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Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 21

post #601 of 1292
1/17/13 at 2:29am
+1
The only caveat I add is that 3 db can make the difference between clipping and not clipping.
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post #602 of 1292
1/17/13 at 2:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Ya there's not much audible difference between the Integra dtr 40.3 and the XPA-5 that I can hear. Integra does have pretty good sound though. Reviewers have used them and their processors a lot. Good brand. The only way I notice a difference is that using the XPA-5 is a bit louder then the Integra amp. So the Integra vol is set to 60. Speakers connected to Integra. It's loud. Keep the vol at 60 and connect the XPA-5 amp. Connect speakers to XPA. Sound is a tiny bit louder but overall sounds similar. So close I can't tell a difference.

If I played at loud vol I would possibly keep the amp because it does take off that load from the Integra. But I don't do loud.

 

See my reply earlier. If I were you I would return the amp under Emo's return policy.

 

Modern amps sound identical when working within their design parameters, as your Integra is.  You won’t hear any difference in 'sound quality' by using the Emo. The only time you need to change competent, well-designed amps is if your present amp is broken or if it cannot drive your speakers to the levels you need without clipping, or if your speakers present a very unusual or unstable load to the amp and the amp cannot cope with it (eg very low impedance). None of this applies to you which is why you cannot hear a difference.

 

The Emo amp sounds a little louder probably because the output gain on Emo amps is slightly higher than usual. You can easily get the same extra loudness by turning up the MV on your Integra!

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post #603 of 1292
1/17/13 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

+1
The only caveat I add is that 3 db can make the difference between clipping and not clipping.

 

Certainly can as +3dB is double the output power demand on the amp. But buggs1a listens at modest levels so he is unlikely to be clipping his 40.3. In fact if he can’t hear any difference between that and the Emo he definitely isn’t clipping it - he won't be clipping the Emo for sure.

 

I know you know this Theresa - just commenting generally. :)

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post #604 of 1292
1/17/13 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Certainly can as +3dB is double the output power demand on the amp. But buggs1a listens at modest levels so he is unlikely to be clipping his 40.3. In fact if he can’t hear any difference between that and the Emo he definitely isn’t clipping it - he won't be clipping the Emo for sure.

I know you know this Theresa - just commenting generally. smile.gif

All true, sorry about the comment. My listening levels must be too loud as at one time I had 90 watt amps and clipped them regularly. Now, with an XPA-3 driving my mid-woofers it gets plenty loud. Of course having a dedicated amp for each driver (and active crossovers) also provides higher levels without clipping.
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post #605 of 1292
1/17/13 at 3:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Certainly can as +3dB is double the output power demand on the amp. But buggs1a listens at modest levels so he is unlikely to be clipping his 40.3. In fact if he can’t hear any difference between that and the Emo he definitely isn’t clipping it - he won't be clipping the Emo for sure.

I know you know this Theresa - just commenting generally. smile.gif

All true, sorry about the comment. My listening levels must be too loud as at one time I had 90 watt amps and clipped them regularly. Now, with an XPA-3 driving my mid-woofers it gets plenty loud. Of course having a dedicated amp for each driver (and active crossovers) also provides higher levels without clipping.

 

No need to apologise. Yes, I listen loud too and feel more comfortable knowing I have a lot of power in reserve. All my speakers are 4 ohm models too so the current draw from the amps is higher. 

 

Buggs1a's experience is typical of many who swap amps unnecessarily I'm afraid. At least he had the good sense to realise that the sound is the same in his case. It is refreshing to read about someone who is honest with himself and remarkably immune to the placebo effect. How many times have we read, in similar circumstances, stuff like "the new amp revealed hidden detail in the mid-range with extra sparkle and clarity in the higher frequencies. Imaging is vastly improved too and the separation between instruments is palpable. The space between notes is inky black now. I am hearing things in all my CDs that I could not hear before. Even my wife noticed the difference."  LOL!!! rolleyes.gif

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post #606 of 1292
1/17/13 at 3:14am
Yes, it is a good trait to be so honest with one's self. The subjective search for the perfect amp seems never ending. There are many who spend $5,000 on an amp yet still are not satisfied and try one after another.
Edited by Theresa - 1/17/13 at 3:22am
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post #607 of 1292
1/17/13 at 3:28am
I don't want to get into the all amps sound the same discussion but I have heard differences between a few receivers in the past even though slight.

