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Playstation Move - PS3's motion controllers - Page 2

post #31 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post

Nopes..the new Socom will have SP campaign as well.

Oh, the trailer I saw few days ago suddenly makes sense hehehe... But since S4 will include Move support I don't see a reason why it would be kept from MP portion of the game. Doesn't make sense.
post #32 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post

Probably good for Sony's motion control, but probably bad for most players that have been playing the SOCOM series for a while, which is probably bad for the game. I know if it gave those players an advantage it could turn me away from buying the game. Still lots of time and information to come yet though, so we'll see how it all plays out.

If it gives more accurate, precise shooting controls, I don't see how any FPS fan would be turned off by that. It eliminates the biggest problem with pad control FPS.
post #33 of 1141
Thread Starter 
^^^ Yep, which is why this is the first online console FPS I have any interest in. I need precision in my controls, and the Move is a huge step in that direction.

BTW, I read somewhere that with SOCOM 4 a major focus of development is to have both DS3 and Move players play together fairly. That worries me. I don't want them to artificially gimp the motion controls if it is revealed to have a major advantage. The smart thing (IMHO) is to let players filter servers. They can go to pad only, wand only, or to servers that allow both.
post #34 of 1141
after watching that video, i'm still not convinced, due to previous experiences with fps and motion controls but I hope it works out. On N4g I see that PS3 is already planning on getting Wii ports... hopefully the ps2 graphics dont transfer
post #35 of 1141
Seriously -- "You've spent $100 for the best new motion controller available! Now play SOCOM4 and feel the money slipping through your fingers as you realize the game pad controls just as well!"

Ugh, no thanks. I understand they might not want to fragment their userbase (which filtering inevitably does) but gimping the controls would be the dumbest thing they could do. Hopefully they realize that.
post #36 of 1141
FPS with Move...they'll probably be pretty awesome but I'm more interested in the fighting, sports and adventure games they could come up with.

Imagine something like Soul Calibur with the Move controls...I just pissed myself a little! Or what was said earlier...tennis, archery, etc should all be better than the Wii versions of those games b/c of the 1 to 1 precision.

And b/c it's Playstation, you know some developer will come up with a hardcore gamer's game that incorporates innovative controls and game design in a dope 3rd person action/adventure setting, complete with top notch graphics and storytelling.
post #37 of 1141
Fight Night round 5 will be a great workout and fun with that motion controller and body movement.

I can see some good applications for 2 Move controllers. One as flashlight other as weapon, in a FEAR type game or integration in Siren: Blood Curse to make it even more scary.
post #38 of 1141
This looks really promising. I watched the entire presentation and I'm blown away!

I have the Eye Toy for the PS2, and a few games (Play 2, etc.). I find those games extremely frustrating. No matter how hard we try to get Play 2 to "play", we end up getting tired of trying and shut it off.

I also have the PS3 Eye, and so far the PS3 games have generally sucked. They suffer the same inaccuracies as the PS2 Eye Toy, and simply won't work without really bright lighting.

As stated before, my guess is that's the whole point for the glowing orbs. I believe this is going to be a real winner, and I can't wait to get my hands on it. Even though the rest of the family wants a Wii, I've kept one out of the house. Looks like the solution is on the horizon!
post #39 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

^^^ Yep, which is why this is the first online console FPS I have any interest in. I need precision in my controls, and the Move is a huge step in that direction.

BTW, I read somewhere that with SOCOM 4 a major focus of development is to have both DS3 and Move players play together fairly. That worries me. I don't want them to artificially gimp the motion controls if it is revealed to have a major advantage. The smart thing (IMHO) is to let players filter servers. They can go to pad only, wand only, or to servers that allow both.

I have never had a problem with using a controller in a TPS or a FPS, I actually prefer using controllers, it's one of the reasons I barely ever game on a PC. I'm more worried about it going the other way, adding auto aim to the series to help out the people using the motion controls, which is an obvious advantage and would change the game a lot. I'm not going to worry too much about it yet though, not enough information yet.

