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Sköll-Prototype 3-D/4K Screening Room of the second decade of the 21st century .... - Page 3

post #61 of 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hi, space restrictions?

Peter, great project and a massive amount of work! Thinking of space restrictions, perhaps you could put subs in the riser? Always a fan of getting the bass 110% Having 4K back into the build is a real positive.
post #62 of 425
Peter,

How bout that 4 driver rig from Genelec for the sub/s?

It impressed me.
post #63 of 425
Thread Starter 
That is what Mike Chaffe is adamant about, but I wont have it reducing the screen or taking up imaging air around the consequences. Probably in it's sister project Albiorix it can go.
post #64 of 425
Great updates, fantastic to hear 4K is back on the menu.

As for the changes in sound, I'm sure those Dynaudio's powered by Krell monoblocks are going to sound terrific! I know this is a screening room, but I gotta believer that just for stand alone two-channel audio, it will still be pretty darn good (and exceptional for DVDA and SACD if anyone plays one of those it this theater).

Have you made any more progress on the screen? So far it looks like there isn't a clear answer on the best combo 2D/3D screen (it seems the default might be two screens), and then it seems adding AT capabilities will even make that harder to find the ideal screen.

I saw in this press release that Image Screens apparently has the world's first 3D AT screen, but of course "first" doesn't necessarily mean the "best"
http://www.audioholics.com/news/pres...creens-imasque
post #65 of 425
Thread Starter 
Yes every time one of these comes up I start searching wide for new speakers, the more I hear the more I miss that enticing and fatigueless dynaudio signature. The problem is I often blow drivers as with the c4's, the speaker sounds so unrestrained it is easy to want to crank up until an alien explosion does it's deed. With the consequences I have found a Dynaudio loudspeaker that cannot be blown . Not to mention that it is on a level way above the Temptations, it is one of the most detailed and accurate speakers out there.

Regarding the 3-D screen, SMX has a new material that works great with 3-D active systems.







Cedia visitors to booth 2658 are going to see something not possible in movie theaters, 3-D light levels that conform to the 16 foot lambert smpter standard for 2-D.
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post #66 of 425
Uhm, Wolfgang enjoyed a fairly local theater not to long ago two Sony's making for 20fL in 3D.
post #67 of 425
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post #68 of 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Yes every time one of these comes up I start searching wide for new speakers, the more I hear the more I miss that enticing and fatigueless dynaudio signature. The problem is I often blow drivers as with the c4's, the speaker sounds so unrestrained it is easy to want to crank up until an alien explosion does it's deed. With the consequences I have found a Dynaudio loudspeaker that cannot be blown . Not to mention that it is on a level way above the Temptations, it is one of the most detailed and accurate speakers out there.

Regarding the 3-D screen, SMX has a new material that works great with 3-D active systems.







Cedia visitors to booth 2658 are going to see something not possible in movie theaters, 3-D light levels that conform to the 16 foot lambert smpter standard for 2-D.

Peter,

Is the new SMX screen material available now? When I do make a screen change this would be the logical choice.
post #69 of 425
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

Peter,

Is the new SMX screen material available now? When I do make a screen change this would be the logical choice.

Some Post Houses have it already, Ruben stopped for a mini-vacation in Orlando, he will be back tomorrow.
post #70 of 425
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Let me tell you I was floored by the new cinepro speaker line so I asked Gus to come up with a couple of options.

This is the High end which I wont do: With 7 x 30 amp 208 feeds I doubt that California would take kindly to one of these being installed over there, they have a ridiculous carbon footprint.



But there is a lesser option with 4 x 208 30 amp feed that I may do. At least from a speaker standpoint I am going that route.








I am very attracted to the idea of having full remote access to a system, as inevitably I am shipping systems overseas more and more, and I saw this system, that if the amps sound anything close to the Cinepro's THIS WOULD GIVE ME EXACTLY what I need. So I am inquiring into it, but I need to hurry because the walls are going up and so is the electrical system.
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post #71 of 425
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post #72 of 425
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post #73 of 425
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post #74 of 425
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We have dropped fancy audiophile equipment for more of DCI type components.



Just yesterday (and it cost me a 171$ traffic ticket for driving on the express lane of I-95) I went to listen to a good friend of mine's Installation. He is a top audio rep for a brand COLDMACHINE and JIM HTPC die for. Well, you can't say that I have given every audio brand, and not to mention several highly touted CEDIA DEMO booths, plus flew to Los Angeles to listen to the famous Piano maker's $350,000 and $1,000,000 sound systems, and my own slew of Dynaudios, Meridians, JBL Synthesis, McIntosh and Martin Logan.

