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Outlaw 998 - wish list

post #1 of 13
3/13/10 at 2:38pm
Thread Starter 
With the advancements of digital media streaming with products like Squeezebox Transporter and Touch, I believe it's more important to have excellent 2-channel digital (S/PDIF) and the multi-channel (HDMI) playback capability. I hope that Outlaw is listening to their customer needs and would come out with pre-processor that would focus on one main objecting concentrating on playing beautiful MUSIC.

Somehow there are many companies who're more concerned with cranking-out the latest and greatest gimmicks/features on the annual basic and forget about the music lovers who simply need a better sounding system. Most of the latest receivers and processors collapse the soundstage, compress dynamics making the music sound thin, dry, sterile, boring, anemic and uninvolving.

I vote with my money and will no longer spend a single dime on any gimmick infested audio gear unless they go back to basics' and learn how to build equipment that plays beautiful music.

Also, I will never buy a receiver or a processor which uses relays to route signals between different paths. All relays deteriorate over specified life span were switch resistance exponentially increases towards the end of its life.

Beside the 2-channel and multi-channel music playback, I would like to see the following useful features:
- 7.1 XLR outputs where I can assign 2 of the channels for bi-amplification
- Individual channel 0.5dB amplitude and <6 inch delay adjustments
- 5Hz crossover resolution from 40Hz to 100Hz.
- No relays in the signal path
- On-board TDS-MA and DolbyHD stream decoding
- Flexible room correction:
- Fully automated for novice users
- Manual adjustment to fine-tune house curves using RoomEQ Wizard.

So, what are your thoughts?
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post #2 of 13
3/13/10 at 3:28pm
If there are 100 responses, there will be 100 different wish lists.

I agree in general that the reproduction of music, both stereo and multichannel, should be priority #1. How it is accomplished, at their price point and given the production deadline, is crucial. I believe that the key to excellent musicality in a prepro is the digital to analog conversion process, in both design and implementation.

Regarding the 998's musicality, I also think that AlxG and I are in the minority, and it will be marketed touting the Trinnov room correction for the home theater crowd. In theory, shouldn't Trinnov work just as well for both multichannel music and movies?
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post #3 of 13
3/13/10 at 4:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post

If there are 100 responses, there will be 100 different wish lists.

I agree in general that the reproduction of music, both stereo and multichannel, should be priority #1. How it is accomplished, at their price point and given the production deadline, is crucial. I believe that the key to excellent musicality in a prepro is the digital to analog conversion process, in both design and implementation.

Regarding the 998's musicality, I also think that AlxG and I are in the minority, and it will be marketed touting the Trinnov room correction for the home theater crowd. In theory, shouldn't Trinnov work just as well for both multichannel music and movies?

I was always wandering why certain automatic room correction would sound differently when playing 2-channel vs. home-theater music material. I think I may have found the answer within the http://www.realtraps.com/art_etf.htm article.

“in a room primarily used for two-channel music, the ideal RT60 is somewhere under 0.5 seconds over as wide a frequency range as possible. However, in home theaters it's common to have even less reverb because movies usually have the desired amount of ambience already added to the sound track by the mix engineers. So for a home theater, an RT60 of 0.3 or even 0.2 seconds is a common target.”

Since I use the system 50/50% for music and movies, I want to have an option to specify the reverb time (RT60) for the reverberant sound to decay by 60 dB in order to specify the right amount of absorption when I’m listening to music or watching movies.
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post #4 of 13
3/13/10 at 9:09pm
I'd like Audyssey DSX with the additional Height and Width channels, and some form of loudness control like Audyssey DynamicEQ or Dolby Volume (if it can do that w/o dynamic range compression).
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post #5 of 13
3/13/10 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I'd like Audyssey DSX with the additional Height and Width channels, and some form of loudness control like Audyssey DynamicEQ or Dolby Volume (if it can do that w/o dynamic range compression).

I doubt you'd see Audyssey features like DSX and Dynamic EQ in a Trinnov-based pre-pro (which Outlaw said the 998 will be), but PLIIz and Dolby Volume would be fine alternatives (assuming, as you said, the loudness compensation and dynamic range compression aspects of Dolby Volume can be applied independently).
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post #6 of 13
3/13/10 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

With the advancements of digital media streaming with products like Squeezebox Transporter and Touch, I believe it's more important to have excellent 2-channel digital (S/PDIF) and the multi-channel (HDMI) playback capability. I hope that Outlaw is listening to their customer needs and would come out with pre-processor that would focus on one main objecting concentrating on playing beautiful MUSIC.

Somehow there are many companies who're more concerned with cranking-out the latest and greatest gimmicks/features on the annual basic and forget about the music lovers who simply need a better sounding system. Most of the latest receivers and processors collapse the soundstage, compress dynamics making the music sound thin, dry, sterile, boring, anemic and uninvolving.

I vote with my money and will no longer spend a single dime on any gimmick infested audio gear unless they go back to basics' and learn how to build equipment that plays beautiful music.

Also, I will never buy a receiver or a processor which uses relays to route signals between different paths. All relays deteriorate over specified life span were switch resistance exponentially increases towards the end of its life.