I do look forward to some of the more casual games that take advantage of motion controls though, or even possibly games that were designed with nothing but the motion controls in mind, but hopefully not tacked on to what was the best shooter series on PS2 and change how it plays.
post #40 of 1141
SOCOM with these controllers? Hmmmm... I'll hold off judgment but that could possibly turn me away from this game. A game I am most excited for...
post #41 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post

I have never had a problem with using a controller in a TPS or a FPS, I actually prefer using controllers, it's one of the reasons I barely ever game on a PC. I'm more worried about it going the other way, adding auto aim to the series to help out the people using the motion controls, which is an obvious advantage and would change the game a lot. I'm not going to worry too much about it yet though, not enough information yet.

Pointer controls are MORE precise (and faster) than a thumbstick, so you'll need less auto aim, not more.
post #42 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Pointer controls are MORE precise (and faster) than a thumbstick, so you'll need less auto aim, not more.

Hopefully they are, SOCOM has never had auto aim, don't want to add it now.
post #43 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinn3sS View Post

SOCOM with these controllers? Hmmmm... I'll hold off judgment but that could possibly turn me away from this game. A game I am most excited for...

Move is optional. You can use the pad.
post #44 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mitty View Post

If you ever play with friends, won't you need 2 of them anyway?

But that means I might need four of them, two for each player.
post #45 of 1141
Hopefully some of the games mentioned, and those not, are cool and fun cuz that's what it's all about. It does seem to be very similar to Wii, only in HD and with more accurate controls. I mean even watching the trailer for it I thought I was watching a Wii commercial to the T.
post #46 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

But that means I might need four of them, two for each player.

Yes, the laws of mathematics do apply in this case.

I've already got the Playstation Eye, so I will probably pick up two...um...Moves...to start off. Perhaps one of the sub controllers, too, depending on what games I've heard about at the time.
post #47 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post

Hopefully some of the games mentioned, and those not, are cool and fun cuz that's what it's all about. It does seem to be very similar to Wii, only in HD and with more accurate controls. I mean even watching the trailer for it I thought I was watching a Wii commercial to the T.

Except for the fuzzy graphics and legless avatars. If it gets the mini games right, I'll sell my Wii, no one plays it in my house after the few few weeks.
post #48 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Yes, the laws of mathematics do apply in this case.

I was replying to $mitty's comment that you would already have a second controller for playing with a friend. My point is that now you need two per person; owning two controllers won't let you play with a friend anymore.

And if each wand costs about the same as a DualShock 3, which seems likely, you're talking about spending $200 so you can play with a friend. I'm not all that interested in Microsoft's Natal, but it can support multiple players with a single device, which some have predicted will cost as little as $50. That's a big difference if you're trying to attract casual users.
post #49 of 1141
post #50 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

And if each wand costs about the same as a DualShock 3, which seems likely, you're talking about spending $200 so you can play with a friend. I'm not all that interested in Microsoft's Natal, but it can support multiple players with a single device, which some have predicted will cost as little as $50. That's a big difference if you're trying to attract casual users.


Well, casuals will also ignore Natal's frequently mentioned, significant lag and its lack of 1:1 controls (which you conveniently left of your talking point list), but what can you do?

Back on topic, here's the latest interview with a Sony exec who hints Heavy Rain might get a Move patch:

Quote:


Following the unveiling of Sony's Move motion controller and sub-controller, we sat down with president of worldwide studios Shu Yoshida to discuss the device. He was kind enough to answer our questions comparing it to the Wii remote and even humored rumors about a version of Heavy Rain that may yet utilize Move. All of that and more below.

IGN: You announced Move. First of all, how is this different and better than the already-released Wii remote and nunchuk?

Shu Yoshida: There are many different things that the PlayStation Move is better at. One big difference is how precise it is to track very subtle movement. At the same time, the camera tracks where in a 3D space the controller is and also its angle. It feels like the whole living room is a game space and whatever you do -- move, rotate, anything -- can be used in the game input. So that's the biggest difference.

