Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!!

happy nightmares, hopefully you post any new pictures or thoughts of your vt20 in this thread since the last one went off track.

Thanks nicholc2.

Save me a space on here. Please post happypost on here until I get my 58VT25. Hopefully, by June.

Might need to change the title to say (No MLL increase or Kuro talk).

Any guesses to what the surprise he mentioned was. Jimmy, too bad we have to wait until June/July for the 58" and 65".

Thanks for starting the owners thread Nicholc2. That other topic has gotten off track. I'm moving my original post here, and will be back soon with an update. Am I the first VT20 owner here? That's cool. Do I win a special prize or anything?

Please give us some more pics and any update you can. The wait is killing me.

My inital impressions are VERY good. Plus, I'm keeping picture levels down low for break-in, so the picture should be even better once I can make some decent adjustments. Assuming this goes like my past Plasmas after break-in for 100-200 hours, what I'm seeing now is only the tip of the iceberg.

I should also mention we have a new Samsung 8500 LED local dimming set (CNET calls it the "King of LCD") that we've been watching now for about 2 weeks, so the VT20 is up against some stiff competition for picture quality in our house. We also have a Mitsubishi 837 series DLP, 2008 and 2009 Panny plasmas, and a couple other assorted TVs. Our house has a TV in every room, lol.

I will be back soon....

THX Mode: Looks great, and no more feeling of being "too dim" like some (myself included) complained about the previous models. The THX mode feels like it's putting out plenty of light, and the contrast is only set to 60 and fully adjustable to 100, so you can increase further if you like.

Gaming Lag: Wow, this TV is fast. After 2 weeks of using the incredibly sexy Samsung 8500, I had convinced myself that it's "game" mode eliminated most of it's processing lag, and it certainly did improve things quite a bit, however playing on the VT20 plasma made me realize how sluggish the 8500 still was. There is no comparison... playing the same games on the VT20 feels like both my PS3 system and Internet connection had been given a boost. It's impossible to ignore. And it doesn't matter what mode I use on the Panny plasma. Games played in THX mode are faster than using the "game" mode on the Sammy 8500. This is not meant to be an insult to the 8500. It's an awesome TV.

Cooling and Ventilaton: There are 3 fans along the top section of the back panel. One in the middle and one at each end.

Sound: There are 3 speakers; two downward firing full-range speakers, one at each bottom end/corner of the frame, and a bass speaker on the back panel that fires out directly at the wall behind the TV. I have not had a chance to really listen to these speakers much, because as usual I hooked up the TV to my stereo immediately, but I will give them a nice workoput tonight and report back for those who are interested in the information.

Frame and Trim: The silver frame and trim is really nice looking. When unpacking it, don't be fooled by the reflective nature it has with the protective stickers on it. Once that film is removed there is no issue with reflections. In fact, it has an almost matte-like finish, and there are less reflections than with most glossy black frames. It's a classy look in my opinion, and a refreshing change from the standard glossy black.

Thanks. Very good review indeed.
What about significant surprise?

Would the surprise be two pairs of glasses or the 3d bluray player thrown in?

happy nightmares,

When you get a chance could you please comment further on the comparison of the VT's PQ vs the Samsung B8500? Particularly the PQ of movies- film like vs video, motion blur , any black crush and MLL levels.

Thanks

I had bought from BB a 55B8500, but cancelled the delivery and when back to my comfort zone of plasma. But this set at BB had almost plasma like motion with the processing turn-off and had great black levels. Did notice the viewing angle too, but can live with it. Just thought I still saw more of the typical video look of a LCD. But that might be just an adjustment factor.

Maybe if you come to town.

nicholc2, you have been one of the most helpful people on this forum since I've been a member here. I've learned a lot from you, about all kinds of different stuff. Especially on the DLP side of calibration, but also with the other technolgies too. I want to thank you for that.

Line Bleeding: It's virtually gone from what I can tell. Woohoo!

This is the first plasma television from any manufacturer I've seen in the past 2 years that did not show significant (horizontal) line bleeding. Even the Pioneer Kuro sets suffered from it, and I'm one of a few people here at the forum who returned one for that reason. The picture quality was top class, but the line bleeding was just as bad as Panasonic or Samsung, or anybody else.

That's IF you are susceptible to seeing it, and most people are not. For most people, it's not a problem and they never notice. In that regard, I suppose it's like seeing rainbows on DLP sets. Some people are bothered by it, and some don't ever see them.

