Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 28

I know Brian gave you a hand posting some pics of your room, but to be honest they are very dark. Is there a chance for you to share new pics with the lights on or windows open?

I guess, you should be able to receive more feedback in that area, if people are actually able to see clearly what you have in the room.

Cheers!

Yes in the last couple pages Brian was so kind and posted them for me.

I think they're bright enough in general but could use way more light yes.
I have no other light to use and can't open my window. It's covered up completely to keep the sun out lol.

I can possibly try to figure something out.

My uncle just died. With Jesus now.

My condolences on the loss of your uncle..

I'm really sorry to hear that. I'll keep your uncle on my prayers.

 

Hi - I am using GIK stuff. 244 broadband absorbers across the wall/ceiling corners and the front corners, with tri-traps in the rear corners. I need more 244s at the back of the room and this is in hand.

 

If I was going again, I'd make my own now I see how relatively easy it is.

 

I do have one pic somewhere  -  I will find it and post it later.

I have to say the Aperion Verus grand speakers intrigue me. I am curious if any of you have ever heard them? The few reviews from hometheaterreviews and some others give high praises. Also, I am appreciative you guys posted a link for bass traps. I might look at building some but with my configuration and the fact I might not be in the home but only 1 or 2 more years I might just wait on the undertaking. Great info guys!!

Passive bi-amping has no real world effect other than wasting an amp channel and wire costs.

It's their marketers that say this. I don't need to try it. Not only do I know it from the electrical principles I've learned but I also use active crossovers (active biamping). I use miniDSPs as electronic crossovers with an amp channel for each driver. This is what really works. But it is probably beyond your knowledge and skill. Try it and you will see.

PS. the internal crossover of the speaker prevents the woofers from affecting the tweeters in the way you state.
Edited by Theresa - 1/27/13 at 4:10am

 

Yes, I have tried it.

 

Passive biamping, as Theresa puts it, is a waste of an amp and some wire. It can't make any audible difference unless Denon etc have found a way to bypass the laws of physics. And you remember what Scottie said about that - even in Stardate 5928.5 it stil would not be possible :)  The reason is this pesky, irritating little thing known as the Superposition Theorem. You'd have to google that to find out about it as to discuss it here would take us waaaay off topic. Basically it says that where a circuit has more than one independent source (this is the additional wires running from the additional amp) the voltage/current (it makes no difference) is equal to the sum of the voltage/current you would see if each independent circuit acted on its own (ie each amp in the 'biamped' system was just connected on its own). You will find deeper explanations of this by googling if you want to check it out more.

 

So, when you 'passively biamp' the Superposition Theorem of Physics proves that you can't in fact make any difference, so no difference = no audible difference.

 

The next question is, why do you feel so strongly that you CAN hear a difference. And the answer to that is your pesky brain doesn’t work the way we'd like it to work. Nobody's does - I'm not singling out your brain for special attention :) Your brain (and everyone's) has not been designed to provide you with an objective view of reality. That is why for thousands of years people believed that the sun revolved around the earth - they could SEE it did, using their eyes and their brain. It was 'obvious'. It was similarly obvious that the earth was flat. Later, some clever dudes came along and proved, by independent scientific examination of the phenomena, that the sun did NOT go around the earth at all. For their pains, they were put in prison. People could see that the sun went around the earth and the evidence of their own eyes was far more powerful than some squiggles of math on a bit of paper. Now of course, you won't even get a small fine, let alone be put in prison, for suggesting that the sun does not revolve around the earth.

 

So..... your brain (everyone's brain - this is getting old real fast - can we assume that when I say 'your brain' I mean all the brains in the world today?) your brain fools you into thinking you can hear a difference when no difference exists. This can be placebo effect or expectation bias or a number of other things. It's probably expectation bias though. You wired up for 'biamping' and you expected it to make a difference (two amps, more wire!! Hey - how can it not make a difference?) so your brain told you "yeah deltadube, listen to those highs now - much clearer huh? And the separation - that's better too huh?  And the imaging? Wow!.  The fly in the ointment.... Superposition Theorem. Damn!

 

If you had the facilities to conduct a blind test between your 'biamped' system and your 'regular system' I would be more than happy to bet you my house that you wouldn't reliably be able to tell one system setup from the other. Heck, I know you couldn't, because there is no difference. The laws of Physics are on my side, whereas all you have on yours is that tricky human brain. Just like the dudes who threw Copernicus into prison. 

 

For more reading on 'passive biamping', check this out:

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bi-wire_bi-amp.htm

 

Of course, proper biamping, with active electronic crossovers, like Theresa has, and like you find in 'active' or powered loudspeakers - that is a different thing altogether and has huge benefits.

 

Sorry if this is causing rain on your parade - it is not my intention. The good news is, passive biamping does no harm so you can leave it all set up if that is the way you like it. I mean, look hw many times Jim ignored Scottie..... :)

 

Yes, I should have mentioned the internal crossovers in the speakers too. I just concentrated on the impossibility of ignoring the laws of physics in the actual amp/wiring side.