IGN: What about in terms of delay or lag -- how does it fare against the Wii remote there?


Shu Yoshida: Yeah, so that's one of the biggest things we focused on working on when we started this project. To keep it the same as the DualShock 3 -- that was our target -- and we are very happy that we achieved this. That means that everything you do can be transmitted to PS3 every frame.

IGN: I keep hearing that Natal, in contrast, is much more laggy. So this is a major advantage for Move with regard to responsiveness.

Shu Yoshida: Well, if that's the case, I'd say that's a big advantage because at the end of the day interactivity is a core part of videogame making. Because our teams and studios are very heavily involved in the development of PlayStation Move, there was a long list of things that we demanded the hardware and software guys [implemented.]

IGN: So have you done tests to see how Move compares to the Wii remote in terms of lag and response time? Does Move perform favorably in these tests?

Shu Yoshida: That probably should best be answered by the third-party developers. If they work on the same game on both Nintendo Wii and PS3, they are in a better position to answer that because our developers tend to be exclusively working on PS3. So we haven't actually done the side-by-side comparison using the same game.

IGN: One of the Wii remotes big problems is light interfering with the infrared pointer. Also, it can become de-calibrated often. How does Move perform against these issues?

Shu Yoshida: Yeah. You should try yourself. We noticed some big problems with Nintendo Wii MotionPlus. I don't want to talk about other company's systems. But PlayStation Move is really, really robust in terms of keeping calibrations.


IGN: So you've got what I perceive as an uphill battle because the Wii remote and nunchuk are out there and Nintendo has been very successful with them. Then you have Natal on the horizon, which seems to have its own identity. But Move looks and acts a lot like a Wii remote, and it's late to market. So how are you going to convince gamers that that they need your new motion controller?


Shu Yoshida: So, people have to try our games using PlayStation Move to feel the difference. I really ask anyone to try our games. Don't just watch. It doesn't tell what's really happening. The player is the only person who knows how well your moves are translated into the game. We as game developers are very, very good at cheating and making systems so that you think you are doing something [laughs], but good gamers know immediately the difference because they can improve their skills and that kind of depth we can create with PlayStation Move compared to other systems.

IGN: I heard today from a developer that Heavy Rain was once compatible with Move. Is that true and what happened?

Shu Yoshida: [Chuckles] Who said that?

IGN: I can't -- I'm not going to say. But I heard that.

Shu Yoshida: Well, one thing I can say is that you saw EyePet, SOCOM 4 and LittleBigPlanet working with PlayStation Move. Every team says that getting Move into already-developed software is very easy. It takes only a very tiny fraction of PS3 resources and its integration is very straightforward. So I'm sure I'll be surprised when more and more third-party developer or our own developers who haven't tried to incorporate Move see how easy it is to incorporate.

IGN: So coming back to that. Heavy Rain features a lot of gestures. Seems pretty perfect for Move.


Shu Yoshida: Absolutely. It seems natural, right? I agree. I cannot wait to see if that happens.

IGN: Could you release a download over PSN to enable that kind of functionality?

Shu Yoshida: Absolutely. Some of the games -- we are adding the functionality of Move to these games already. For example, EyePet was already released in Europe so in European countries we are considering something like PSN. Other games that we haven't announced yet, we'll do the same.

IGN: Great. So just to be sure, though -- Heavy Rain. Was it compatible with Move at some point?

Shu Yoshida: [Laughs] Well, until Move launches, we'll have more games we'll announce, so please look forward to an announcement from us.

[At this point, Sony PR reminds me that I've asked the same question three times and kindly suggests that I stop asking it. Shu continues, though.]

The point is, you feel that it's natural for the game to use Move. I feel the same.

IGN: All right. Sony franchises beyond LittleBigPlanet and SOCOM. Can we expect to see more Sony-owned licenses use Move going forward?

