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TiVo HD or Tivo Premiere vs Ceton HTPC - Page 5

post #121 of 131
Well they can be used for more than live or recorded TV - as gsr mentioned there are plugins available (DVRMSToolbox and the shark007 codec pack, mainly) that allow you to transcode pretty much everything to a supported format. But it's still a mixed bag watching these shows on an extender - some work well, some don't.

As I've said in other threads, your Sage solution is an expensive and power-sucking kludge with all the HD-PVRs and sat STBs. But you don't have DRM, and for some that's more important than anything else. I don't care, Comcast only protects the premiums here and I'm not a video hoarder anyway.
post #122 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

As I've said in other threads, your Sage solution is an expensive and power-sucking kludge with all the HD-PVRs and sat STBs. But you don't have DRM, and for some that's more important than anything else.

I'm not tied to a crappy provider either, and I have extenders that aren't a "mixed bag".

IMO the HD PVR is much less of a kludge than what you have to do with WMC extenders to use them for anything beyond wmv files (ie DVDs or BDs).
post #123 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

You miss my point, which is that your implied argument that Tivo's support is worse.

Doesn't do you any good if your problem lies somewhere else (as it usually will on a PC).

I don't either, but you brought up the issue of Tivo's support. Which while maybe not good, exits, it isn't you. That's my only point.

Don't have FIOS here, and my Cable choice is the worst provider in the nation. I'd probably lose half to three quarters of the HD networks I've got now with Dish, it would cost more, and my use would be more limited.

No I signed up for Dish when I could get 70+ channels in HD vs like 7 on Mediacon.

If all you want to do is watch TV, they're fine, but then what's the point of using a PC backend. If MS hadn't (intentionally) crippled them it would be a different story.

Rather than go through a line-by-line rebuttal, let me summarize:

I didn't bring up the subject of tech support initially. I just responded to your original comments. Ceton has shown to provide better support than Tivo by a huge margin. Anyone building an HTPC should already have enough of a knowledge base so that they don't require tech support except in the most extreme cases. In other words, if you can't deal with PC problems yourself, then you should probably find another way to enjoy your media. Support from Tivo is about the same as dealing with it yourself, which is to say, they totally suck when it comes to supporting their products.

I pity anyone that is not technical enough to fix their own Tivos because they won't get much sympathy or help from Tivo without having to shell out more money. Tivo will be glad to provide you with a refurbished Tivo to replace your broken one, as long as you're willing to pay for it. Most Tivo problems are drive related and can usually be repaired by the end user by simply installing a fresh image on a replacement drive. I had the foresight to have learned this process many years ago such that I have never had to deal directly with Tivo or DirecTV tech support.

I followed the early exploits of the Tivo hacking pioneers when Tivo discussions were still a part of these forums (i.e., before they split off and became the Tivo Community Forum). I hacked my very first Tivo using Dylan's boot disc, which was the early precursor to MFSTools. I also used to be a moderator for a Tivo hacking forum back in the day, so I'm no stranger to a Tivo's capabilities, both as a stock device and one modified to do things above and beyond a normal Tivo. That being said, having such an vested interest in Tivos, I do not take the comparison lightly between a Tivo and an MC-based PC. Sorry if I'm tooting my own horn, but I felt it was relevant that you know how vested I am in the use of Tivos. I loved them in their day, but that day is long past. An HTPC is the next logical step in the evolution of home media, IMHO.

The question of support for either a Media Center PC with the Ceton card or a Tivo isn't the issue here. If you decide to travel down the HTPC path then you should already know what you're in for. A Tivo setup will be more likely attractive to the novice user whereas an HTPC will appeal to someone more advanced technically.
post #124 of 131
I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner and have spent 5 hours with Comcast and Tivo support and 2 m-cards, and it still doesn't acquire channels. I'm at the end of my patience and not happy with my Tivo experience so far.

Sorry for the rant but if Ceton was available I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
post #125 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Rather than go through a line-by-line rebuttal

I just like to keep my comments in context.

