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Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 5

post #121 of 10650
I know I'm in the minority, but I really like the silver and bronze bezels of the 20/25's. Looks like they don't kick up much glare, which is great. I'd really be considering one of these if it wasn't for the black level debacle.
post #122 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCold1906 View Post

Any bezel pictures to show color and texture.

Go here for some pics:
http://hdguru3d.com/index.php?option...news&Itemid=59


Here are some pictures of the "blah" silver glossy bezel.





LL
LL
post #123 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

I know I'm in the minority, but I really like the silver and bronze bezels of the 20/25's. Looks like they don't kick up much glare, which is great. I'd really be considering one of these if it wasn't for the black level debacle.

I don't mind the bronze VT25 but the glossy silver VT20 is way too distracting.

Nice details on the VT25
post #124 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog View Post

I don't mind the bronze V25 but the glossy silver V20 is way too distracting.

If you mean the VT20, the silver is not glossy. On the contrary, glare and reflections are not an issue, and it's much less distracting than typical black glossy frames. I really like it. Some of those promotional pictures give the wrong impression.
post #125 of 10650
The VT20 is NOT glossy. It's a brushed titanium finish. It's also darker than the official photos suggest.

The VT25 (bronze), however, does look to be glossy from the pics I've seen.
post #126 of 10650
Temperature: Running almost 4 days non-stop, I'm impressed by the lack of heat. Everything is still cool to the touch and you don't feel a heat zone around the TV, unlike some of my previous plasma sets which could double as space heaters in the winter.

Approaching 100 hours tonight. Should be able to start doing more serious viewing and evaluating soon.
post #127 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

The VT20 is NOT glossy. It's a brushed titanium finish. It's also darker than the official photos suggest.

Here is a real life picture, and yes it is not glossy, but it is still "blah" silver/gray.




I like a TV where the bezel disappears when I am watching it.


LL
LL
post #128 of 10650
How is IR on the VT sets? If you play a game with a static HUD for a few hours can you notice it at all after?

Would also love to see some good pics of HD content (preferably blu-ray) on them after calibration .

Thanks and keep the info & pics coming
post #129 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog View Post

Here is a real life picture

Nascar Dog,

I'm afraid you are still under the wrong impression. That picture you posted above has a bright spotlight shining directly on the TV. You can see it clearly in the photograph. That is the only reason the frame appears to be 'bright' or glossy. So unless you plan to watch TV under bright spotlights or sitting outside in the noon-day sun, it's not an issue.

There are other real life pictures posted in the 2 Panasonic threads, from VT20 owners like myself. There is even a video. This frame does indeed fade into the background, and is not distracting at all. It is much darker than you think.
post #130 of 10650
Here you go... and this is not in a completely dark room. There is an overhead ceiling light on. The frame is closer to a 'dark' silver than a 'light' silver. Unless of course you put a bright spotlight or camera flash on it. I should mention there ARE a couple shiny chrome accents, if that might bother you. You can see the shiny stripes in the photos, at the top/bottom of frame, and on the stand. But they are not distracting, and look very nice in my opinion.





post #131 of 10650
Will be there 54" model for Europe also ? Why US got 54 and 58 and EU not (by panasonic global) ? Its not fair ...
post #132 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog View Post

Here is a real life picture, and yes it is not glossy, but it is still "blah" silver/gray.


is the bezel a metal or plastic?
post #133 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by djh3ll View Post

Will be there 54" model for Europe also ? Why US got 54 and 58 and EU not (by panasonic global) ? Its not fair ...

I think you will get a 54 and not the 58. Fair? There are trade-offs. You guys get to plug a hard drive in and we don't. You guys also get a V20 which is non-3D while folks in the US don't have that option.
post #134 of 10650
When will the 65VT25 be available in the US guys?
post #135 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmscs View Post

When will the 65VT25 be available in the US guys?

Kevin,

I talked to someone I consider to be a reliable source yesterday and they indicated they expect shipments Mid - Late May. This is a bit earlier than someone else who pre-ordered from a B&M and were told 6/11.

-Nick
post #136 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by x94blair3 View Post

Kevin,

I talked to someone I consider to be a reliable source yesterday and they indicated they expect shipments Mid - Late May. This is a bit earlier than someone else who pre-ordered from a B&M and were told 6/11.

-Nick

Oh wow good news. Thanks. Even if its 6/11 that would do for me. I just want one 65 inches on or before 6/11 thats y.
post #137 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Just like everything else he was wrong or lying about, he also lied to you about the warranty. Panasonic considers this issue to be occuring as designed and not a defect and they are not entertaining requests for it to be repaired. Since it is not considered a defect by Panasonic, there is no way in hell that BB's warranty will cover it.

