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Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 30
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- chalugadp
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It looks like 5 owners report the sibilance. One changed his speakers and it's still there, one changed his pre pro and then had to change the Emotiva amp and others changed amps. I'm not sure what that has to do with kool aid and trolls(I think you're mixing up your metaphors), but your response seems to mirror some of the fan boys over there.
You done trolling this thread now?
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i would put room acoustics ahead of speakers...
cheers
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It looks like 5 owners report the sibilance. One changed his speakers and it's still there, one changed his pre pro and then had to change the Emotiva amp and others changed amps. I'm not sure what that has to do with kool aid and trolls(I think you're mixing up your metaphors), but your response seems to mirror some of the fan boys over there.
It seems as if you troll in the Emo threads. I suppose a defective amp could cause sibilance or other abnormal sounds. This would be the exception and not the rule as you would have others believe.
I change out equipment too frequently to be a fan boy of any brand. However I have owned Sherbourn, B&K, Parasound and Emotiva amps to mention a few. None was better than the Emotiva.
Amps are amps if properly designed and working within their design parameters. I get as fed up of typing that as I am sure others do of reading it, but the point never seems to get across fully. You are right when you say of the other amps that none was better than the Emotiva, given that Emotiva amps are well designed.
Emotiva amps do not 'cause' sibilance. End of. If someone has sibilance in his system it means that a frequency band of 5-6 KHz is being emphasised for some reason (I am assuming tweeters are not broken etc). If you look at the FR plots for the Emo amps there is no such emphasis, so the Emo amps simply cannot be responsible for it. Anyone suffering from this problem needs to look elsewhere to find the source of the sibilance and fix it. Also some people are especially sensitive to sibilance and 'go looking' for it. Sometimes there is natural sibilance on a voice and that needs to be considered too. But whatever causes it, it ain't the Emos.
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Probably right. A well treated room can make a $2,000 set of speakers sound like a $20,000 set (in an untreated room). But if you put a $20,000 set of speakers in a bad, untreated room, they will almost always sound like cr&p. And room treatments are really, really cheap if you DIY. By far the biggest ever bang for the buck anyone will ever usually get.
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Probably right. A well treated room can make a $2,000 set of speakers sound like a $20,000 set (in an untreated room). But if you put a $20,000 set of speakers in a bad, untreated room, they will almost always sound like cr&p. And room treatments are really, really cheap if you DIY. By far the biggest ever bang for the buck anyone will ever usually get.
+1
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Edited by Theresa - 2/4/13 at 4:52am
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Back in the '80s I had some low-end Polk bookshelf speakers. I had a sibilance problem but attribute it to the crossover, a single capacitor on the tweeter and the low quality of the tweeter. This of course made me more conscious of sibilance which my mind then accentuated. I am currently using three Emotiva amps and they sound as good as any amp I have used in the past and there is no accentuated sibilance.
IKWYM. Sibilance is one of those things that, once heard, can result in an almost obsessive desire to go looking (listening) for it. I hope this discussion doesn't prompt people to do that!
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Amps are amps if properly designed and working within their design parameters. I get as fed up of typing that as I am sure others do of reading it, but the point never seems to get across fully. You are right when you say of the other amps that none was better than the Emotiva, given that Emotiva amps are well designed.
Emotiva amps do not 'cause' sibilance. End of. If someone has sibilance in his system it means that a frequency band of 5-6 KHz is being emphasised for some reason (I am assuming tweeters are not broken etc). If you look at the FR plots for the Emo amps there is no such emphasis, so the Emo amps simply cannot be responsible for it. Anyone suffering from this problem needs to look elsewhere to find the source of the sibilance and fix it. Also some people are especially sensitive to sibilance and 'go looking' for it. Sometimes there is natural sibilance on a voice and that needs to be considered too. But whatever causes it, it ain't the Emos.
That's all well and good. So why are 5 people in that thread reporting sibilance? One guy reported changing his speakers from Paradigm to "Dyns" or something like that, and it was still present? Any any rate, it's just a thread and a buyer might want to check out the opinions, no need to get bent out of shape over it.
The current theory over there is this Butler hybrid amp the fellow who started the thread with may be rolled off on the highs thus mitigating the sibilance that he is now getting with the XPA-5 on certain tracks or recordings that he never got before. So yes, it is music or speaker related, but an amp can reduce it. They've had success with Lexicon and Parasound too. Just read the thread, it's all there.(These are all American amp designs that you may not be familiar with. The Butler has tubes, for instance, in a tube buffer stage.)
Edited by runnin' - 2/4/13 at 8:24am
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I'm sure there are 5 owners of any amp that has any significant volume of units sold can say the same.
I'm no Emotiva lover but the odds that they are making amps with unique congenital problems with sibillance is about zero. If memory serves Emotiva publish comprehensive bench test results for their amps on their web site, right? If they had such a problem it would show up there.
That just proves that those weren't the sources of the sibilance in those cases.