To obtain the finest results for this project I have listened due diligently to everything out there, it is ironic that the lot of these systems are a joke compared to my 35 listening sessions of the Kraken at the 3-D Stadium. In my wildest dreams would have I ever thought contemplating what I am saying but the new CINEPRO BFM "is the drug I am thinking of."

Speaking of due diligence I had pre-configured a ($168K system at list) purchase order for the SKOLL room and had it in my pocket to negotiate an option for skoll in case the G system could deliver what I heard at the stadium- I also put on hold the skoll electrical plans as the cinepro reqires 6 30 amp 240 volt circuit. You guessed it, I didn't even bothered to take the piece of paper out of my pocket.



DISCLOSURE: I AM NOT ASSOCIATED and previous to cedia preferred to be entirely dissociated with CINEPRO, I am commenting out of my fatigue free marathon of 130db pure sonic nirvana for 2.5 days out of which I survived with my sensitive ears unscathed.



This very famous top 3 Nordic studio brand installation I heard yesterday sound was atrocious, to be polite.

First that 6 foot 4-driver coffin subwoofer sounds like every over subwoofer in the brand -designed to sound big but always sloppy, always slow, and always boomy- WHAT A POS, Not so with the CINEPRO or the JL's.

The surround speakers are like 4K each they have their own box- with Clash of the titan they farted apart. It is obvious that the driver choice does not cut it and they are severely underamplified, same with the 15" based fronts , NO HOLLOSONIC soundfield PURE fatigue ear damage at only 115db- a nightmare for my good friend the studio engineer. He did not disagree.

COLDMACHINE you are either a very unscrupulous manipulative self centered fill in the blanks (for sock pup-petering for this brand) or you are an IDIOT. One of them. Have you ever seen the movie TARAS BULBA? Get it on 35mm at the end the tartars and the polish cavalry fight their ways into a raveen and 400 soldiers with their horses fall down a cliff. After last nigh I feel that this is what you are accomplishing at avsforum, and I have to pay a f_cking 171 dollar trafic ticket for this epiphany? LOL.

"But the room could have been treated differently" some could say it was treated proper. A fantastic space .

SINCE NO ONE SEEMS intent on getting screening room audio right, I am going to lay out the facts for home theater Audio System selection you completely have to dissociate yourself from the audiophile appendix legacy brands. For any brand that has evolved from 2 channel audio: exercise a healthy triple dose of skepticism invest in the clash of the titans (there exists no other reference ).

Play the Medusa scene, this should have an eery hollosonic soundtrack with incredible musicality and when the time is right (the medusa falls on the pit) prodigious tight layered bass that punches trough your chest. That is the way you will experience it with the BFM, maybe at 125 db without noticing any strain.

The scene of the Kraken starts with a loud heroic music score that climaxes with a monster creepily emerging out of the bottom of the ocean, as it slowly reveals itself the crescendo gets bigger and bigger (deeper and deeper) until it becomes mountainous.

This mountain of a monster growls and it is as it were in the room, then the beast prepares itself to dispense his roar. Meanwhile the music and hollosonic surround has you grabbed by the B____s it is a very tasking selection because unlike gunshots it is a complex mix -very layered. This is up to the point that the Kraken finally roars -it disgorges the Mount Everest of roars, humongous, slamming it front to back across the room with incredible panning accuracy until this Mount Everest of sound slams to the back wall and appears to demolish the back wall of the room with just the perfect amount of the multiple low frequency decays. It is one of the greatest rides in the history of audio, surround sound, and musicality. CAVEAT EMPTOR after yesterdays audition I believe this scene will only play this gloriously on maybe 2-3 out of the hundreds of surround systems out there. I LOVE IT.

For the audiophiles I can attest that the system played the Andrea Bocelli with fantastic results as well.

The system appears to be based on a custom made horn, with a very good 8 inch driver. But how come the JBL never sounded like this? I guess there are horns and there are horns which brings me to the Meyers.

If you want to deal with a much bigger company than cinepro then it appears that the future of home cinema sound appears to lay squarely on these two companies shoulders. I have not heard Mark S either It would to know if it can handle the Kraken.
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post #75 of 425
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IWS BFM-4811 SUR Biamp sides.

