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Projector choices for really big screens?

post #1 of 20
3/7/10 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone,

I'm wondering what folks are using and/or recommending for projector and screen combinations for really big rooms... say 12 - 14 feet wide screen sizes or bigger... thanks in advance...
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post #2 of 20
3/7/10 at 1:33pm
Whats your budget?

And is this for a 12-14ft 1.78 or 2.35 screen??
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post #3 of 20
3/7/10 at 11:18pm
Thread Starter 
Putting budget aside for now... just want to know what people are actually using for these types of installs... regardless of price or aspect ratio...
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post #4 of 20
3/8/10 at 12:11am
Digital Projection will have projectors able to light up that size screen.
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post #5 of 20
3/8/10 at 6:46am
Check in with the < $3000 forum - there is a thread on a new LG LCOS projector that is a light canon, but not the best blacks.

- Andy
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post #6 of 20
3/8/10 at 8:45am
Budget is important to know. Mainly to find out if reasonable results can even be acheived...
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post #7 of 20
3/8/10 at 9:37am
IIRC Art is running a Sim2 HT5000 on a 14' scope screen.
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post #8 of 20
3/8/10 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys...

I was trying to get a feel for real world applications and seeing what the options and tradeoffs were before setting a budget. For example, will this require a $40K projector or can it be done with a $10K projector with a special screen? I'm sure there would be trade offs and compromises between those arrangements, but I'm just trying to get educated as to what people are actually doing and what the options are...
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post #9 of 20
3/8/10 at 11:26am
No screen will make up for getting the correct projector. There are some that do better than others but that is like getting an average car and putting better tires on it to make it do what you want. That being said, it doesn't mean you have to spend a boatload. It all is in your expectations. There are some people with $2500 projectors on 15' screens that are happy. Me personally....no way.
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post #10 of 20
3/8/10 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Jason... Would I be wrong in saying that this starts with light output? Not marketing numbers, but real light output... If so, then if you have the real output numbers, then you can at least determine what projectors are capable of emitting enough light to meet a certain fL level for a given screen, correct?

After you figure what projectors are even capable of doing such a job, then you can weigh out the tradeoffs and differences that exist between those pjs... At least that's my thinking... there can't be that many that put out enough light to do something like a 14' wide screen at 16 fL or more.
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post #11 of 20
3/9/10 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering what folks are using and/or recommending for projector and screen combinations for really big rooms... say 12 - 14 feet wide screen sizes or bigger... thanks in advance...

I have a 12 foot wide HP screen in a light controlled room. Until last month we had an ae900 as our projector. Loved it. Now we have an rs10 and love it even more.


Purchased the screen and rs10 from Jason.
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post #12 of 20
3/9/10 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Thanks Jason... Would I be wrong in saying that this starts with light output? Not marketing numbers, but real light output... If so, then if you have the real output numbers, then you can at least determine what projectors are capable of emitting enough light to meet a certain fL level for a given screen, correct?

After you figure what projectors are even capable of doing such a job, then you can weigh out the tradeoffs and differences that exist between those pjs... At least that's my thinking... there can't be that many that put out enough light to do something like a 14' wide screen at 16 fL or more.

Exactly. And that in line poses the problems. Very few companies rate them realistically to what you will get (JVC is one of the only ones). So this comparing becomes a bit more challenging).
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post #13 of 20
3/9/10 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Exactly. And that in line poses the problems. Very few companies rate them realistically to what you will get (JVC is one of the only ones). So this comparing becomes a bit more challenging).

Yes. And that's what good technical reviews from credible reviewers are for. For example, the JVC RS25, rated at 50k:1 cr has better blacks than the Epson 8500 rated at 200k:1 cr. Not brightness ratings I know. But same idea. You read credible reviews to find out.
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post #14 of 20
3/10/10 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys... I've gone through the list of "Highly Recommended" PJs (as well as a couple of others I've read about) over at Projector Central and have gleened off the lumen ratings for each in the brightest modes other than "dynamic", which is usually determined to be unwatchable. The non-dynamic mode ratings of the most powerful light canons are:

1. Epson Home Cinema 8500 UB: 1,602 lumens
2. LG CF181D: 1,219 lumens
3. Optoma HD8600: 1,200 lumens
4. Panasonic PT-AE4000U: 950 lumens
5. BenQ W6000: 853 lumens
6. Sony HW15: 830 lumens
7. JVC DLA-RS25: 800 lumens
8. JVC DLA-RS10U: 775 lumens

