thought I would not like the the 30 second scan but found I liked it better. Now after using the 30 second scan for several years I wouldn't want to go back to the 30 second skip. My GFs S3 TiVos have the 30 second skip and it is jarring when i use it. Between the SD menus and the 30 second skip, I can't stand using S3 boxes any more. And of course with the S5 Roamio TiVos, everything is even better than previous TiVos.
Thanks. Just so I understand, the scan feature is invoked by pressing what I would call the fast forward button? If so, does the rewind button skip back as well? If you setup for scan forward and back do you lose the traditional fast forward and rewind features?
Pete
Edited by paroots - 9/22/13 at 2:59am
post #2886 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by paroots View Post

Thanks. Just so I understand, the scan feature is invoked by pressing what I would call the fast forward button? If so, does the rewind button skip back as well? If you setup for scan forward and back do you lose the traditional fast forward and rewind features?
Pete

There is a separate fast forward button, press it one, two or three times for faster forwarding. Same for rewind. The Skip button (which does double duty for going through lists) simply jumps or scans ahead 30 seconds. The replay button, jumps back 8 seconds.
post #2887 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

They are most definitely not the same. I used the 30 second skip for almost nine years until the Premiere came out. I thought I would not like the the 30 second scan but found I liked it better. Now after using the 30 second scan for several years I wouldn't want to go back to the 30 second skip. My GFs S3 TiVos have the 30 second skip and it is jarring when i use it. Between the SD menus and the 30 second skip, I can't stand using S3 boxes any more. And of course with the S5 Roamio TiVos, everything is even better than previous TiVos.

Well, I can't argue with you because I have had only Premieres. The scan ahead is fine for me, but I think I've read that some people prefer the skip.
post #2888 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

There is a separate fast forward button, press it one, two or three times for faster forwarding. Same for rewind. The Skip button (which does double duty for going through lists) simply jumps or scans ahead 30 seconds. The replay button, jumps back 8 seconds.
Thanks. Sounds good.
Pete
post #2889 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV View Post

Well, I can't argue with you because I have had only Premieres. The scan ahead is fine for me, but I think I've read that some people prefer the skip.

I just use the FF (x2) button ... *far fewer* clicks and gymnastics involved ... same amount of time ... YMMV wink.gif
post #2890 of 3305
The problem with the scan ahead (for me) is that it is a lot slower. A skip is immediate. Press skip 6-7 times and you've (usually) instantly past the last ad during . During a Football game, press it a single time and you're at the next snap (except for those fast snap teams - I've a macro on my remote for two rewinds and one skip ahead for them). Whereas the scan takes a few (annoying - again, to me) seconds. The problem with the FF button is that you need to keep your eyes glued to the screen to see where you want to start again. It is a very irritating way to skip past the constant chatter and replays of a sports event. This is just my experience, others may not watch as much football as I do.
post #2891 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

The problem with the scan ahead (for me) is that it is a lot slower. A skip is immediate. Press skip 6-7 times and you've (usually) instantly past the last ad
I also prefer the 30 sec instant skip over the 30 sec fast scan. I like immediate for the same reasons. A commercial hits and I click off a quick 8 presses before I look at the screen to see where I'm at. To bad they took away the option. My wife on the other hand likes the 30 sec scan. She finds it more "pleasing" and feels less likely to make an over-skipping mistake with the slower quick-scan -- her feedback control loop has a different time constant. I'll get used to it -- what choice do I have.

Perhaps it's TiVo's way of making the unit more female-friendly to make it easier for the men to justify purchase of the new toy.
post #2892 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

A commercial hits and I click off a quick 8 presses before I look at the screen to see where I'm at.

This is better than 2 clicks of the FF button and one of the play button? biggrin.gif

Sorry, I've never understood the cult of the 30 sec skip/scan, especially since 50% of the time you'll need to hit the RW (or skip back) button to back up and try again ... wink.gif
post #2893 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

This is better than 2 clicks of the FF button and one of the play button?
Yup. Much faster and I don't have to stare at the screen to catch the start of the show.
To each his own. That's why they give us options -- unlike Bill Gates who wants you to run Windows his way, alone.
post #2894 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Yup. Much faster and I don't have to stare at the screen to catch the start of the show..

Well, I still get through a typical one hour long network show in 45 minutes ... I don't see how you can get much "faster" than that.

