difficulty pulling in one High VHF KFLA station Los Angeles

I got north view window on top floor that is facing the Mt Wilson (35 miles) north direction where towers are (no obstructions to line of sight). *I made my own 8 wisker type HDTV antenna via instructions on internet made with 12 gauge copper wire instead of hanger (diagram picture attached). *Results are good for UHF channels which average strength is 50-60%. I even get a station 63 miles away in San Bernadino KVCR ch24 (17% strength bar) slightly north eastern direction. Strength bar for high vhf channels of 7 9 11 13 are 40-60% . But, there is a station called KFLA ch 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4 that eludes me with 0-10% which gives some intermittent of video and audio. KFLA is located at Mt Wilson. So distance is same as other UHF and VHF stations but signal is weaker - ? I am currently considering the winegard YA 6713 with an A/B switcher ($70) . I have my current home-brew antenna right up against the window. *I am not allowed to put antennas on the roof or outside wall (apartment building). * What is your opinion? Is there a specially tuned high vhf antenna I can build to solve this? The YA6713 is to huge to hang in my bedroom.
thank you*
Pete

ARXAW thank you, I will give the circle loop and rabbit ears a try.
For the circle - do both ends go to balun? I always wondered if connecting like that causes short?

ProjectSHO89 thank you - the programing on this station is unusual - 8.1 Australian TV, 8.3 Old movies, women mud wrestling - very odd mix. I will give up if the antenna is too huge or expensive.

Walford thank you - TVfool reports: Max ERP: 0.300 kw Eff. Pwr: 0.190 kw
When I go to website of the station it says: KFLA-LD is a digital low-power television station licensed to Los Angeles, California. The station broadcasts digitally on VHF channel 8, and is the first station located at Mount Wilson to broadcast solely with a digital signal. KFLA went on the air on October 17, 2007. http://www.kfla.tv/index.html

Does that mean they are putting out a lower signal the any other station?

Attached pics: my window, Antennaweb and TV fool.

Thank you all for the good ideas to catching ch8. I tried the following today:
1) RCA rabbit ears - 0% on signal bar
2) 24 inch circle of 3/8 copper tubing with 3/4 inch gap - 12% on signal bar
3) VHF bow tie -12 guage copper wire 31 inch length - 12% signal bar
4) Channel master 4221 copy -The eight wiskers antenna was widened to five inches and then antenna spun around slowly to see if it would aligned split vhf lobes. I added some four 31 inch wires behind the wiskers to see if that wire would tap into the split vhf lobes. The 1x1 screen is only sold in bulk at $35 or more - so I rejected that option. -10% signal bar. I will keep eye out for small piece of screen to complete the vhf section.

The antennas (except rabbit ears) all had a similar response was very similar across:
Ch 8.1 - business channel - clear picture and audio is very low and choppy
Ch 8.2 - infomercial channel - clear picture and audio
Ch 8.3 - entertainment channel - picture will come in clear but little choppy with red and green squares popping on and off. No audio.
Ch 8.4 - spanish -clear picture and audio

I believe 8.2 and 8.4 look and sound better because it is being transmitted with more power just by picture/sound quality and ignoring the TV signal strength meter.

I think the only option now is to give the yagi a try. Maybe it can be mounted along the wall or hanging from ceiling aimed out window at transmitter.

Thank you for your help, knowledge and inspiration Arxaw, ProjectSHO89, Walford, Lemmalone and Kenglish. I learned a lot for all your comments about antenna design.

I got a 24" across 3/8 thick copper ring up against the glass window with duct tape. Channel 8.(1-4) came in at 20-21%. All the channels behaved same as in the last post.

The other VHF channels 7-13 are pulling in at 72% - which is good.

Question: Is this circular shape mean I am using a UHF to catch a VHF?

One of the posts mentioned that there may be a competing signal from San Diego on ch 8. I have a TV on the south side which does not pick up any signal from the south using Channel Master copy 4221 facing that direction. I believe that is what your saying. The poor signal on the south side forced me to run a 50ft cable to the north side. Deltaguy can you tell me what blind is or looks like? I did search but could not find. Thank you.

I see what you mean - that two signals at the same channel and cancel each other out. Creating some signal divider to focus in the direction of desired station. TV fool and Antenna web - is partially accurate for 90277. AntennaWeb under estimates and TVfool overestimates. The list of what I get now is below. Red is weakest signals. Bold is what I watch regularly.

