Official Samsung LNXXC630/C650 Owners Thread - Page 27

I'm not sure which TiVo model you have but first make sure that your box is still outputting a 1080p/i signal. Press Info on your remote to see what the resolution currently is.

How is your Tivo hooked up to your TV? Through a receiver? Directly?

Thanks, gents. I did check the TiVo box. I have the cable coming directly into the box and HDMI from box to TV. The box is outputting in "Native" and both 1080 boxes are checked as to which my TV can broadcast. Is the "Native" setting correct? Perhaps I just need to reboot my TV and check connections? Hopefully that's all it is!

Native should be OK.

When you press the INFO button on the remote (the TV's remote) while you're on an HD channel what does the screen read? You can also try hitting the Format button on the front of the Tivo box to see if that does anything.

Besides that, and making sure your Tivo is hooked up to your TV using HDMI only, I don't know what to tell you. I doesn't sound like a problem with the TV.. I agree, try unplugging and resetting everything and see if that helps.

how do u guys with the c630 like their set? im thinkin of gettin a 40 inch c630. and what is a good price on a 40 inch c630?

To restore the tv to factory settings, and to make sure it's not in 'store' mode, hold down the 'exit' button for about 10 seconds until you get a message to reset settings. It will guide you through the steps.

I found a couple of discussions on this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1090362

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_Video

I think by setting the TV to Low, it will only expect 16-235 values. However in video the lowest blacks is 16, unless maybe in some calibration menu they would output Blacker than Black (BTB) (0-15) values. I wonder in this case if the TV is mapping the value 16 to the darkest it can display. In your case I don't know if your player is mapping 16-235 into 0-255 when you choose RGB full (the AVS link above seems to suggest that PS3 does that). In that case some of your blackest levels in the video will be mapped to 0-15 in your player's output, and since the TV is only expecting 16-235, I wonder if that would cause those levels to be "crushed".

In the other combination, where player is outputing Auto (16-235) and the TV is accepting Normal (0-255), the TV would be reserving some of the blacker levels for signals in the 0-15 range, and since the videos don't use those black levels, then TV will not display the black (level 16) in the video using the darkest black that it has, say it in another way, the blackest black in the video will be displayed at some greyish level on the TV, and not the blackest level that the TV can provide. I think this is what your original issue was.

I would hypothesis that if you keep your TV at Low, and use Auto on your player, you may still get the blackest black, and may avoid the crush and see more shades in your black.

However, if you play games, they would use those black levels. If you set your TV to Low and not show BTB, then that would crush your blacks when you're playing a game.

Yeah, I've read a few articles on this and have been going back and forth on what to do. I do want the purest picture but the RGB setting looks so much better and it's not crushing blacks as far as I can tell.

The problem is that the HDMI black level option on the TV is grayed out unless RGB is selected through the player. I can get the auto (Ycb 16-235) to look similar by lowering the brightness and messing with dynamic contrast but I'd just rather leave that off if possible.

can anyone tell me the difference between the c630 matte screen vs the b650 glossy screen? is there any difference n PQ ?

also , any new info if these tv's will be able to connect to netflix ?

thanks

The review mentioned the reflective screen, I thought the C630 is matte except for the 55"? I am very concerned. I just ordered a 46" C630 to replace my G20 due to the glass screen and the windows in my living room.

Thanks, actually since yours is just a player and not a game console like PS3, maybe it's RGB is like the RGB limited for PS3 (starting at 16, and not 0), in this case it would match perfectly with the Low profile of the TV. Thanks for the info, I'm getting a C650 next week, this discussion just gave me a lot of good hints on how I'll need to configure my system.

My guess is your TV is an S panel. I say this because PQ on my 40C630 SQ02 is bad too with HDMI set to normal. Unfortunately, I think all setting HDMI to low does is mask the underlying problem, which is that this particular type of S panel is incapable of resolving the full 1080 lines of resolution. These panels have the old S-PVA pixel structure (at partial brightness the RGB subpixels look like brackets >>> rather than rectangles) which I think reduces image sharpness.

I could easily see my C630 had a resolution problem from the outset, but I set it up next to my 46B500 - which has an AMVA3 panel - in order to confirm that. The difference in image quality was shocking, and was especially noticeable with rescaled sources. DVDs in particular look very grainy and soft on the C630.