Shu Yoshida: Our already-existing IPs that might incorporate the motion controller? Yeah -- it's basically the idea that matters because integrating this technology is pretty straightforward. If you like, we can add this technology to any kind of games. What's most important is if developers come up with great ideas to use this motion. For example, shooters like SOCOM 4. Actually, we found it is a perfect match. If you're not a great shooter [player], because you just point and shoot it's much easier to get into. [Capcom] told me that when they incorporated the Nintendo Wii system to Resident Evil 4, they found that a much broader audience came to the franchise. That's why they announced Resident Evil 5 with the Move controller.

IGN: What's battery life looking like?

Shu Yoshida: I think we're looking at up to 10 hours with a full charge to play the games.

IGN: Does that hold true for the sub-controller, too?

Shu Yoshida: Sub-controller is much longer. 30 hours.

IGN: Sounds good. So this one is a bit critical. You're going to have gamers out there who say that you showed off your first titles -- ping-pong, archery, sword-fighting, boxing -- and that they aren't different from the games we've seen on Wii already. What do you say to critics who claim these games have been done before?

Shu Yoshida: There are many, many shooters out there. Do you criticize any company making, you know, Modern Warfare? Right? You know, a boxing game with a new control scheme -- if you feel much more into the game, the immersiveness, the game should exist. We're talking about advancing the genre with different types of games.

IGN: So in your view these games improve upon the stuff on Wii already.


Shu Yoshida: Absolutely. If we don't feel like that, we won't continue developing.

IGN: Great. So how big of a focus will Move be at E3 and will we see more franchises that use the technology?


Shu Yoshida: Yeah. At this event, we totally focused on PlayStation Move, as you can tell. But we have some other new announcements and we're targeting for E3.

IGN: On price point. You've got the PS3 Slim down to $299. But the starter kit for Move is $99 or under so you might be asking gamers to pay as much as $399 again to play motion-based titles. My question is, isn't that a lot to ask? Also, will the Move bundle with PS3 be cheaper -- say, $349 versus $399?

Shu Yoshida: Well, we haven't decided the price point for the bundle yet, but one target for the system development was to sell the camera, the controller and one game altogether for under $100. We believe we have achieved that and that's why we shared that information with you today.

IGN: Do you think that's going to be too much money for the casual gamer?

Shu Yoshida: You know, we are talking about different family members in one family. They may already have PS3 from the older brother. The younger sister might be interested in some of the more party-casual games. In that case, the additional investment is less than $100.

IGN: A lot of the software we saw is very mini-game-style in presentation. Can we expect this type of game to be cheaper on PS3 and can you deliver it over PSN? Is that your plan?

Shu Yoshida: Yeah -- it's a good question. Some of the games, including what we've been working on for PlayStation Move that we didn't show today, are fairly small in terms of size. In that case, we may choose to release them on PSN, like you said. Or you know, for Blu-ray games, we might price them less than the regularly priced games. It's going to be a title-by-title decision.

IGN: Great. Do you foresee Move propelling PS3 to the ultimate family console? Can you overtake Wii as the ultimate family console?

Shu Yoshida: Overtaking Wii's installed base is going to be very, very challenging, but we are focusing on how we want to advance PlayStation 3. We are very confident that Move will bring PlayStation 3 to a much wider audience and at the same time provide new experience for the core gamers. I think Move will play a key role to expand the audience on PlayStation 3.
post #51 of 1141
Thread Starter 
How many of you used to love that downhill racer ESPN Extreme Games on the PSOne? If you combine that with an office chair and Pain from the PSN, you would get something like Slider, coming out with the Move controller (gameplay video):





Quote:


I've played a few Move games, but the one I just played (above) is the best so far. It's called Slider, and it is the only Move game so far from SCEJ.

Slider is set in Hong Kong. A poor office boss and his lovely secretary are holed up in their office. The bills are overdue and the mafia is out to get them. Their only escape? Office equipment. You'll play as either the boss or the sexy, long-legged secretary, and you'll use an office chair to slide downhill, working to avoid enemies and obstacles. I asked Slider producer George Weising if anyone used the boss instead of the lovely bun-haired, busty girl. He said, "I do...sometimes."