Quote:
I didn't bring up the subject of tech support initially.

If you go back and look, you'll see my comment about support was in response to your post about Tivo support.

Quote:
An HTPC is the next logical step in the evolution of home media, IMHO.

I would agree if CableCard wasn't limited to WMC, and/or if WMC weren't such a fragmented, incomplete whole-house solution. With WMC you have to choose between whole house DVR (using extenders) or whole house media (using HTPCs).

Unfortunately MS doesn't have the will/vision to make WMC what it could be, and it could be a lot. Instead they impose silly limitations that nobody else does.
post #126 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Unfortunately MS doesn't have the will/vision to make WMC what it could be, and it could be a lot. Instead they impose silly limitations that nobody else does.

To be fair, it's not like Tivo comes with no restrictions. For example, as I pointed out in a previous post Tivo doesn't have a multi room solution that works for watching copy protected recordings on any TV in the house while WMC does. Another example (also previously pointed out): Tivo also doesn't have an option that pools all tuners across all Tivo's within the house while WMC can have a LOT of tuners in the one box. Each user needs to evaluate the options and pick the one that best fits their needs - no available solution is perfect for all people.
post #127 of 131
Here's something to consider:

If the Tivo hardware goes bad, you lose all of your recordings since the hard drive cannot be transferred to another Tivo without performing a Clear & Delete Everything. There are situations where this can be avoided, but it requires that the Tivo be hacked with a PROM mod and scrambling be disabled prior to making the recordings. The replacement Tivo would also have to be hacked in order to run the 51killer.tcl script to eliminate the fault message and retain access to the recordings.

If a component in a PC goes bad, you can simply replace it with another and not lose any recordings.
post #128 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I loved them in their day, but that day is long past. An HTPC is the next logical step in the evolution of home media, IMHO.

For you.
post #129 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner and have spent 5 hours with Comcast and Tivo support and 2 m-cards, and it still doesn't acquire channels. I'm at the end of my patience and not happy with my Tivo experience so far.

Sorry for the rant but if Ceton was available I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

And for the last Tivo I bought the Comcast guy was in and out in 15 mins. with all channels working.

As with everything Cablecard, YMMV. The fault is almost 100% due to the provider, regardless of what solution you pick.
post #130 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

If the Tivo hardware goes bad, you lose all of your recordings since the hard drive cannot be transferred to another Tivo without performing a Clear & Delete Everything.

Which happens in what, maybe 1% of Tivo failures? It's almost always either the drive or the power supply going bad, both of which are easy fixes. If you care about your recordings that much (I don't), use kmttg to auto-transfer them to a PC for backup. Yes, this is assuming you're on a system without a lot of DRM.
post #131 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

For you.

And apparently for many of us here as well. After all, this is a home theater PC forum, not a Tivo forum. If you're looking for pro-Tivo support, I recommend going to the Tivo Community Forum where they'll all gladly cheer you on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Which happens in what, maybe 1% of Tivo failures? It's almost always either the drive or the power supply going bad, both of which are easy fixes. If you care about your recordings that much (I don't), use kmttg to auto-transfer them to a PC for backup. Yes, this is assuming you're on a system without a lot of DRM.

If I record something, I would like the opportunity to watch it at some point. OTOH, I've learned not to cry about it if they get trashed. Transferring the shows to your PC for backup is a bit redundant. With an HTPC you can have them recorded directly to a server with built-in backup (i.e., a parity drive). DRM isn't really an issue with a Media Center PC and extenders, but apparently it can be an issue with Tivos and MRV. Unless you're with FIOS, which I am, many providers are flagging their content so it can't be shared.

I only mentioned the recording issue because I see so many people that like to keep hundreds of hours of recorded shows on their Tivo, only to lose all of them due to a hardware or drive failure. If I've got something I want to keep long-term, I'll pull it off my Tivo or HTPC and store it on my unRAID server until I watch it. I rarely keep more than 30-40 hours or programs on either my Tivo or HTPC drive. I've seen too many bad things happen to trust either setup.
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