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Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 48

post #1411 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, I read it. In fact I saw it when it was originally posted. But it isn’t saying what you are saying it is saying. Arny is saying that there is no purpose in testing a broken amplifier. These days, any amp that doesn’t, for example, have a flat response and inaudible levels of distortion can really be considered as broken, or so badly designed that it isn't worth consideration. He is definitely NOT saying what you said above he is saying. If you doubt me on this, by all means PM Arny and ask him.

How do you know it is broken if you only test 1 sample. Are you saying that all manufacturers meet their quoted specs unless the amp is defective?
Neither you nor Arney has explained how to level match various frequencies without EQ.
post #1412 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, I read it. In fact I saw it when it was originally posted. But it isn’t saying what you are saying it is saying. Arny is saying that there is no purpose in testing a broken amplifier. These days, any amp that doesn’t, for example, have a flat response and inaudible levels of distortion can really be considered as broken, or so badly designed that it isn't worth consideration. He is definitely NOT saying what you said above he is saying. If you doubt me on this, by all means PM Arny and ask him.

How do you know it is broken if you only test 1 sample. Are you saying that all manufacturers meet their quoted specs unless the amp is defective?
Neither you nor Arney has explained how to level match various frequencies without EQ.

 

He's talking about large deviations. Manufacturers these days work to very tight spec tolerances so you don't need to test multiple samples to know if one is way off. 

 

I suggest you PM Arny for more information.

post #1413 of 1944
Mudcat if have questions about or need clarification regarding arnys methods when testing amps why don't you ask him?
post #1414 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

How do you know it is broken if you only test 1 sample. Are you saying that all manufacturers meet their quoted specs unless the amp is defective?
Neither you nor Arney has explained how to level match various frequencies without EQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

He's talking about large deviations. Manufacturers these days work to very tight spec tolerances so you don't need to test multiple samples to know if one is way off. 

I suggest you PM Arny for more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Mudcat if have questions about or need clarification regarding arnys methods when testing amps why don't you ask him?

I asked in the original forum. The question has never been answered. I now ask each of you for the answer.
post #1415 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

How do you know it is broken if you only test 1 sample. Are you saying that all manufacturers meet their quoted specs unless the amp is defective?
Neither you nor Arney has explained how to level match various frequencies without EQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

He's talking about large deviations. Manufacturers these days work to very tight spec tolerances so you don't need to test multiple samples to know if one is way off. 

I suggest you PM Arny for more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Mudcat if have questions about or need clarification regarding arnys methods when testing amps why don't you ask him?

I asked in the original forum. The question has never been answered. I now ask each of you for the answer.

 

I didn’t answer you because I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Here are some resources which will enable you to better understand ABX tests and how they are properly performed:

 

http://bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing.htm

 

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16295

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test

post #1416 of 1944
How do I research amps? If I go by looks I buy all Mac. If cost I buy Emotiva. Performance I get whichever I like the best. But I can't ab but a few which I guess is ok. But I'm not sure ill buy from my dealer anymore.

Because I can't do pro tests I have to go by what I can test. And if I don't notice anything then it's based on look and cost. Because I'm OCD and other stuff I'd go for looks. I probably won't really be able to hide stuff entirely and if I could I'd still wanna look.

If I had the funds I'd go Mac all the way. I prefer the look so much over anything else. But since I don't I have to take cost into thought.
post #1417 of 1944
If I post pics of my room could people advise me what room treatments I should get? Ill start with that before any other changes as per suggestion.
post #1418 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

If I post pics of my room could people advise me what room treatments I should get? Ill start with that before any other changes as per suggestion.
You should start a dedicated thread in order to get the best possible help.
post #1419 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

How do I research amps? If I go by looks I buy all Mac. If cost I buy Emotiva. Performance I get whichever I like the best. But I can't ab but a few which I guess is ok. But I'm not sure ill buy from my dealer anymore.

Because I can't do pro tests I have to go by what I can test. And if I don't notice anything then it's based on look and cost. Because I'm OCD and other stuff I'd go for looks. I probably won't really be able to hide stuff entirely and if I could I'd still wanna look.

If I had the funds I'd go Mac all the way. I prefer the look so much over anything else. But since I don't I have to take cost into thought.

 

If we accept that whichever amp you choose, there will likely be no audible difference in SQ between one and another, then you may as well buy on appearance and price. If you can afford the McIntosh, buy it - it will be a great amp. Otherwise, find one you like the look of. Classé make very nice looking amps too.

post #1420 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

If I post pics of my room could people advise me what room treatments I should get? Ill start with that before any other changes as per suggestion.

 

Sure, but it will be off topic here. Why not start a new thread and give us the link to it?

post #1421 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

If I post pics of my room could people advise me what room treatments I should get? Ill start with that before any other changes as per suggestion.
You should start a dedicated thread in order to get the best possible help.