AWS BFM-2811 SUR Backs 4.75 deep with special horizontal positioning cross over adjustment.

The D-Box arrangement ( we want every seat with piston type in chair actuators) upon further investigation requires metal plates weighing 120 lbs to hold the three center chairs together.



This forces our hands to use narrower seats and outside armrest on the four exterior seats and additional armrests for the inside of these outward seats as each piston must reside inside an armrest.



This has freed 6-8" on each side to make the walkway wider and to create a second set of walls.

Steve Hass Acoustics has been called in to detail all of this out and tomorrow Marc Cote head of acoustical design for SH A will do his site visit.
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post #76 of 425
Qualio,
I am looking forward to your findings regarding the Meyer Sound System and comparing it to Cinepro. It would be nice of you to audition Seaton Sound give your findings as well. By the way, what is the ballpark figure for the high-end Cinepro sound system?
post #77 of 425
Thread Starter 
Hi Haroon,

Yes it shall be interesting, ask Mark, Art, or one of the many Seaton owners about it playing the Kraken scene at over 125 db with full 3D soundfield preservation when the Kraken roars. We only have time and funds to audition one last (presumably more capable) system for potential incorporation in just the behind the screen array. The surrounds are final as drawn in last rendering ( except position of front sides which will be matched for the two row heights).

In any event the surround sound depth of cabinet advantage goes to CINE P, the speakers on this last final ss speaker array revision are only 4.5 inches deep.

Meyers are 6 to 15 sloped. So no go. The walls will be getting thicker to incorporate two vertical strip elements of AT Black Velvet among the other room treatments and decorations.

On a different URGENT subject matter (Massive potential EMI & RFI), take a look at the huge runs of wire and greenfield being run during the last week.





Only a fool would attempt running balanced low level lines across this minefield. We will definitely need a digital transport. Fortunately the transmission side of up to 16 channels of Aes EBU has arrived to the lab.



Initial impressions of the AP20 are that eschews fine metal casing on the sides, top, bottom and back with a basic commercial movie theater utilitarian unfinished sheet metal in favour of a brilliant touchscreen with tactile feedback (i jumped when i first felt it), Super Cool but definitely a rack piece.
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post #78 of 425
Thread Starter 
+4K6 Mk-5 SE-Gold $14,495
+4k6 Mk-5 $12,295
+3K6 Mk-5 SE-Gold $9,995
+3K6 Mk-5 $8,295
+IWS BFM-4811 LCR 6" deep $9,995 each
+IWS BFM-4811 SE LCR 6" deep $11,995 each
+IWS BFM-48 SE 6" deep $4,995 each
+IWS BFM-6811 LCR 6" deep $12,995 each
+IWS BFM-2811 Surround 6" deep $6,495 each
+IWS BFM-4811 Surround 6" deep $9,995 each
+Custom 3 channel HDR Distribution Maximizer $2,995
+Single 21" HVV-Passive Subwoofer 24"Hx 24"W x 24"D $12,995 each
post #79 of 425
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post #80 of 425
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post #81 of 425
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Problem is mounting of projector and siting is done from the sides. So we have asked for a similar design but with front /back supports. 1/2 threaded rods attach to deck. The projector hushbox is floating/flex tensioned to isolate projector from sound waves.


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post #82 of 425
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post #83 of 425
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Could not have a 440 lbs ups at the bottom of a 400 lbs capacity. Su we underkill it a bit with 2 120v 3kw ups'.



There are other changes, this is a full blown 4k 3-D (native and real-time converted) at all times system (with 2-D override in 3-d bypass mode) a $5K broadcast Cinema Satellite receiver has been added for the Deluxe Echostar direct to cinemas program.

2 2x8 crestron matrixes were changed for an 8x8 digimedia. The 300 vault Kaleidescape is a future option to the existing dual 100 disc vaults.

2 apc smart power distros were added.



I will create the front racks next, also rather than running massive cables to the rack for the d-box motion and Cineak chair controls (see existing design above), we will mount those components under the platform creating a fourth rack.
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post #84 of 425
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Next is time to scale the conceptual rack above into one that matches the tight quarters rack being specified. I bet things will have to get cut... I shiver with anticipp...ation.

Yep this rack is going to bust!






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post #85 of 425
Thread Starter 
The final system design deadline was met today, the sound system?

It is horn based , but none of the two previously discussed.

I will reveal with the final drawings next.

These are the final stretch renderings which did not go...