For me, it's all about the pain factor, and that some networks like to play games with the length of their commercial breaks. FF(x2) + Play works 100% of the time. (FFx3 + Play for D* DVRs)

Plus, technically, I'm still "watching" the commercials, so I can take the moral high ground when the media goons accuse me of being a "thief" for "skipping" the commercials. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #2895 of 3305
If you're only fast-forwarding at 2x, you'll still be spending at least 60 seconds on commercials per break on average, whereas with skipping, you can jump over the entire break and back up if necessary in the space of fewer than 10 seconds, which is more efficient. If you fast-forward at a speed greater than 2x, you'll stll probably have to back up a bit, because by the time you notice that the show has resumed and press the play button, you'll have already missed a few seconds of dialogue (unless you have good reflexes).

I experimented with various skip durations on my DVR and found 45s/15s to be the best durations, as breaks are sometimes an exact multiple of 45s, thus eliminating the need to back up at all. I can also hold the skip button to jump multiple times at once, rather than having to press it several times in succession.
post #2896 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

If you're only fast-forwarding at 2x, you'll still be spending at least 60 seconds on commercials per break on average, whereas with skipping, you can jump over the entire break and back up if necessary in the space of fewer than 10 seconds, which is more efficient. If you fast-forward at a speed greater than 2x, you'll stll probably have to back up a bit, because by the time you notice that the show has resumed and press the play button, you'll have already missed a few seconds of dialogue (unless you have good reflexes).

I experimented with various skip durations on my DVR and found 45s/15s to be the best durations, as breaks are sometimes an exact multiple of 45s, thus eliminating the need to back up at all. I can also hold the skip button to jump multiple times at once, rather than having to press it several times in succession.
I FF at the >> speed. It gets me through the break, including 10 & 20 second promos and the such pretty quickly. I look for the translucent logo to appear so I'm not fooled by a promo. TiVo's programmed "Jump Back" is ingenious since I hit the Black between commercial and program 80% of the time If I miss, it's usually 1 or 2 seconds of the commercial material. Way faster than 30 second skip. It's the 10 & 20 second promos and the 3 second station IDs that get you.
post #2897 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

If you're only fast-forwarding at 2x, you'll still be spending at least 60 seconds on commercials per break on average, whereas with skipping, you can jump over the entire break and back up if necessary in the space of fewer than 10 seconds, which is more efficient. If you fast-forward at a speed greater than 2x, you'll stll probably have to back up a bit, because by the time you notice that the show has resumed and press the play button, you'll have already missed a few seconds of dialogue (unless you have good reflexes).

I experimented with various skip durations on my DVR and found 45s/15s to be the best durations, as breaks are sometimes an exact multiple of 45s, thus eliminating the need to back up at all. I can also hold the skip button to jump multiple times at once, rather than having to press it several times in succession.

This is one reason I like the scan. I can still quickly select 30 second increments, so seven presses and it will scan forward 3.5 minutes. And I'm able to still see the commmercials/breaks so if there is something I am interested in, I can stop the scan and look at it.
post #2898 of 3305
It's all about having choices and personal preference. I read people who like the FF approach, I read people who like the 30 sec scan, I read people who like the 30 sec instant skip (like me smile.gif). We have the choice so you can use what you want -- and you will use what you use because you think it is the best -- and it is, for you.

The TiVo HD did not have 30 sec instant skip as the default. You had to press the select-play-select-3-0-select sequence on the remote while watching a recording to activate it. I just learned in the Roamio thread that the same sequence works for the Roamio to change the default from 30 sec scan back to 30 sec instant skip -- that made me real happy because 30 sec scan sucks for me. I presume the same sequence would work for the Premier. So we have the choice of whatever skip method we prefer -- that's nice.
post #2899 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Well, I still get through a typical one hour long network show in 45 minutes ... I don't see how you can get much "faster" than that.
For me, it is not about the speed, it's about the journey.
post #2900 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

If you're only fast-forwarding at 2x,

1) By "x2" ... I mean pressing the FF twice ... which on the Premier is significantly faster than x2 speed. (more like x15 or x20 speed) wink.gif

2) On my D* DVR, x3 (three FF presses) is roughly the same speed as "x2" on the TiVo.

3) The human reaction time vs. DVR "bounce back" upon pressing Play is as close to "perfect" as you're likely to get on either device.

So again, I don't see how a minimum of 8 button presses is more "efficient" than 3 or 4 in any measurable way.

YMMV, all I can do is point to what I think is a better (or at least a much less frantic) way. smile.gif

In short, 1) I get through the programs in the same amount of time, 2) I *know* I'm not missing any actual program material, 3) I don't have to keep mashing tiny, hard to reach, buttons like a squirrel on meth.