 

I agree. @buggs - that's two new threads for you!  We're way OT in this one already.

post #1422 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

He's talking about large deviations. Manufacturers these days work to very tight spec tolerances so you don't need to test multiple samples to know if one is way off. 

I suggest you PM Arny for more information.

This is what I was thinking too. And even if you bring in a defective item for testing, and you find a difference between two amps - then you've found that you can tell a difference between one amp performing waaay out of spec versus another one that may perform to spec.

If I was testing two amps, and it was obvious that one could hear a difference, I would not just state "case closed - amps can sound different!" I'd want to find out why it is. if I found that one of the items in the test performed way outside the manufacturers spec, then I'd have the answer.

It's MUCH like a reviewer reviewing a product for a web or magazine article, and selecting a damaged or defective product. In this case, a reviewer may describe a particular sound that is not a typical characteristic of the item in question. The reviewer might even give the product in question an overall negative review.

Is that fair Mudcat?

Thing is - if SS amp makers wanted to have their own "sound", they could very easily go about that route. Provide a bass hump to make it sound "warm" like a tube amp. But they don't. They make it as even as possible across the audible spectrum.
Edited by bo130 - 6/23/13 at 3:04pm
post #1423 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

He's talking about large deviations. Manufacturers these days work to very tight spec tolerances so you don't need to test multiple samples to know if one is way off. 

I suggest you PM Arny for more information.

This is what I was thinking too. And even if you bring in a defective item for testing, and you find a difference between two amps - then you've found that you can tell a difference between one amp performing waaay out of spec versus another one that may perform to spec.

If I was testing two amps, and it was obvious that one could hear a difference, I would not just state "case closed - amps can sound different!" I'd want to find out why it is. if I found that one of the items in the test performed way outside the manufacturers spec, then I'd have the answer.

It's MUCH like a reviewer reviewing a product for a web or magazine article, and selecting a damaged or defective product. In this case, a reviewer may describe a particular sound that is not a typical characteristic of the item in question. The reviewer might even give the product in question an overall negative review.

Is that fair Mudcat?

Thing is - if SS amp makers wanted to have their own "sound", they could very easily go about that route. Provide a bass hump to make it sound "warm" like a tube amp. But they don't. They make it as even as possible across the audible spectrum.

 

+1 to 100% of that.

post #1424 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Arny has stated that before an ABX test the amps are measured and the ones that measure the same are compared.

Seems like they have always sounded the same in such strictly controlled testing. Very surprising.

The amps don't have to measure the same - far from it. They have to meet certain minimum standards.

We started doing level-matched, time-synched, double blind tests in 1977 and right off found many good SS amplifiers that sounded the same.

If you study psychacoustics which is the science of sound quality, it confirms similar quality level requirements. Modern psychoacoustics arguably got both feet on the ground with the publication of the book Psychoacoustics: Facts and Models by Zwicker and Fastl which was first published in the late 1980s. Until then we were frankly somewhat mystified by what we (didn't) hear. I didn't actually read the book until the late 1990s, so due to my stupidity I stayed mystified longer than I needed to. ;-)
post #1425 of 1944
Emofest!!!

Check your e-mail inbox:

*******************************

Hi folks….It’s that time again!
Time for Emofest.

We’d like to take this opportunity to invite you to come join us, and to let you know that this year’s Emofest is going to be something extra special. It’s Emotiva’s 10th anniversary, so this is going to be the biggest, the baddest, and the most fun Emofest ever. Whether you’ve been to Emofest before, or it’s your first time, this is the one you don’t want to miss.

Tech Day: Saturday, August 31, 2013. 10 AM - 3 PM.

This is our behind-the-scenes day. You’ll get a first-hand look at all things Emotiva. Enjoy discussions and demonstration sessions led by our President Dan Laufman, our VP/CTO Lonnie Vaughn, and the engineering team. Check out our new manufacturing wing. (That’s right, we’re moving some of our manufacturing right here to our Franklin campus.) Have a sneak peek at some of our new products, and even see some “top secret” new product ideas.

The Main Event: Sunday, September 1, 2013. 10 AM - 5 PM.

Sunday is a full-out party for everyone: including Emotiva customers, their families, and live music aficionados. In addition to another behind-the-scenes day, we’re going to throw the biggest party you can imagine, with live entertainment - featuring local Nashville musicians, great local food, exciting tours, and giveaways.

So come see us and celebrate with us this year; to make the best even better - it’s totally free. You’ll make some new friends, and get to meet all of the great people behind your favorite Emotiva products. You might even go home with something new for your two-channel rig or home theater!

Don’t miss it!