Carlos the BIM modeler had been using Avatar pics in the renders, I told him to make a point to use Res Evil Afterlife ."Ya hear me Cameron and Katzemberg"

From a Percival Zone Of Comfort's maximum virtual space activation (the in your face 3-D extravaganza factor) none of your movies hold anything over REA.

Sony beat your pants off in 3-D.
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post #86 of 425
Thread Starter 
Any one reading the thread from beginning to end could surmise that the continuous indecision in the speaker and amplifier package demonstrate weakness, well hold it right there buddy. I take my job very seriusly and faced with a daunting task of giving the client the absolute best possible sound this is my due diligence.

So shut the f__K up and learn!

I completely discounted JBL Synthesis and along with that ANY AND ALL HORNS based on the horrible experience reminiscent to the Gen___c demo 3 weeks ago.

I LET MY FEELINGS KNOWN HERE.

Merdian was discounted too for having blown 13 tweeters with their own processor and Laserdisc player adapter. A closed system should preempt this as a basic feature.

B&W are horrible speakers except the diamond every time I see you guys that own them proudly expounding about them on the forums, I laugh and ask myself : "From what C*K#$&!NG Planet are these people?" Really you guys are the worst in my book.

Kharma Grand Exquite Diamond all surround system, well yes, but i could buy a beatiful home on the ocean for that much.

I so in all earnest wanted the beautifully transparent sound of Dynaudio which has never let me down ( with the exception of very high dynamics and some blown drivers, but a sound that is my cup of tea). My safety blanket.

So we started the design of Skoll with custom Dynaudio speakers designed by the very top audio consultancy in London. While the speakers would perform after equalization, I had the hair brained idea of creating an all digital surround system by T__T audio, unbekownst to me from feb 2010 to august 2010 spent a torturous time with a plethora of problems with just the surround processor, at one point I was sooo mad I called the owner Bozo.

Surely there could be a better solution, I followed the trail of the former partner who had just got backing from a huge 300 year old Piano company that implemented the Helmholtz resonator in their pianos somewhere in the 1800's.

There is was the same surround processor as before, but built by a much larger company with the same digital amp, the ribbon drivers promised to sound good. We spent a thousand dollars drawing up the theater with these speakers, people complemented me on my possible collaboration with an audio hall of famer. Well this guy is going senile or something, because I flew all the way to LA to listen to this systems, one $350K and another $1,000,000.

Let me just say that besides a slow long 5 hour pitch about how this system uncannily reproduced the Brand A Piano ( it's like this gentleman took three months off on a sailboat in the Baltic -and half a Kilo of Marijuana just to come up of coincidences and parallels between the freaking old pianos- that I don't give a damn about and this surround sound system).

Long story short after the 5 hour "Piano root canal", after that i did hear both systems, and like Dennis has said RIBBONS HAVE NO F____G PLACE in home cinema -"ya hear me cold machine with them Adams". At one point of the all musical material played at 90/100 with ****** muffled sound with no discernible surround field, I heard the same song that cinepro used at the Temple Of Home Theater - A lady singing : the way you make me feel with a sax. Then I asked him to play it louder, and the #$%^& carefully turned the brass knob from 91 to 94, I felt like grabbing the thing but he was obviously very apprehensive of reaching the volume ceiling (The Cinepro rendition had been way better than there). Let me not mince words: these systems are the biggest ripoff -most incompetently sounding, unabashedly unconvincing surround systems out there. On my way back I thought of places where this Audio Giant could plant his Piano surround systems in.

Because the piano brand surround fiasco I had to resort to my Dynaudio safety blanket, but now I had jettisoned the all digital surround amplifier kit concept.

So I get back to the drawing Board and look at the Krell, with the Big new super inefficient Dynaudios .What was I thinking ? to defy the laws of physics in a single leap. Well as you know I designed it that way with 6 genelec surrounds (later I was going to hear these same in on wall surround works of art - being facetious-Explode upon my very ears) but I am getting ahead of myself.

TBC
post #87 of 425
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Before I conclude my defending the why I did it my way dissertation, I will tip my hand.







This will be the new front rack:



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post #88 of 425
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post #89 of 425
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21" subs x 2



side and rear subs



LCR



Sides inverted over sub columns



rears

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post #90 of 425
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Looking at the front elevation we see that the lcr horns are too low.



This is better.


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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › Sköll-Prototype 3-D/4K Screening Room of the second decade of the 21st century ....