The most likely causes of sibilance are the wrong speakers in the wrong room with the wrong recordings.
The other situation is that it seems less likely that a stand-alone power amp is being used with an automated system optimization facility such as Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO. They can be big helps for sibilance problems.
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Amps are amps if properly designed and working within their design parameters. I get as fed up of typing that as I am sure others do of reading it, but the point never seems to get across fully. You are right when you say of the other amps that none was better than the Emotiva, given that Emotiva amps are well designed.
Emotiva amps do not 'cause' sibilance. End of. If someone has sibilance in his system it means that a frequency band of 5-6 KHz is being emphasised for some reason (I am assuming tweeters are not broken etc). If you look at the FR plots for the Emo amps there is no such emphasis, so the Emo amps simply cannot be responsible for it. Anyone suffering from this problem needs to look elsewhere to find the source of the sibilance and fix it. Also some people are especially sensitive to sibilance and 'go looking' for it. Sometimes there is natural sibilance on a voice and that needs to be considered too. But whatever causes it, it ain't the Emos.
That's all well and good. So why are 5 people in that thread reporting sibilance? One guy reported changing his speakers from Paradigm to "Dyns" or something like that, and it was still present? Any any rate, it's just a thread and a buyer might want to check out the opinions, no need to get bent out of shape over it.
I have no idea why 5 people are reporting it. It doesn't seem like a huge number though. There could be various reasons for sibilance but it is very unlikely to be the amp - that's all I am saying. I am not disputing there is sibilance in their systems - but I have examined the results of the measurements of Emo amps and can see no reason to believe they are inducing sibilance.
An improperly designed amp that "rolls off the highs" (amp as tone control) can obviously mask the sibilance. So can using a treble filter. Nobody would dispute that. But the real solution is to find out the cause of the sibilance and fix it.
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Probably right. A well treated room can make a $2,000 set of speakers sound like a $20,000 set (in an untreated room). But if you put a $20,000 set of speakers in a bad, untreated room, they will almost always sound like cr&p. And room treatments are really, really cheap if you DIY. By far the biggest ever bang for the buck anyone will ever usually get.
your right again K
heres my 1st absorber for under 20.. i figure about 8-12 of these will do alot of good in my yet to be built room.. im a slow builder. this trap really works ..
few on the ceilings walls and corners.. but as a few people have said not to much... few at a time ....
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A power amp does not "push" anything, but provides current into a given load at the actual voltage of the power rails controlled by the source voltage (input voltage). All it has to do, is fulfill the current needs at a given speaker impedance at a provided voltage. It's sort of a proportional valve in this respect, which has it throughput controlled by the tube diameter at the output (the load) and the driving voltage determined by the source.
The lowest impedance by todays standards (4 ohm speaker) is about 2 Ohm or higher, exceptions possible. But there are very few amps, which will be stable at loads below 2 Ohm, because there is normally no real world need for this. Thus no one designs for this abnormal load anymore (exceptions possible).
35 Amp current would need huge heat sinks or extraordinary active cooling to handle the heat dissipation need to run this for more than a short time.
Most power amp transistors are high current devices anyway.
Edited by gurkey - 2/5/13 at 2:48am
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No Freudian slip, I prefer "goddess" to "god."
I'm currently driving my tweeters with a UPA-5. Please note, I do NOT use passive biamping but rather active crossovers. No sibilance. I do have good tweeter's though.
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Probably right. A well treated room can make a $2,000 set of speakers sound like a $20,000 set (in an untreated room). But if you put a $20,000 set of speakers in a bad, untreated room, they will almost always sound like cr&p. And room treatments are really, really cheap if you DIY. By far the biggest ever bang for the buck anyone will ever usually get.
your right again K
heres my 1st absorber for under 20.. i figure about 8-12 of these will do alot of good in my yet to be built room.. im a slow builder. this trap really works ..
few on the ceilings walls and corners.. but as a few people have said not to much... few at a time ....
Nice job! If it is a broadband absorber ("bass trap") they say you can't have too many but I am with you - go steadily and add a few at a time. If you have REW you can use ETCs and waterfalls to help decide where they go. If not, start with any of the 12 corners in the room and add them in a controlled way, listening each time that you make changes.
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No, what I meant was, how many amps, or what current does this amp push? In other words, a 140wpc amp running at 20amps will not even touch a 70wpc runnning at 35amps. Im in the market for a new amp, well my first amp I should say, and all Ive heard during my research is that the current of the amp will say more about its ability to push out sound than just its watts per channel. Very few manufacturers even post that in their specs. Ive seen a few, but not many.
The amount of current delivered by the amp depends on the load connected to it. This is why a 4 ohm load draws more current than an 8 ohm load (less resistance enables the amp to deliver more current for its rated power). I think you are assuming the amp somehow 'pushes' current to its load but in reality it is the opposite way around - the less resistive the load the more current the amp will deliver - ie the load draws the current required not the other way around.
- Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread
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