Be sure to register early!
The last day to register is August 27th, 2013.
All guests who have not registered by the cut off day will be considered walk-ins.
post #1426 of 1944
Anyone know when the new XPA-5 is coming out? I see that Emotiva shows Unavailable for it now, just as I was going to purchase it.
post #1427 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiprecked View Post

Anyone know when the new XPA-5 is coming out? I see that Emotiva shows Unavailable for it now, just as I was going to purchase it.

I guess they just ran out of stock due to the current summer sale. The other option (if you don't mind) is to contact them and ask for a refurbished unit. Still free shipping, full warranty, etc. "except" for the return option. Not sure about how good the price is going to be. But, it is another option.

Good luck!
post #1428 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

I guess they just ran out of stock due to the current summer sale. The other option (if you don't mind) is to contact them and ask for a refurbished unit. Still free shipping, full warranty, etc. "except" for the return option. Not sure about how good the price is going to be. But, it is another option.

Good luck!


All of my AMPS from Emotiva are refurbs, all 3 came and look brand new and you could not tell it was a b stock item at all.

The discounts were large as well, it was a no brainer.
post #1429 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiprecked View Post

Anyone know when the new XPA-5 is coming out? I see that Emotiva shows Unavailable for it now, just as I was going to purchase it.

I guess they just ran out of stock due to the current summer sale. The other option (if you don't mind) is to contact them and ask for a refurbished unit. Still free shipping, full warranty, etc. "except" for the return option. Not sure about how good the price is going to be. But, it is another option.

Good luck!

I am guessing the generation two XPA series amps will be available by labor day...emofest or whatever they call it. I doubt any new current gen xpa series amp are being produced. Might be able to get a "b" stock unit if you call them. I also heard the price will go up some on the generation 2 xpa amps.
post #1430 of 1944
post #1431 of 1944
post #1432 of 1944
Still not recommended below 8 ohms in bridged mode...
post #1433 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Still not recommended below 8 ohms in bridged mode...

Yeah, that is a bummer!

mad.gif
post #1434 of 1944
I think this is all very timely. Just ordered one after my 12 year old B&K Ref200.5 amp died on me this weekend. smile.gif
post #1435 of 1944
I'm considering purchasing this amp and am curious if it will work well with my speakers. I have the Klipsch RF-62 II's that are rated at 125 Watts RMS and 500 Watts Peak and the Klipsch RC-62 II rated at 150 watts RMS and 600 Peak - only plan to power the front 3 right now. Since this amp has 200 watts per channel, will this overdrive my speakers?
post #1436 of 1944
I don't think you need to worry about overpowering. I do think the Klipsch generally have a high sensitivity, which might not work out so well. I've read about buzzing issues (after i purchased my XPA-5) and have issues with the XPA-5 myself (see the thread I started).
post #1437 of 1944
I was unable to pull up anything under the "Threads Started", can you post a link? How does it work with speakers whose RMS is lower than the rated power of the amplifier? I'm just curious why it doesn't overpower them.
post #1438 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post

I was unable to pull up anything under the "Threads Started", can you post a link? How does it work with speakers whose RMS is lower than the rated power of the amplifier? I'm just curious why it doesn't overpower them.

According to Emotiva (see link in #1431 from 'cr') the gen 2 version has improved noise floor of the amp so hopefully the hum issue mentioned by Megaj is resolved.

The power requirement doubles to raise 3 dB in sound level. Your Klipsch RF-62 II Reference is very efficient (NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 Ohms compatible, POWER HANDLING: 125W RMS / 500W Peak, SENSITIVITY: 97dB @ 2.83V / 1m) so I don't think you need to worry about overpowering it. Besides it is rated with 500w peak.
post #1439 of 1944
Thanks ShadowFox. I'm confused about the RMS rating then - isn't this what the speaker can handle continously? So, if i were to turn the Emotiva to peak performance, wouldn't I be feeding it nearly the full 200 watts continuous?
post #1440 of 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post

I'm considering purchasing this amp and am curious if it will work well with my speakers. I have the Klipsch RF-62 II's that are rated at 125 Watts RMS and 500 Watts Peak and the Klipsch RC-62 II rated at 150 watts RMS and 600 Peak - only plan to power the front 3 right now. Since this amp has 200 watts per channel, will this overdrive my speakers?

 

You won't overdrive the speakers, Tom. Especially as you have a volume control and (I assume) working ears ;)  Between them they will enable you to control the volume so that you never venture into speaker-damaging territory. The distortion that precedes destruction is so obvious you would back off way before things got dangerous. And, from what others have posted, your speakers can handle substantial peaks anyway. The benefit of big powerful amps like the XPA series is that you will have substantial headroom for peaks, which can bring a very clean, unfussed, unstressed sort of performance with it. 

 

One thing you might consider with those very efficient speakers is if you actually need so much amp power or of you could use instead one of the excellent (and cheaper) lower powered Emo amps?  Although, since Emo inexplicably dropped the brilliant, original UPA series, there may be nothing that tempts you there. 

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