It is true that I can't hear a quality difference audibly. True. And I will return it. I'm disappointed.

I'm going to try the Marantz SR7007 today. Good thing is it has a feature I would like anyway sorry.
And I am truly honest. If I don't notice a difference I'm not sure there's anything that will make me think something different.

frown.gif
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post #608 of 1292
1/17/13 at 3:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

I don't want to get into the all amps sound the same discussion but I have heard differences between a few receivers in the past even though slight.

It is true that I can't hear a quality difference audibly. True. And I will return it. I'm disappointed.

I'm going to try the Marantz SR7007 today. Good thing is it has a feature I would like anyway sorry.
And I am truly honest. If I don't notice a difference I'm not sure there's anything that will make me think something different.

frown.gif

I would not say all receiver's sound the same. Amps do sound the same for the most part.
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post #609 of 1292
1/17/13 at 4:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

I don't want to get into the all amps sound the same discussion but I have heard differences between a few receivers in the past even though slight.

 

 

Oh you can hear differences between receivers - they can use all manner of sound processing, DSPs, tone control, equalisers etc. It's amps where, within the limitations I mentioned, you won’t hear any differences.

 

Quote:
It is true that I can't hear a quality difference audibly. True. And I will return it. I'm disappointed.

 

Yes, it must be frustrating. What was it that drove you to try an external amp in the first place?  What deficiencies in your current system were you trying to overcome?

 

 

Quote:
I'm going to try the Marantz SR7007 today. Good thing is it has a feature I would like anyway sorry.
And I am truly honest. If I don't notice a difference I'm not sure there's anything that will make me think something different.

 

What is it you expect the Marantz to do for you that the 40.3 doesn't do?  Sound-wise I mean?  It may have features you want of course that the Integra doesn’t have.

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post #610 of 1292
1/17/13 at 4:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes, it is a good trait to be so honest with one's self. The subjective search for the perfect amp seems never ending. There are many who spend $5,000 on an amp yet still are not satisfied and try one after another.

 

I imagine it is because they are looking for something that doesn't exist: audible differences between modern amps working within their design parameters.

 

Or, possibly, they have some deficiency in the sound their system produces and they mistakenly believe a new amp will overcome the deficiency and improve the SQ. Chances are, of course, that if the SQ is not as desired, then the room or the speakers is the culprit, so changing amps but leaving the latter as they are can't help.

 

As we (you and I) have said many times, a relatively small investment in room treatments is likely to make substantial differences to the SQ. Failing that, some decent electronic room EQ. And of course, getting better speakers and/or subs is always worthwhile. But electronics - pah!  The differences between them are either non-existent or minuscule and inaudible.

 

Time to walk my dog now - it's -5 degres here.

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post #611 of 1292
1/17/13 at 4:19am
Cold! Its 9' fahrenheit here. Supposed to be below zero f' in a couple of days. I think Audyssey provides more of an improvement than any amp could.
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post #612 of 1292
1/17/13 at 4:49am
sorry to hear you don't hear a difference...that must be disappointing. I know for me the difference was my avr was under powered for my listening levels and that having all channels driven with the same power made a huge difference! since your levels arent that high for spl there is where you wont notice a big difference if at all. I am not sure you were a candidate for a high powered extrenal amp in the first place.

don't be disappointed though...loving and lost is better than not loving at all....basically now you know and dont have to play the what-if game....and in the grand scheme of things only cost you a very small amount of money to try it. I WOULD recommend trying just a few more source material at higher levels just to see if you really dont need it before lugging that monster to the PO
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post #613 of 1292
1/17/13 at 5:35am
Thanks so much.
When I had the marantz sr7005 I liked the sound. It was unique. I know it was different then anything I heard before. I dont know how to describe it. I did not keep it because I had to manually change the sound output sometimes even though it was set for last used. I'm hoping for the same or better sound from the sr7007. If I try the 7007 I may or may not notice anything. If not back it goes.