Kinda why I went in depth explaining "The Sitch" and his rants. To take everything the guy said with a grain of salt. The way Panasonic explains in their legal statement is that it a feature of the TV to keep producing the best color over the life of the TV. While there are reports of black level differences the ones that experience huge differences are the anomalies and not the norm. Gotta beleive those guys would be covered under warranty if they had gross differenes in balck levels. Lots of TVs have problems when they are first made. I had a "green blob" Sony SXRD but the set was replaced with a new one. I have to think if it wasn't a slight change in balck level but a gross one (much more than what the VT-10's in the Magnolia store have seen) that it would be covered. But it is tough to quantify or get in writing. After viewing the V-20 I fell in love with the picture (and price). Would hate to think a black level scare would keep me away from buying one.
post #138 of 10650
Hey guys,

Can somebody please remind me how to check the hours? (been a while since I did that on a Panasonic)
post #139 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCold1906 View Post

is the bezel a metal or plastic?

Plastic
post #140 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCold1906 View Post

is the bezel a metal or plastic?

It's plastic (or some synthetic material) but it's not the cheaper stuff. It has a high quality look. The fit & finish on the TV is excellent.

And it's made in Japan.
post #141 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog View Post

Here is a real life picture, and yes it is not glossy, but it is still "blah" silver/gray.




I like a TV where the bezel disappears when I am watching it.


Why are you arguing with people who have actually seen this display in person? Pictures can play all kinds of tricks.
post #142 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoracer51 View Post

I don't think you are going to find a LCD in the VT's size and picture quality with the 16ms you quoted. I know the Sharp Aquos has been mentioned as not being too laggy, but are you willing to sacrifice that much for just 14ms?

I was referring to LCD 'monitors' (i.e. not hdtv's) when I said the typical lag is 16ms.

16ms for an HDTV : lh30 series with LG panel, LZ800, 650a, not many more...
It's hard to get below 30 with an HDTV.
The VT20/VT25 is by no means slow in regards to its peers.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who wants a display only for use as a computer monitor.

Meaning that I'm willing to give up quite a lot of features, and certain other items weigh more heavily than usual (like lag).






FYI, My ideal display :

- 2d 120hz input and output (120 unique frames per second)
- 3d 120hz input, with 240hz output (120 unique frame pairs per second, each refreshed at 8ms per eye, refreshed twice per frame)
- 0 ghosting in 3D
- 0 ms input lag, always (like iiyama somehow manages to do with a bunch of their lcd displays)
- 1080p+ resolution (but not too much more - to keep game frame rates high at native rez)
- 45+ inches
- nice black levels, so I can use it at night with low brightness setting, without searing my eyes.
- Color quality is nice to have, but I don't care if it looks 'just ok'.
- I don't care for any post-processing technologies whatsoever.
- Inputs : 1+ vga 1+ dvi 1+ hdmi
- audio is irrelevant
- extra technologies (i.e. netflix, usb pictures, movies, etc) are irrelevant
- priced under 2500 usd (though, I'll take free if someone wants to give! :P)

-scheherazade
post #143 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Why are you arguing with people who have actually seen this display in person? Pictures can play all kinds of tricks.

Something tells me his presence here was not *really* to educate himself on the VT20's frame color.

Me thinks some of the Pioneer guys might be getting a little jumpy with all the attention the new Panasonics are getting. You will notice he completely ignored my photos and comments, and instead focused on the single photo of the VT20 with a spotlight on it, at an angle. You will also notice he posted a photo of a Pioneer as an example of what he likes. It's photo of course was taken straight-on without any spotlight.

Oh, and the follow-up post regarding the bezel being "plastic" with the sad face... that was a nice touch. Silly Pioneer fanboy. So transparent.

Wait until all the Panasonic (and Samsung) owners start posting about how great 3D is. That's going to drive him crazy.
post #144 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Something tells me his presence here was not *really* to educate himself on the VT20's frame color.

Me thinks some of the Pioneer boys might be getting a little jumpy with all the attention the new Panasonics are getting. You will notice he completely ignored my photos and comments, and instead focused on the single photo of the VT20 with a spotlight on it, at an angle. You will also notice he posted a photo of a Pioneer as an example of what he likes. It's photo of course was taken staright-on without any spotlight.

Silly Pioneer fanboy. So transparent. LOL

Let's not go overboard here. The VT's look nice and they are a definite step in the right direction, but they are still lemons as long as the black level problem remains.
post #145 of 10650
How are we going overboard by calling-out an obvious troll in the thread?