I rest my case. smile.gif
post #2901 of 3305
I prefer 3x(3 pushes of the FF button) and most of the time a delayed PLAY takes me back to the exact beginning of the program. I say delayed because if I push it as soon as I see the program the jump back goes too far and I have to watch the last 10 seconds or so of the commercial(guess my reaction time is too fast for even 3x) cool.gif Like a few others I prefer to see what I'm scanning(even if it is only a few frames of a 30 second commercial). That way if it's a commercial or promo I might actually want to watch I have the option of going back to watch it. A blank skip would not have that option, to each his own though and I agree it's nice to have the choice smile.gif
post #2902 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I prefer 3x(3 pushes of the FF button) and most of the time a delayed PLAY takes me back to the exact beginning of the program. I say delayed because if I push it as soon as I see the program the jump back goes too far and I have to watch the last 10 seconds or so of the commercial(guess my reaction time is too fast for even 3x) cool.gif Like a few others I prefer to see what I'm scanning(even if it is only a few frames of a 30 second commercial). That way if it's a commercial or promo I might actually want to watch I have the option of going back to watch it. A blank skip would not have that option, to each his own though and I agree it's nice to have the choice smile.gif

That's exactly what I do. I've gotten pretty good at hitting delay just a nano second after seeing the program start. I'd probably use the skip/scan if the commercial breaks were always the same. Since they are not, you then usually have to fiddle with either the fast forward/rewind buttons or the replay and skip buttons. But, to each his own.
post #2903 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

[quote name="Aleron Ives" url="/t/1232191/the-official-avs-tivo-series4-premiere-topic/2880#post_23765874"]If you're only fast-forwarding at 2x, [/quote]1) By "x2" ... I mean [b]pressing the FF twice[/b] ... which on the Premier is significantly faster than x2 speed. (more like x15 or x20 speed) ;)2) On my D* DVR, x3 (three FF presses) is roughly the same speed as "x2" on the TiVo. 3) The human reaction time vs. DVR "bounce back" upon pressing Play is as close to "perfect" as you're likely to get on either device.So again, I don't see how a minimum of 8 button presses is more "efficient" than 3 or 4 in any measurable way.YMMV, all I can do is point to what I think is a better (or at least a much less frantic) way. :) In short, 1) I get through the programs in the same amount of time, 2) I *know* I'm not missing any actual program material, 3) I don't have to keep mashing tiny, hard to reach, buttons like a squirrel on meth. I rest my case. :)

Mashing tiny, hard to reach buttons? Just a bit of an exaggeration, no? smile.gif While scan may get the job done in fewer clicks, it is far slower. Give it a try and you'll see. If you find the skip button hard to reach, then you gotta do what you gotta do. It's not frantic though to click skip 8 times, it's the same button after all, not jumping all over. I'd say waiting for the scan to complete when you can just skip there immediately, esp. when trying to get back to a show you like, is downright tedious.

Now the clear button, that one is hard to reach! smile.gif
post #2904 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sievers View Post

Give it a try and you'll see.

That's the point, I have tried it (30 sec skip,) and I found it unsuitable ... the machine exists to serve me, not the other way around. Four button presses is better than eight (or more depending on how successful those first eight were.) At this point, this really seems to be more about never, ever seeing even a second of advertising vs. actual time saving. To me, that seems just plain silly ... YMMV. wink.gif

If you're a twenty/thirty-something hard core fragger, then by all means go ahead mash those buttons as many times and as frantically as you want ... Just be aware that you're eventually going to pay the price. One day when you find yourself screaming in pain from just trying to lift your morning cup of caffeine off the kitchen counter, remember I warned you. smile.gif

PS: Yes the "skip: button on the standard TiVo remotes is *very* tiny and almost impossible for me to "find" with any degree of accuracy ... I almost always wind up pressing one of the adjacent buttons, which just wastes more time. I avoid direct tuning of OTA sub-channels. No exaggeration required here.

[/rant]
post #2905 of 3305
Jeez man, give it up - both ways to skip are valid. There is no right or wrong here, and people aren't going to get arthritis from mashing remote buttons.
post #2906 of 3305
I have Carpel Tunnel and also Arthritis and I have no problem finding or pressing the skip button on the TiVo remotes. It is easily found, without looking at the remote, in a split second whether I use the large TiVo remote, the small Slide remote, or the new medium size RF remote that comes with the Roamio.
post #2907 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

the machine exists to serve me, not the other way around. Four button presses is better than eight (or more depending on how successful those first eight were.) At this point, this really seems to be more about never, ever seeing even a second of advertising vs. actual time saving. To me, that seems just plain silly ... YMMV. wink.gif

4 button presses IS better than 8... if all else is equal. But that's not the case here. The point is to skip commercials, yes, and save time. If I can do it in 5 seconds one way, or do it in 20 another, I'll take the few extra button presses. I understand if you have a health issue that you may object to that route, but it is quite a good and useful route for many.