The 40C630 I had previously - which I returned due to a bad inverter and other issues - had the AMVA3 panel and PQ on it was much better. To be honest, off angle viewing wasn't that great and blacks might've been *slightly* worse, but those are probably the tradeoffs for better image quality from the center. Of course maybe some people would prefer a wider viewing angle, but in my opinion, the picture on the S panel version is so bad, it isn't worth it.

I wonder if they tested the A or S panel version. I left a comment at the site asking that very question, and will report back if they answer.

In my opinion, the S panel version has serious resolution problems and is just not a very good TV.

Pure misinformation you give below. Perhaps your S panel was bad but a general statement that should not be made from it.


Originally Posted by Mike999
[/quote]In my opinion, the S panel version has serious resolution problems and is just not a very good TV.[/quote]

I've purchased a few LCDs in my time and this set is definitely comparable.. there's nothing really shocking that I noticed about the image quality or lack thereof. I have a 55B8000 as my main set upstairs and there really isn't a drastic difference besides an obviously improved black level.

I was able to get a very good picture using the AUTO setting on the player after dropping the backlight down to 5-6. That compensates nicely for the washed out picture I was getting.

This set really has an incredible picture.. just wish the off angle viewing was a bit better

Edit: Its a SQ01 panel

so, got the third tv today after exchanging the other 2. i thought it was fine today when i looked at it..i took another look after it got dark, 2 dead/stuck pixels...*sigh* im so beyond p*ssed with this crap. this is rediculous..my gf doesnt want me returning it because shes scared she might lose her job if we keep returning tv's...i dont know what to do..im going to either call samsung and probably be very rude..she wants to get geek squad but i dont see the point in getting geek squad on a jacked up tv. this is so retarded..the 3 tv's iv gotten are all made in mexico. where were yours made? and what should i do?..this is the 3rd tv iv gotten from best buy..the first one had 1 stuck pixel the second had 7 and now this one has 2. one is white and the other is very dark, sortof blue. this is the c670 btw.


upate: just talked to a live agent in samsung live help chat..explained my problem to her and she said they could send out a repair tech..i dont want to return anymore tv's to best buy because my gf is paranoid they're going to get tired of her returning them...but they got their money out of it..w/e..i didnt want to have to get work done on a brand new out of the box tv but i guess it is my only choice..you cant notice it unless you're way up on it on a black screen..not that big of a deal but it shouldnt be there at all...*sigh* im trying to decide if i want to get the black tie protection on it or just return the bluray player i purchased and use the money from my old westinghouse i sold to buy a ps3..lol..god hates me

The 46 C630 is semi matte. A bit reflective but not as much as the Ultra Clear Panel on the 650s and 55" 630.

You're right, the top segment of a subpixel doesn't quite connect with the bottom one, which from a distance makes the *bracket* shape look slightly less angular than >>>, a little more more like )))....



On AMVA3 panels, as well as the S-PVA panels used on higher end models, the subpixels are always rectangular, but divide up into smaller block shapes depending on the brightness.....



I would think this structure produces a sharper image than the S-PVA type under discussion, as it's based on rectangles and allows for half height subpixels, effectively doubling the vertical resolution. While you sometimes see this sort of structure on lower end models, you never see the horizontal bracket structure on higher end models, at least not anymore.


I notice it on all sources. For example, using the same type of Blu-Ray player, 1080p output, and Screen Fit for both TVs, my 46B500 produces a noticeably sharper image for every DVD and Blu-Ray I try. Calibration doesn't help at all, and actually the only way I can get the S panel to even approach the same sharpness is to move back to 12 feet or more. (My normal viewing distance from the 40" model is 6-7 feet.) I even swapped out the players to check for differences in the upconversion, and didn't find anything there. After a while, it became evident to me this C630 S panel simply can't achieve the same resolution as a low end AMVA3 panel. In fact, it's not even close. Since I don't think there's anything wrong with my C630, my conclusion is that AMVA3 produces a sharper, more well-defined image than this type of S-PVA panel. Again, that doesn't mean the black level or anything else is better, but it does appear to achieve a higher resolution.

How would you know it's misinformation unless you've compared an AMVA3 panel side-by-side with an S-PVA panel using the same sources? I've spent hours comparing these two panel types, and it's clear that AMVA3 produces a sharper picture. There's nothing wrong with my 40C630 either. It's simply not as good as my 46B500.