Of course, I can't find "real" lumen ratings for some others that might fit the bill like:
Digital Projection M-Vision Cine 260
Runco Reflection RS-1100
Runco Video Extreme VX-2000D
Digital Projection dVision 30 1080p XC
Sim2 Grand Cinema C3X Lumis

I have also done the following calculations for varying screen sizes, aspect ratios, and lumen readings:

CIH screen height: 71" (14' wide screen)
2.35:1 ratio: screen width = 168" diagonal = 183"; 1,325 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 2.071 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)
1.78:1 ratio: screen width = 126" diagonal = 145"; 994 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,553 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)

CIH screen height: 66" (13' wide screen)
2.35:1 ratio: screen width = 156" diagonal = 170"; 1,144 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,788 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)
1.78:1 ratio: screen width = 117" diagonal = 135"; 858 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,341 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)

CIH screen height: 61" (12' wide screen)
2.35:1 ratio: screen width = 144" diagonal = 156"; 976 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,525 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)
1.78:1 ratio: screen width = 108" diagonal = 124"; 732 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,144 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)

CIH screen height: 56" (11' wide screen)
2.35:1 ratio: screen width = 132" diagonal = 143"; 770 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,283 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)
1.78:1 ratio: screen width = 100" diagonal = 114"; 581 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 968 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)

CIH screen height: 51" (10' wide screen)
2.35:1 ratio: screen width = 120" diagonal = 130"; 638lumens needed to reach 16fL, 1,063 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)
1.78:1 ratio: screen width = 91" diagonal = 104"; 483 lumens needed to reach 16fL, 806 lumens needed to reach 25fL (1.0 gain screen)

Are screens this big (14' wide) just really uncommon for home theater? Only 2 pjs I've found thus far have the capability to light up a 14' screen to a minimum of 16 fL... Any help with reviews or real world lumen ratings from PJs I haven't listed would be greatly appreciated...
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post #15 of 20
3/10/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Of course, I can't find "real" lumen ratings for some others that might fit the bill

Unfortunately you haven't found "real" lumen specs even for the ones you list except maybe the JVC's. ProjectorCentral is not a good source of real performance specs. Go over to Projectorreviews and cull through the reviews. There you'll find real, measured results for many of the projectors in your list. You also get the advantage of having them measured with a single methodology instead of relying on manufacturer's varying market-speak. That way, even if the methodology is flawed, the results can be compared in a relative manner.

EDIT: I just have to point out... PC is so useless. The projector on the bottom (the JVC RS10) is BRIGHTER than the projector at the top (the Epson 8500) when properly calibrated.
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post #16 of 20
3/10/10 at 3:48pm
It depends on how accurate you want the colors and blacks to be. If you don't really care about accurate calibration and just are looking for good picture with pop, you can pretty much get any projector on that list and be happy with the result. More anal you get with the details and accuracy, more you can expect to pay.
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post #17 of 20
3/10/10 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks erkq... I'll go check out the other reviews at Projectorreviews...

Xradman, I'm just trying to find pjs that put out enough light so that I can make a decision between them... I haven't even factored in price yet... Really, looking at calibrated output, only the LG can even come close to lighting up a 1.0 gain screen to at least 16fL... 19.62fL for 1.78:1 ratio and 14.72fL for 2.35:1 ratio...
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post #18 of 20
3/10/10 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_zilla View Post

Are screens this big (14' wide) just really uncommon for home theater?

I'd say yes, it is rather uncommon for people to have 14' wide 1.0 gain screens, at least in this ($3k - $20k) forum. As you've calculated you need a lot of lumens light up a 14' wide, unity gain screen. The difficulty increases "exponentially" (I use the term loosely) as you increase screen size.

The light required grows as the square of the width, so while I have a ~9' wide scope screen, and that's quite easy to light with any of the moderately bright machines (Planar 8150 personally), a 14' screen while only about 50% wider requires almost 3x the lumens.

I'd guess most in this section with >10' screens are using screens with gain, maybe a lot of it (like a HighPower). The rest are in the "big iron" like Art's HT5000, or the DP machines.
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post #19 of 20
3/10/10 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

If you don't really care about accurate calibration and just are looking for good picture with pop, you can pretty much get any projector on that list and be happy with the result.

Not so much with the JVC's. While they are the brightest when calibrated, they don't have much more to offer when in their brightest mode... only on the order of 100 or 200 more lumens!
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post #20 of 20
3/11/10 at 5:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I'd say yes, it is rather uncommon for people to have 14' wide 1.0 gain screens.

I don't see that it's common to have a 14' wide display with ANY screen... or those who have them are too busy watching movies to reply...
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