"Most people don't, though."

I wouldn't either. The girl is hot.

This uses one PlayStation Move controller. It's tilted to steer downhill. Buttons let you perform tricks. You can grind on rails and do fancy turns. The whole goal is to get to the bottom of the hill, working to get to your busted up old van to make your escape. What we dig is the secretary's *** sticking out during her chair ride. What we also dig is that this is like a sexy Crazy Taxi throwback. I'm quite serious when I say that this is my favorite Move game so far.

When you watch the video, look at her face in the upper left corner. Hilarious.

We were told that Slider will ship at Move's launch.
post #52 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverFan View Post

http://gizmodo.com/5491464/playstati...player-support

FAIL

The article is more fail than anything.
post #53 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

If it gives more accurate, precise shooting controls, I don't see how any FPS fan would be turned off by that. It eliminates the biggest problem with pad control FPS.

True. But another big problem with using the Wii controller for shooters (whether on rails or free movement FPS) is controller fatigue. Holding that thing out in front of you and moving it around for a few hours wears on your elbow and shoulder in a bad way. It's not something that I ever "got used to" on the Wii even after playing through Metroid Prime 3, Dead Space Extraction, Umbrella Chronicles, etc.

Yes, it sucks that the Wii controller is imprecise, but it also sucks that it's tiring. When I'm playing an FPS, the last thing I want to worry about is joint pain. If Sony can prove that the new controller is sensitive enough and precise enough to sense small movements from a comfortable position, then I'll be happy with it. If they can't manage that, it will never become a standard for FPS games.
post #54 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Sony's programmer session today for the Move at GDC revealed answers to quite a few questions we're asking about and more. Apparently, it can detect X/Y movement to the millimeter (extra precise), that Move testers in SOCOM 4 have been beating up the pad users (awesome), and that the PSEye can be programmed for facial tracking and detection of expressions.

A long summary is here, but I'll post snippets below:

Quote:


Who was there: Sony Computer Entertainment of America platform research manager David Coombes, developer support specialist Kirk Bender, and R&D researcher Anton Mikhailov delivered an hour-long programming track session meant to introduce developers to the Move motion controller.
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In addition to helping with tracking, Coombes said the ball color could be changed to identify player 1 from player 2, 3, or 4, as well as provide gameplay feedback. For instance, when taking damage in a first-person shooter, the ball might flash red.
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Mikhailov took over, explaining how Sony is always on the lookout for new interfaces like the PlayStation Eye, the Buzz controller, or the SingStar microphone. The reason behind all of those interfaces was to deliver new experiences to the end user. He said they wind up doing well in their own markets, even if hardcore gamers don't really show interest in them. For example, he said Sony had sold over 10 million cameras, even if hardcore gamers might not even know the peripheral exists.
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Accuracy is crucial for hardcore players because they want their commands conveyed instantly to the game. If the system is misinterpreting the player intent because of a bad interface, traditional gamers will get upset. The same issue is in play with immediacy; if there's too much input lag or latency, hardcore gamers will get frustrated.
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Delving into a bit of tech talk, the designer said the camera has a field of about 75 degrees, with XY tracking down to millimeters and Z-axis tracking to a few centimeters.
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A "Puppet" demo he showed off combined the motion controllers with the PS Eye body-and-head tracking, where the demoer's actions appeared to match up one-for-one with a third-person dungeon exploration game onscreen. He pointed out that the buttons on the Move controller allowed for exceptional precision with actions, saying a strictly camera-based system like Natal would have difficulty with accurate tracking on fine movements.
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He said with a little hacking, he was able to hook the controllers up to a PC and legitimately play Starcraft. Some PS3 developers have also used the Move controllers to help them model in Maya as opposed to using a mouse.
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Bender then took over to talk about more technical tools for developers to use. He said developers would be able to take advantage of face detection technology that can recognize and remember multiple users, as well as determine a user's age (roughly), gender, whether or not they're smiling, if their eyes are open or closed, and so on. He also said developers can use head tracking to determine the body position of the player even when their face is hidden or their back is turned to the camera.
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Bender said the technology could be used to base in-game characters on a player's head and face, as well as change the view based on the way a player is leaning in the camera. He suggested a quiz game where players could answer by nodding yes or shaking their heads no, or perhaps a shooter where players smile to equip the BSG, "big smile gun."
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When asked about the competitive balance issues raised by games that use either the Move controller or the DualShock, Mikhailov brought up SOCOM 4, saying that different people excel with each method. Recently, he said some of the testers using motion controllers were able to crush their DualShock-using counterparts.
post #55 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