Why is this result all that surprising anyway? S-PVA monitors are noted for producing fuzzier text than other panel types. Why couldn't the same fuzziness apply to video sources?

BTW, a replacement A panel for the 40C630 costs a lot more than the S panel equivalent - $1200 versus $800.

also..is there a way to play movies on my tv from my computer through the ethernet cable? iv got the samsung pc share manager and got the folder that has the files in it as shared but its telling me on media play "no movie file in current device. select other category"

Guys, i purchased Samsung 40C650 and i am looking for the best settings for my tv.

I am also using a ps3 slim for watching blurays..

What do you suggest for these categories? or do you have special topic just for the settings?

1- ps3 bluray movie
2- ps3 game
3- ps3 divx
4- Samsung usb mkv
5- HD TV
6- SD TV

If it is logical, i can start a topic about...


Thanks..

I guess the B750 series is pure c**p by your standards and not very good. How do you know if the new C650 series "S" panels are not the "new type" you write about? How do you know for sure there is a "new type" of S panels?

I, and many others, have seen excellent S panel LCD. Your statement that S panels have "serious resolution problems and is just not a very good TV" is just too general, tends to scare off a lot on newbies and simply not true.

B750s have a completely different pixel structure than 630/650 models. The subpixels build up vertically like AMVA3....



In fact, my understanding is that B750s in some parts of the world came with AMVA3 panels.

As you can see below, subpixels on the 630/650 are completely different...



They either look like brackets >>> or else rectangles |||, depending on the brightness. There are no partial subpixels other than the one bracket shape, so the matrix isn't as fine as AMVA3. This lack of fine structure will clearly limit resolution, especially with rescaled sources. Even S-MVA and older AMVA panels have more structure than this.


The UE40C7000 uses a new type of panel (version# SQxx) that apparently hasn't been seen before on a Samsung LCD....




I think most *newbies* would be misled by the deep blacks of a 630/650 S panel, and immediately think they had a great TV. After viewing it for a while and comparing it to other TVs, they would likely see - as I did - that the resolution just isn't very good. Yes, these panels have deep blacks and good color, but that's really all they have going for them.

I believe there are SQ panels in the C600 series and I find the resolution just fine. I'll take deeper blacks, better color and wider viewing angles any day along with a picture that is sharp enough.

Your conclusions are more subjective and all I can conclude from your demonistration above is thet yes, there are varations in the pixel structure but which one produces a sharper picture is not evident. To say that the S panles are inferior, "has serious resolution problems and is just not a very good TV", is simply not true.

the reason the HDMI black level option is sometimes greyed out is because the device you are using only supports one color space and the tv is defaulting to that color space (and its not necessarily the one listed when its greyed out).

if you set your player to rgb 0-255 set the tv HDMI black level to Normal. if you set the player to rgb 16-235, set the HDMI black level to Low

I just bought the 46b650 last nite for $1100 with a full 3 year in home warranty included....have to say i am very impressed with what i got.....lots of bang for your buck here !!!! even the digital channels look to be almost hi def.....

great tv for the price....i am keeping it

There is an increase in contrast and color accuracy with a glossy screen vs a matte screen. Other than that, there should be little difference in the PQ other than the 650 seeming a tad bit brighter and sharper than the 630.

I found both panels listed at partstore.com. Actually, most A or C panels at that site are more expensive than the equivalent S version.

For models where mutiple panels are used, Samsung service manuals generally list the S version as 2nd type or alternate panel. This indicates that the A and C versions are more common for those models. My guess is these *2nd type* S panels are probably just leftover stock from previous models.


Yes, I had the AA01 version, but returned it because a vertical dark line appeared on the left side of the screen.

I could immediately see that the resolution on the SQ02 wasn't as good. It was like going from an LCD monitor to a CRT monitor with the same resolution; i.e., the picture on the SQ02 has kind of an analog appearance.

Previously, I had 40B550 S and C panels, and the S panel in that case also looked blurry. I suppose it's possible that the graphics processor in these TVs is optimized for the A or C panel type, and that may account for the lack of sharpnesss I see with these S panels. I tend to think the difference has more to do with the pixel structure though.


My AA01 had some flashlighting in the top left corner. I didn't notice any odd artifacting. In fact, I see a lot more artifacting on my SQ02, especially with SD cable.


Yes, the 40C630 AA01 and 46B500 AA01 have the same AMVA3 structure I posted above.