Anyway... I had given up on Plasma, because in 2009 we purchased multiple sets from Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer, and they all exhibited the issue significantly. Before that, we were huge plasma fans. Since last year, I have purchased everything from DLP to LCD and LED-LCD, because the line bleeding on plasma bothered me that much.

I realize this is not big news to most people, since most people were never bothered by it to begin with, but in my opinion it's BIG news for plasma. I've been puzzled by this issue for a long time and spent many hours researching it, because it frustrated me. I have gathered so much information that I have considered starting a website about it. Or at least a support group for those bothered by it, like me. Ha!

But now, it appears that I (and others bothered by line bleeding) can return to plasma technology.

I cannot say there is absolute 0 line bleeding, but I have not seen any obvious signs yet, and that's amazing.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to become about line bleeding, and I'm not sure what Panasonic has done differently with these 2010 models but whatever they did... it's FANTASTIC news as far as I'm concerned.

I wish.


Yes sir I will.

I have to be honest though, I'm keeping the levels very low during break-in so I'm not sure this will be a fair comparison. I would feel more confident doing it after break-in so I can turn up the contrast etc.

I noticed the S2 I looked at in Sears the other day had much less noticeable line bleed than the S1, at least on the couple test images I tried. It was not non-existent--just significantly improved. BTW, when I put up the same green movie preview image on my 500M I see none--I could still see slight traces on the S2.


Which Kuro did you have? My 500M shows only a very mild hint of it if you are looking for it--orders of magnitude better than '09 Panny/Sammy PDP's.


I have an extremely hard time believing this. I suppose it depends on which Kuro you had, since I can't claim they are all identical. Other Kuro owners or D-Nice would know better. I can only speak for my 500M, and the difference in line-bleed from my 500M to the plasmas from Sammy/Panny was not even close. Not in the same league. And if you ever saw the line bleed on the last generation of Hitachis, you would not say they were all the same. The Hitachis were just horrible in this regard.

The reason I am skeptical of your claim is because on both the 2007 and 2008 Kuro demo discs they have content that is specifically designed to reveal line bleed on other displays, but show how their product is superior. If all the Kuros had the same amount of line-bleed as that of other manufacturers, I doubt Pioneer would put content on their demo disc highlighting this issue. I'm sorry, but until you offer some sort of documentation or proof, I cannot accept your claim that the Pioneer Kuros showed the same amount of line-bleed as other plasmas. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the reason it seems to be so much improved on the 2010 Panasonics is because of Pioneer engineering that made it into the Panasonics.


Once again, tell us which Pioneers you owned. My 500M does not exhibit the issue significantly. I'm not saying there is no line bleed at all, just that it's far better than last year's offerings from Sammy, Panny, and LG.


Please tell us where you noticed it the most? Share with us which film clips you saw it in, or are you a big fan of a certain television programs like boxing and one called The Office? Apparently this show had lots of scenes with people standing in front of horizontal blinds. I don't watch boxing or sitcoms.


When did you see obvious signs of it on your Pioneer, and how big was your panel, and how far away did you typically sit?

So you're saying the line bleed was a figment of his imagination? Sorry, but it sounds like you're calling him a liar without any reasonable cause. Not that I have a Kuro to say one way or another, but is it so hard to believe that he might have had a Kuro that did have line bleeding? No one's saying that all or even most Kuros have this, but apparently his did. Maybe he got a bad set, I don't know. But it seems a bit jumpy to be calling him out and accusing him because of this.

Im bit confused, will be there VT25 in 54" or not ? On lineup are only 50" or 65", but on website they have g25 in 54".

Anyone mind shedding some light on the differences between the VT20 and VT25? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

My G15 rocks, but I want 3D!

Oh god yes!! Im still debating between this or the C7000/8000. The only problem is that they wont be out until mid April to early May

Here's a link to download the Operating Manual for the TC-P50VT20:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP50VT20.PDF

100 Times +

And thank you "happy" for putting us on a path to some sanity.

Come on June!!

As far as i know the VT25 adds an ISFccc mode that ISF Calibrators can make use of, and an RS-232 port for custom installations. The VT20 doesn't have these two features.

The VT20 comes in a 50" and 54" size. There are no other sizes planned.

The VT25 will come in a 50" and 54" size, then later they'll add the 58" and 65" sizes.

Heaven forbid someone said something negative about a Kuro...

Nightmares, you've invigorated my interest in the 65VT25. I am most j terested in thenew AR filter. My V10 does great, better than my 850U, but I'm willing to take a hit and sell the V10 if the AR filter is significantly better (of course there are other advantages too).