 

Deltadube - Theresa is right - you would need to open up your speakers, rip out the crossover (or remove it carefully if you're that kind of guy) and replace it with active, powered, electronic crossovers. I would here add the caution I see at the end of every programme of MythBusters on TV: Do not try this at home!  (Do not even try it at a neighbour's house).

Yes, DIY active crossovers are a challenge. MiniDSPs make it easier and do it better than previous alternatives but it still requires a DIY speaker mentality. You must be ready to essentially build your own speakers with a knowledge of how crossovers function. As you say, don't do this if you don't know what your doing, you can easily burn out tweeters which in my case cost hundreds of dollars.

Just curious why do speakers have 4 binding post then? Just for biwiring?

It's best just to find what set up that in your system and your room sounds best to your ears, and ignore the lectures and "it's all in your head" comments.

 

Marketing. It makes them look 'audiophile' and costs next to nothing to add them. They serve no real purpose. Biwiring is even more pointless than 'passive biamping'. Well maybe not - at least you don't get to waste a whole amp - just the wire ;)

Keith, would you agree that a good 3 ft expensive power cord benefits sound more than biamping ?

If you are biwiring you should also use cable elevators to keep the current flowing smoothly.

Just thought I'd post an update in regards to my experience with the xpa-5 since I have had it connected for several days now.

I have really put my system through its paces with a variety of music and it all has sounded sooo good....good as in clear and clean. I had a co-worker over for an evening of music listening. She is in her own right a budding audio enthusiast. Her dad is a consultant for a custom installer and she has had the opportunity to listen to a variety of gear when growing up. She like me is a music lover first. She was very impressed with the clarity, loudness and fullness of my set up. She never heard of emotiva before, and now she wants me to help her set up a system for her in a few months and she is very open to emotiva gear, especially when i told her the price tag of the amp.

I have only watched one blu-ray movie since the xpa-5 install...Ted...good comedy flick, but not much for reference demo material. I have however been re-watching the first season of Babylon 5 on dvd, again not the best "reference level source". This particular TV series on dvd was always difficult for me to dial in to sound "right" before. Especially with respect to the voices. I would either have to turn it up to where voices started to sound a bit harsh or I would have enable dynamic volume in order to get it to sound "right" to me, which of course changes the dynamic range of the source. With the xpa-5, this is no longer the case. It is very clear and I can fully understand the dialog and can have it at a nice volume level to fully experience the "fullness" of the surround mix. I was not expecting this and am very impressed. My set up is not my first experience with hi-fi gear. I grew up in a house hold where dad always had the latest and greatest a/v stuff and have heard a variety of speakers, amps, receivers etc over the years. However, finally I feel like I am on "par" with what I remember hearing when growing up...even though my speakers themselves are not exceptionally high-end.

One interesting thing I have discovered in regards to HBO broadcasts. I have read here on avs about members experiencing small static pops when watching HBO, even at moderate and low volume levels...evidently it has something to do with the way HBO compresses their content. I never heard them previously, but while channel surfing I landed upon HBO playing Galaxy Quest and I watched a few minutes of it and l heard the popping noises for the first time. I can only guess that either the xpa-5 is more sensitive to picking up this compressed distortion or that dish network has changed the way HBO is fed to me within the last week.

Something else that I have done set up wise with the inclusion of the xpa-5 is that I have set my crossovers much lower. Previously I pretty much did the 80hz crossover thing, even though audyssey in conjunction with onkyo's auto cal routine would measure the -3 frequency response in my room of my speakers at 40hz. I did play with the settings sometimes, and would sometimes prefer a 60hz crossover on my mains. Now with the xpa-5 in the mix it allows the lower notes to be played much more easily and I have left all my speakers at 40hz after running audyssey. I must say that there is a noticeable increase in volume and clarity of mid bass frequencies. Also keep in mind that my subs are not the best out there either (dual psw505's). I haven't decided for sure if I am going to keep my crossovers at 40hz, but it does sound really good crossed that low now. Much less boominess with the lower crossover, though I didn't have a ton of boominess before, there was just enough to be annoying sometimes. For this reason alone I may keep my crossover lower for now until new speakers and subs arrive at my doorstep...but that probably wont be for at least a year if not longer.

All in all in am very pleased with the inclusion of the xpa-5 into my set up. When I moved into my new house late last year and ended up with a larger space then I previously had in the old house, my gear just couldn't keep up with the volume levels I desired at the distance I now use. Previously my main listening position was just under 7 ft from the speakers, now I am much closer to 10.5 ft. That bit of difference along with the increase volume size of my new room was just enough to show the weakness in my avr. Now does everyone need an amp?....not likely, but in the right circumstances adding an external amp can certainly overcome weaknesses when higher spl levels are desired. I also plan to add some room treatments to my room in the near future, as I do get a fair amount of resonating throughout and it is sometimes annoying, but until I add them, I can just turn up the loud knob until I can no longer hear the room resonating

Its good to hear of another female audio enthusiast.

lol..your comment took me by surprise for a moment....I thought you were calling me a female...then i realized you were referring to my co-worker.