True. But another big problem with using the Wii controller for shooters (whether on rails or free movement FPS) is controller fatigue. Holding that thing out in front of you and moving it around for a few hours wears on your elbow and shoulder in a bad way. It's not something that I ever "got used to" on the Wii even after playing through Metroid Prime 3, Dead Space Extraction, Umbrella Chronicles, etc.

I played through MP3 and Umbrella Chronicles and had my arm on the chair's armrest and aimed with my wrist. Didn't seem to be a problem, I never hold it out in front of me, that'd make it less accurate anyway.
post #56 of 1141
I've heard that the primary wand does have rumble, but that is a very weak rumble. Supposedly much weaker than the wii-mote. Kinda disappointing if you ask me.

I don't think it's been confirmed or not as to whether the sub-controller has rumble or not. I'm guessing it doesn't, looking at the size of the thing.

My other major concern is whether or not the Move will work in a very dark room. In my projector room, I have total light control other than the light coming out of the projector.
post #57 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Yes, it sucks that the Wii controller is imprecise, but it also sucks that it's tiring. When I'm playing an FPS, the last thing I want to worry about is joint pain. If Sony can prove that the new controller is sensitive enough and precise enough to sense small movements from a comfortable position, then I'll be happy with it. If they can't manage that, it will never become a standard for FPS games.

When they showed the onstage Socom demo of it, the Zipper guy didn't have to move very much or flail his arm around like a madman. It looked like he made very small movements (probably millimeter tracking) for his aiming. He sat somewhat relaxed, but more in a focused gaming position.
post #58 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martez View Post

I played through MP3 and Umbrella Chronicles and had my arm on the chair's armrest and aimed with my wrist. Didn't seem to be a problem, I never hold it out in front of me, that'd make it less accurate anyway.

Must be the position/distance of my remote sensor. Almost impossible to get it to work right if I just rest it on a chair/sofa arm or on my leg. Might be just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjachicken View Post

When they showed the onstage Socom demo of it, the Zipper guy didn't have to move very much or flail his arm around like a madman. It looked like he made very small movements (probably millimeter tracking) for his aiming. He sat somewhat relaxed, but more in a focused gaming position.

Just watched it. You're right. That's exactly what I haven't been able to do with Wii games. I'm hoping that the different technology will make that easier to do than it is on the Wii. Looks very promising. But the catch is going to be what configuration options you're expected to use.

The ones that Wii shooters use are pretty rigid. You have to sit in the exact same spot every time in order for the configuration to work consistently, and even then, it's pretty uncooperative. I'm wondering how this will work with Move. Since you're not actually "pointing" at anything (like with the Wii), it may not actually need much/any configuring. Hopefully just a simple sensitivity setting like with a mouse.
post #59 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

True. But another big problem with using the Wii controller for shooters (whether on rails or free movement FPS) is controller fatigue. Holding that thing out in front of you and moving it around for a few hours wears on your elbow and shoulder in a bad way. It's not something that I ever "got used to" on the Wii even after playing through Metroid Prime 3, Dead Space Extraction, Umbrella Chronicles, etc.

I suggest hitting this bad boy everyday until release time to get you ready for Socom
post #60 of 1141
I know, right? I may as well be complaining about having to turn a door handle.
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