[quote=tlh1005;18314225]Heaven forbid someone said something negative about a Kuro...

Exactly!!

I think by line bleeding you where/are talking about green phosphor trailing which also made me abandon plasma a few years ago. The reason that you don't see it on the new v20 is because they have reduced the green phosphor decay time so that it matches red and blue phosphors. This was done to create a better 3D effect, but it's also great to get rid of it for 2D as well

DocuMaker,

Damn... I was afraid this might happen. I don't want to argue. But at the same time, I feel it's important to state my findings regardless of what a few people might say to me. This is good news for those folks who are sensitive to line bleeding. And in my opinion, it's an important step forward for plasma.

Even though your post sounded a bit... accusational... I'm going to do my best to reply with facts in a friendly professional manner.

The Pioneer model I returned was a 5020 Kuro. I know at least one other AVS member who returned the same exact model for the same exact reason -- line bleeding. And it was indeed just as bad as the Panasonics and Samsungs. There is no reason on this earth I would make up something like that. Nor would he.

Furthermore, besides the plasmas sets from Pioneer, Panasonic and Samsung that I had in my home, I also spent weeks going around to every BestBuy, Circuit City (still in business at the time), Frys and Sears in the Dallas metroplex, examining more sets from more manufacturers. I can honestly say that I did not see a single plasma TV from ANY manufacturer that did not show line bleeding. Not one.

I documented the line bleeding on the new Panasonic G10 I purchased here at the forum last year, only to be insulted by some Panasonic fanboys who claimed it didn't exist, or that something was wrong with my eyes. After that very unpleasant experience, I decided to just keep my mouth shut and continue my research. I moved on to Samsung and then Pioneer, with the same results. Then I moved away from plasma completely, and have since purchased every other technology you can think of.

By the way, being an expert on TV calibration will not help somebody see line bleeding. Being an expert on TV technology will not help somebody see line bleeding. So I don't care 'who' you check with, it doesn't change the facts. If you are sensitive to the issue, you will see it easily. If you are not sensitive to the issue, you won't see it, or you will have to look very hard for it. Furthermore, test patterns do NOT always show it. Only real content with it's endless variety will make this situation noticeable, and even then only to those people who are sensitive to it.

As for types of sources... everything from network tv shows, blu-ray movies, cartoons/animation, and even video games. It's everywhere. You mentioned boxing, and that's a good example. If a fighter is standing in front of the ropes, you can see faint traces of the rope lines which appear over his body, as if they go thru him. But that's just one example, and it doesn't show up in every single boxing match. What determines how and when it shows up is a mystery to me.

Is it possible that some units of the same model have line bleeding, while others don't? Yes it's possible. Since we don't know for sure all the possible causes, anything is possible. Is it possible that all the plasma TVs I've seen over the past 2 years were defective? No, I find this very unlikely. As far as I can tell (and I guarantee I've researched it more than most people here) line bleeding is inherent to plasma technology. It's not a defect. Perhaps you could call it a side-effect or a flaw, but whatever you call it, it's very real. Just because you personally don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

Finally, let me wrap up by saying that I was not trying to insult Pioneer in ANY way. And I was not trying to say that Panasonic is better than Pioneer. I was simply stating they had the line bleeding issue too, like the other manufacturers. The issue is with the technology itself, not any single manufacturer. Pioneer Kuro sets have awesome picture quality and there's a good reason they are considered the reference standard. But, they are not perfect. There is no perfect television and there is no perfect technology.

Anyway, this thread is about the new Panasonic VT20/VT25 and I hope we can keep it on track. I will not bring up the line bleeding issue again, and the only reason I brought it up to begin with was because it's great news for these new models and for those people like me who are sensitive to the issue. However, it's against my nature to back down or be intimidated by anyone who calls me out, so I felt the need to reply this time.

Peace.

EDIT / P.S. -- As for Hitachi, I haven't gotten my hands (or eyes) on that brand, but my research agrees with you, and I've found Hitachi sets were some of the earliest models reported to have significant line bleeding issues and there were plenty of people who complained about it. So I cannot dispute what you are saying about them being the worst. It sounds logical.

VT20 first impressions continued.

Fan Noise: With 3 decent sized fans spinning away on the back of the set, I was afraid it might be noisy. It's not. The TV was running all night long (full screen content of course, to help speed me thru break-in) about 5 feet from my bed. I did not hear anything. No buzzing or humming at all.