2.1 - KCBS (CBS)
4.1 - KNBC (NBC)
4.2 - WX+ Weather, sometimes news
4.4 - Universal Sports (nothing but skiing)
5.1 - KTLA (CW)
5.2 - ThisTV (classic TV and movies)
7.1 - KABC HD (ABC)
7.2 - KABC SD alternative programming
7.3 - KABC Accuweather
8.1 KFLA BIZ Television -has 24/7 music station on sub audio - SAP
8.2 CornerStore TV
8.3 America One TV
8.4 TV Centro Commercial
9.1 - KCAL
11.1 - Fox11
11.2 Fox
11.3 Fox
13.1 - KCOP
18.1 - KSCI
18.2 - UTB (Japanese) NHK Japan World in English
18.3 - MGC-D (Korean)
18.5 - USArmenia
18.6 - (says Testing)
18.7 - VZA (Vietnamese)
18.8 - Taiwan (Chinese)
20.1 KNLA
20.2 KNET
20.3 KHTV
20.4 Corners
22.1 - KWHY HD (Spanish)
23.4 AVX Vietnamese
24.1 KVCR San Bernardino/Riverside
24.2 KVCR San Bernardino/Riverside
24.3 KVCR San Bernardino/Riverside
28.1 - KCET HD (PBS)
28.2 - KCET OC
28.3 - KCET V-Me (Spanish)
28.4 - PBS World
30.1 - KPXN (ION)
30.2 - qubo (kids)
30.3 - ION Life
30.4 - Worship
31.1 KVMD
31.2 IMPACTO
31.3 Italian Broadcasting Network RAI
31.4 KJLA
31.5 Skylink
31.6 VYV TV
31.7 TBW TV
31.8 WCE TV
34.1 - KMEX (Spanish)
40.1 - TBN
40.2 - The Church Channel
40.3 - JCTV
40.4 - Enlace (Spanish)
40.5 - Smile of a Child (Children)
44.1 - KXLA some Japanese
44.2 - V TV
44.3 - Sk DTV (Korean)
44.4 - LSTV (Vietnamese)
44.5 - Arirang (Korean stuff mostly in English)
44.6 - IAVC (Chinese)
44.7 - NTD TV
44.8 - ICN
44.9 IMPACTO
46.1 - KFTR (Spanish)
46.2 - KFTR
50.1 - KOCE HD (PBS)
50.2 - KOCE OC
50.3 - KOCE Create
50.4 - KOCE SD alt programming[/b]
52.1 - KVEA HD (Spanish)
52.2 - KVEA SD (same programming)
54.1 - KAZA (Spanish)
54.2 - KAZA
56.1 - KDOC HD
56.2 - ESNE
57.1 - KJLA
57.2 - LATV
57.3 - KBC TV Chinese programming
57.4 - SET Saigon Entertainment TV
57.5 - SGTV Saigon TV (Vietnamese)
57.6 - VBS TV
57.7 - VYV DT
57.8 - KVMD
57.9 ZWTV
58.1 - KLCS HD (PBS)
58.2 - KLCS kids programming
58.3 - KLCS PBS Create
58.4 - KLCS SD alt programming
62.1 - KRCA (Spanish)
62.2 - HTTV US
63.1 KBEH
63.2 KBEH
63.3 KBEH
63.4 KBEH

That design is very solid and straight forward. My wife has a friend that has trouble with her VHF signal only. She had her husband hold the antenna during the academy awards. She is between buildings, a few apartments in. She gets UHF maybe by reflection at 60-70%. Next time I visit - we will try this VHF tuned circle.

I decided to make a larger version of the Channel master 4221 copy with 8 gauge copper versus old 12. 9.5"spacing and 10 inch bow/wisker. I was hoping for a overall increase across the channels - especially 8 and 24 KVCR.

In general it did increase the strength little bit overall. ch 8 - .1 to .5 came in like usually did except 8.5 played oldies music. I dont know if that is because of this antenna or they just started to broadcast it today.

6 foot boom and 1/4" copper tubing tuned for ch 8.3 on yagi software www.k7mem.*********. Results rapid oscillation between 60-80% !!! for 8.1 to 8.5 After the joy of hearing and seeing it work for the first time, the show that was on was Deutsche Welle news (Europe news) - very cool stuff. For now, I had to hide it behind some furniture and hook up older antenna. It is way to big to mount anywhere. Hanging it on the wall with aim at window gave 0% signal. Mounting from ceiling and having it hang would might be ok (the higher the better. I believe the popcorn stucco ceiling might have abestos sealed in by years of paint - too afraid to mess with that.

The suggestion to make it smaller in this post might be the next logical step. My question is how short of boom can I go? Currently the 6 foot boom = 9.58 gain .

Would this be too small? : A 24.0 Inch Boom should have an Estimated Gain of 5.853 dBd which I could easily mount from the top of the window.

I attached some pic of yagi but camera is getting old and adding some lines.


Thank you all for helping understand this problem - supplying good plans and hardware recomendations!

The ch8 station must have increased the signal output. Therefore the original suggestion at the beginning of the thread - rabbit ears pressing against window in the center - is doing the trick. The length is about 20 inch 1/4 copper tubing each side connected to block of wood, which finally goes to balun. It is positioned in the sweet spot of window for the signal. An A/B switch connects to homemade CM4221 which is aimed north east to get San Bernadino - which gets ch 24 and 26KVCR - (PBS and great old movies). The rabbit ears do a great job with all the Mount Wilson Signals. I just got another station with this attenna after a rescan ch41 - PBS. It keeps getting better with time. Attached is all the info for anyone to replicate. I trying to work out a way to eliminate A/B switch for convenience on another thread.

Thank you to Arxaw, ProjectSHO89, lemmalone, walford, Falcon_77, kenglish, deltaguy and Jedi Master for the ideas and insight. I much smarter about the antennas after reading your replies.