I still don't quite get the button mashing thing - it's as if you imagine one flailing about, screaming at the tivo and running in circles as they do it. It's actually quite a minimal movement! Anyway enough talk about something no one cares about... smile.gif
post #2908 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sievers View Post

I still don't quite get the button mashing thing - it's as if you imagine one flailing about, screaming at the tivo and running in circles as they do it. It's actually quite a minimal movement! Anyway enough talk about something no one cares about... smile.gif

Because it's *never* as simple as just 8 presses. It's 8 ... oops ... too far ... RW ... oops too far again ... FF ... Play ....Whew ... got it!!!!

Or 8 presses ... not far enough ... two more ... still not there ... two more ... oops .... too far ... RW ... lather, rinse repeat.

IOW, frantic ... meth addicted squirrel action. ... and you haven't really saved any more time. biggrin.gif

After entire evening of that, I found my fingers and thumb significantly cramped and unable to perform more routine tasks for sometime. It took awhile, but I eventually learned that the consistent and far more relaxed ... "press, press .... .... ... press" sequence is easier on hand and rarely results in the "oops ... lather, rinse, repeat sequence." wink.gif

Frankly, I think the 'cult of the thirty second skip' is based on more of a psychological need, than a physical "victory" over time and "The Man." wink.gif

PS: I can keep going .... The best way to stop this "discussion" is to simply stop quoting my posts. smile.gif
post #2909 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Because it's *never* as simple as just 8 presses. It's 8 ... oops ... too far ... RW ... oops too far again ... FF ... Play ....Whew ... got it!!!!

PS: I can keep going .... The best way to stop this "discussion" is to simply stop quoting my posts. smile.gif

It's not that hard. If you go over, you just click back 1-3 times. Look I get it, your hand hurts. But you are exaggerating with the squirrel on meth thing. Maybe that's how you did it, but it doesn't have to be that way. It is definitely faster so I don't know why you would act like it isn't. I have no idea where you get the cult comments. It's just finding the fastest way to do something, people do it all the time in all sorts of different things. Maybe your idea of frantic is quite a bit different than mine.

I'm happy to let the discussion come to a natural conclusion! When you keep saying things that aren't true, I feel compelled to throw in another 2 cents. smile.gif
post #2910 of 3305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sievers View Post

It's not that hard. If you go over, you just click back 1-3 times. Look I get it, your hand hurts. But you are exaggerating with the squirrel on meth thing. Maybe that's how you did it, but it doesn't have to be that way. It is definitely faster so I don't know why you would act like it isn't. I have no idea where you get the cult comments. It's just finding the fastest way to do something, people do it all the time in all sorts of different things. Maybe your idea of frantic is quite a bit different than mine.

I'm happy to let the discussion come to a natural conclusion! When you keep saying things that aren't true, I feel compelled to throw in another 2 cents. smile.gif

Ok ... let's try a slightly different tack ...

1) Let's assume that one is actually able to be 100% effective at using the 30 second skip method.
2) Let's assume that this "perfection" allows one to get through a typical one hour long broadcast network show in exactly 42.5 minutes, instead of the consistent 45 minutes I achieve with FFx2+Play method (assuming I don't hit pause at some point during the show.)
3) That's great ... one has managed to save an additional 2.5 minutes per one hour long show.
4) Now if one can manage to get through 16 more 1 hour long shows in an "evening" (sequentially with no breaks,) one will have "saved" enough time to view an additional 18th show. Congratulations!!!! You will have beaten the clock ... You will have beaten "The Man" ... You will be the Champion ... the Hero ... the Ayatolla of Rock-n-Rolla!!!! All will look upon you and DESPAIR!!!!

Sadly, OTOH, if you only have time to get through 5 shows in a night (which seems quite "optimistic") you will have saved a whopping 12.5 minutes ... which admittedly is probably enough time to do "something" ... not TV related. wink.gifbiggrin.gif But at what cost???

Of course, this all depends on assumption #1 actually being true ... which is isn't. wink.gif

Again, I attempt to rest my case. smile.gif

PS: 1) Sorry for the multiple edits. 2) I use the term "cult of the 30sec skip," because those affected by this particular disease tend to pursue it irrationally in spite of the mathematical evidence that it doesn't really achieve any significant time "recovery" versus much less "frantic" methods. wink.gif
Edited by HDTVChallenged - 9/25/13 at 10:54pm
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