Beside the 2-channel and multi-channel music playback, I would like to see the following useful features:
- 7.1 XLR outputs where I can assign 2 of the channels for bi-amplification
- Individual channel 0.5dB amplitude and <6 inch delay adjustments
- 5Hz crossover resolution from 40Hz to 100Hz.
- No relays in the signal path
- On-board TDS-MA and DolbyHD stream decoding
- Flexible room correction:
- Fully automated for novice users
- Manual adjustment to fine-tune house curves using RoomEQ Wizard.

So, what are your thoughts?

You might want to read this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1234473

To give you a taste of what this product will deliver, here are some of the top level features for what we have code-named the Outlaw Model 998:

* Multiple 3D-Ready, HDMI 1.4a inputs and outputs, including a front panel jack for connection to digital cameras and camcorders.

* On the audio side, Dolby Volume, Dolby PLIIz, high-performance DACs and balanced audio outputs.

* Also on the audio side, our commitment to the Trinnov Optimizer has not changed. We have heard and evaluated Trinnov and assure you that it is the real deal: far ahead of any room correction system we have ever heard, at any price. With this new product, we will implement Trinnov so that it works the way it is meant to be used - and heard! Trinnov is fully on-board with our plan, and they are now exchanging details with our engineering teams.

* On the video side, there will be state-of-the-art video processing and scaling when you want it, and full bypass when you don't. The interface and menu system will be straightforward, easy to use and powerful, all at the same time.

From the features above, I would say that they are going for the latest and greatest features for HT.
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post #7 of 13
3/13/10 at 9:36pm
These are two very important things that must be in the new receiver besides what they have already announced (IMHO):

1. PQLS-Multi so that he can get close to jitterless hdmi
2. A decent way to upgrade the firmware so that it is seamless for the user and yes that means it must have inbuilt internet connectivity.
3. Provide support for the height channels (hopefully in Trinnov as well)

In the case of point 1 pioneer only implemented the hdmi standard for reducing jitter and called it PQLS where most other manufacturers have not. Point 2 is essential, they should look at the Denon receivers for someone that has done it correctly.
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post #8 of 13
3/13/10 at 9:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broke_ht_nut View Post

These are two very important things that must be in the new receiver besides what they have already announced (IMHO):

1. PQLS-Multi so that he can get close to jitterless hdmi
2. A decent way to upgrade the firmware so that it is seamless for the user and yes that means it must have inbuilt internet connectivity.
3. Provide support for the height channels (hopefully in Trinnov as well)

In the case of point 1 pioneer only implemented the hdmi standard for reducing jitter and called it PQLS where most other manufacturers have not. Point 2 is essential, they should look at the Denon receivers for someone that has done it correctly.

Agreed, some form of clock recover in the HDMI is an absolute must in order to minimize the amount jitter and in turn improve an overall sound quality.
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post #9 of 13
3/13/10 at 10:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eecubed View Post

You might want to read this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1234473

To give you a taste of what this product will deliver, here are some of the top level features for what we have code-named the Outlaw Model 998:

* Multiple 3D-Ready, HDMI 1.4a inputs and outputs, including a front panel jack for connection to digital cameras and camcorders.

* On the audio side, Dolby Volume, Dolby PLIIz, high-performance DACs and balanced audio outputs.

* Also on the audio side, our commitment to the Trinnov Optimizer has not changed. We have heard and evaluated Trinnov and assure you that it is the real deal: far ahead of any room correction system we have ever heard, at any price. With this new product, we will implement Trinnov so that it works the way it is meant to be used - and heard! Trinnov is fully on-board with our plan, and they are now exchanging details with our engineering teams.

* On the video side, there will be state-of-the-art video processing and scaling when you want it, and full bypass when you don't. The interface and menu system will be straightforward, easy to use and powerful, all at the same time.

From the features above, I would say that they are going for the latest and greatest features for HT.

If Outlaw will only focus on features such as 3D and will not concentrate on delivering the best possible sound quality especially in its 2-channel playback from the digital source, than I will spend my hard earned money with vendors who recognize their customer's needs.

Features are nice to have, but a good sound quality is a must. Therefore, unless we demand it, they will not build it.
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post #10 of 13
3/13/10 at 11:36pm
Because Outlaw has also said that they have been working on this for awhile and now hope to have it out sometime toward the end of 2010. It would also point towards it's overall design as probably being pretty much already finalized as to what it will have and what it can do. So I don't think making a 998 "Wish List", is going to do much as far as making Outlaw change or add anything major to the 998.
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post #11 of 13
3/14/10 at 8:02am
Quote:


now hope to have it out sometime toward the end of 2010.

Which in Outlaw speak means 3rd or 4th qtr 2012 before relatively bug free firmware is avaialble.
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post #12 of 13
3/14/10 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post

Which in Outlaw speak means 3rd or 4th qtr 2012 before relatively bug free firmware is avaialble.

Not so sure it will happen like that with this one, granted I would not be a whole lot surprised if it came out 3-6 months later than they are planning/hoping for. But I think Emotiva, Outlaw and Sherwood are all really starting to wake up to the fact they can't keep promising products to be out by a certain time, and then keep postponing it, making excuses and then eventually have them show up two+ years late. And even worse two+ years late and also loaded with bugs and operational issues.
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post #13 of 13
11/22/10 at 11:22am
Sorry for digging up an old thread.. As a 990 owner, here is my wish list:

-power light on top of power button. I still hunt for it in the dark after 6 years.
-USB input so that my macmini (HTPC) will see it as a audio device directly
-on screen menus on all outputs (esp HDMI)
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