My speakers are M&K lcr750 thx mk2 for the 3 front. The matching surr55t tripole for surround with SVS pc12 plus with 525 watt amp.

I am hoping for an improvement to tide me over till I get better speakers. However I'm thinking speakers will cost over $8k to be good enough. Kinda like the McIntosh XR100.

I get bored easy with home theater.
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post #614 of 1292
1/17/13 at 5:44am
looks like you need to watch more movies then hahaha
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post #615 of 1292
1/17/13 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Thanks so much. Got it.

I don't notice a difference in quality except the amp is slightly louder at the same vol as the receiver.

Then everything is operating correctly. I have an XPA-5 and have the exact same experience, which was what I was expecting. There may be marginal improvement over the internal amps in my Denon A100 when I really get to higher volumes, but no change, subjectively or measured at any reasonable volume.

There is a lot of unreasonable expectations and subjective observations when it comes to amps and the XPA-5 is no different. The XPA-5 is a fine product, but it (or any other amp) won't break the rules of physics, so unless you have low efficiency speakers or a huge room, buy it because you want it, not because you need it.
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post #616 of 1292
1/17/13 at 7:41am
Hi Brian.
What do you mean I need to watch more movies?
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post #617 of 1292
1/17/13 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Cold! Its 9' fahrenheit here. Supposed to be below zero f' in a couple of days. I think Audyssey provides more of an improvement than any amp could.

Sorry Theresa - I meant -5 centigrade - that's about 23 F so you are colder than we are ATM by quite a way.

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post #618 of 1292
1/17/13 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Hi Brian.
What do you mean I need to watch more movies?

if you are getting bored easily...you need to watch more moves...sorry it was a bad joke lol
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post #619 of 1292
1/17/13 at 8:12am
Na. Not a bad joke. Loloo. I just didn't get it cus things are hard for me to understand.
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post #620 of 1292
1/17/13 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

if you are getting bored easily...you need to watch more moves...sorry it was a bad joke lol

Are you hitting F5 every second to check status on your new toy?

redface.gif)
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post #621 of 1292
1/17/13 at 8:56am
Lol ^^^.

Would this system be good specially compared to my M&K?

http://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/index.php
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post #622 of 1292
1/17/13 at 11:07am
OT: Temp -- This morning was the first in a while we were above 0 F (-18 C) when I drove to work. Yesterday was -9 F (-23 C). Theresa, get ready for a cold blast...
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post #623 of 1292
1/17/13 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

OT: Temp -- This morning was the first in a while we were above 0 F (-18 C) when I drove to work. Yesterday was -9 F (-23 C). Theresa, get ready for a cold blast...

 

Point of order -9F is about about -13C, not -23 ;)

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post #624 of 1292
1/17/13 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

OT: Temp -- This morning was the first in a while we were above 0 F (-18 C) when I drove to work. Yesterday was -9 F (-23 C). Theresa, get ready for a cold blast...

Point of order -9F is about about -13C, not -23 wink.gif

-9F equals -22.77777777777778 C

check it yourself:

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm
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post #625 of 1292
1/17/13 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Certainly can as +3dB is double the output power demand on the amp. But buggs1a listens at modest levels so he is unlikely to be clipping his 40.3. In fact if he can’t hear any difference between that and the Emo he definitely isn’t clipping it - he won't be clipping the Emo for sure.

I know you know this Theresa - just commenting generally. smile.gif

All true, sorry about the comment. My listening levels must be too loud as at one time I had 90 watt amps and clipped them regularly. Now, with an XPA-3 driving my mid-woofers it gets plenty loud. Of course having a dedicated amp for each driver (and active crossovers) alsoc provides higher levels without clipping.

clipping is really bad stuff for the speakers so with more power you eliminate this danger...

im disappointed to hear that there is no sound quality improvements tho... under the product descriptions at emotiva for the amps they do clearly mention improvements...?

i do like it loud sometimes and my denon 3313 just dont have enough power at 125 wpc to take me up to reference levels.. starts to clip.. i set my limiter to -10 db sounds great there
but sometimes with a good tune you want a bit more eh..

cheers
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post #626 of 1292
1/17/13 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes, it is a good trait to be so honest with one's self. The subjective search for the perfect amp seems never ending. There are many who spend $5,000 on an amp yet still are not satisfied and try one after another.

I imagine it is because they are looking for something that doesn't exist: audible differences between modern amps working within their design parameters.

Or, possibly, they have some deficiency in the sound their system produces and they mistakenly believe a new amp will overcome the deficiency and improve the SQ. Chances are, of course, that if the SQ is not as desired, then the room or the speakers is the culprit, so changing amps but leaving the latter as they are can't help.

As we (you and I) have said many times, a relatively small investment in room treatments is likely to make substantial differences to the SQ. Failing that, some decent electronic room EQ. And of course, getting better speakers and/or subs is always worthwhile. But electronics - pah!  The differences between them are either non-existent or minuscule and inaudible.

Time to walk my dog now - it's -5 degres here.

is that -5 c or -5 f

im plus 1 c today in Canada.... i got to get me some more power...

so you think those product description of the amp at emotiva are misleading? sonic nirvana!
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post #627 of 1292
1/17/13 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

is that -5 c or -5 f

im plus 1 c today in Canada.... i got to get me some more power...

so you think those product description of the amp at emotiva are misleading? sonic nirvana!

Yes, sonic nirvana rolleyes.gif Marketing is often misleading (or outright lies). Cold here today but tomorrow it's forecast to be in the '30s f.
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post #628 of 1292
1/17/13 at 1:24pm
On the Emo forum, it's funny the twisted logic that gets used. The fanboy is adamant that the Emotiva amps are just as good as anything out there, and usually it's the XPA series owners who make this boast. Fair enough so far. But now that the XPR series is out, you see loyal XPA owners upgrading to the new series and saying that the higher quality parts will give superior SQ. Mind you, a doubling of the watts, from 200 to 400 still only nets you 3 more db, but don't get confused by the facts! smile.gif
Edited by runnin' - 1/17/13 at 1:31pm
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post #629 of 1292
1/17/13 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

is that -5 c or -5 f

im plus 1 c today in Canada.... i got to get me some more power...

so you think those product description of the amp at emotiva are misleading? sonic nirvana!

Yes, sonic nirvana rolleyes.gif Marketing is often misleading (or outright lies). Cold here today but tomorrow it's forecast to be in the '30s f.


wow just step out to get the mail cold front came early... -10 C now.... thats the coldest its been this yr... global warming does have a few benefits around here... usually we get some -30sC stuff
this time of yr but its been about 8 yrs now... and summers way to hot.. need to move farther North.. like the dinosaures did...
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post #630 of 1292
1/17/13 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

OT: Temp -- This morning was the first in a while we were above 0 F (-18 C) when I drove to work. Yesterday was -9 F (-23 C). Theresa, get ready for a cold blast...

Point of order -9F is about about -13C, not -23 wink.gif

-9F equals -22.77777777777778 C

check it yourself:

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm

 

:)  My bad - I was looking at +9F - +9F is 13C. My apologies to Don and thanks to you for the correction.  It's decades since we used Fahrenheit in Europe - not that that's an excuse!

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