I'm not even talking about the TV or black levels, but I find it interesting you mentioned those things when quoting me. Hmmm.

hhaller, if you want to take a shot at Panasonic, feel free. Go ahead. It won't bother me. They deserve it. It's not my company and I have no particular attachment to their brand, or any other. But please don't use my quote as some type of disguise or excuse for your shot against Panasonic. Your comment and my comment have nothing to do with each other. I was talking about 'people'. You are talking about black levels and "lemons" etc.

I have nothing against Pioneer. They are the benchmark. However, there are Pioneer fans and there are fanboys. Like anything else.

Peace.
post #146 of 10650
Happy Nightmares: Since you brought up the Panasonic stylings (i.e., bezel/stand silver trim), do you notice any reflections on those surfaces when the room is completely dark? This is something I never gave much thought until you mentioned it a few posts back, and looking at the pictures I find myself a little bothered by the silver trim. I currently have a Pioneer 111FD so I'm used to an all black bezel and with all the lights off the image is just floating up against the wall. It came as a shock to see Panasonic taking a not-black-bezel approach to the flagship models.

On a different note, I was BB today hoping they had the G20, but only saw the S2. I spent all of 3 seconds looking at it because the reviews on here give me the impression it's inferior to the S1. Anyway, as I was walking out, I took one final pass down the wall of tv's and realized they had the Samsung C7000 setup in the HT booth with shutter glasses sitting out. As soon as I sat down in the chair, an employee walks over and changes the image to 3D (Monsters vs. Aliens was playing).

The way the employee flipped to 3D mode on the fly was very slick. The remote has a "3D" button, and you can switch between 2D and 3D modes with all of two clicks.

First off, I feel the 3D image on the Sammy has a much more believable field of depth than what Sony currently has setup in their own stores. (I don't remember which Sony model I was viewing, but at the time I was Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs and was reminded of a cheap-looking puppet show with the front field of view images appearing as flat as paper and backdrop covering the rest of the screen).

Motion on the C7000 in 3D mode appeared decent, except I noticed some ghosting on fast moving images. Fast moving parts where not as crisp as they appear in the 2D mode.

The biggest point I want to make about this (and really the whole reason I type this post in the first place) was to give my impression of 3D's implementation with shutter glasses. The Samsung glasses are hard plastic and very uncomfortable to wear. I tolerated it for 10-15 minutes to give 3D a fair evaluation. It's "neat" but nothing I'm willing to give up my Elite over anytime soon. For the first 5-10 minutes of viewing with the shutter glasses, my eyes felt okay, but after 10 minutes my eyes felt like they went through the equivalent of a visual marathon. No headache, but eyes were beginning to strain. I have NOT seen Avatar, but if the theater experience is anything like what I just felt using these Samsung shutter glasses, there's no chance I could make it through a two-hour movie.

I explained the eye strain issue to the BB employee, he gave me his personal opinion that 3D is a gimmick to which I agree right now, but I was about to pounce when he said "3D requires you to buy a $3k+ tv, a new BD player and receiver". Thankfully, another customer interrupted me before I said more than "that's why some newer and futureBD players (will) have dual HDMI outs".

Sorry for the rant, just my humble opinion.

This is just my opinion on 3D; hopefully, I'm in the minority because I'd like to see something new come along, but I'm doubting the acceptance of 3D after this experience.
post #147 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by esp2684 View Post

Happy Nightmares: Since you brought up the Panasonic stylings (i.e., bezel/stand silver trim), do you notice any reflections on those surfaces when the room is completely dark? This is something I never gave much thought until you mentioned it a few posts back, and looking at the pictures I find myself a little bothered by the silver trim.

First, let me say the frame itself does not cause any real glare or reflective issues under normal lighting conditions that I have tried.

However, those small silvery-chrome accents are a different story. They do show up and reflect a bit with any light in front of the TV. If you have a lamp or ceiling light on, you will see those chrome stripe accents pretty clearly. When the room is dark, or I have only my ambient lighting (ideal-lume) behind the TV, they are nearly invisible except for the the light coming from the front of the TV itself which does slightly illuminate the bottom accent stripe and the stand, but you have to look for it.

I don't think anyone would find it distracting in the dark. But some folks might object to having the silver-chrome accents to begin with, under normal lighting. I think it's subtle and tastfully done, but others might disagree. Especially if you are going for the invisible, fade-into-background look.
post #148 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy nightmares View Post

Something tells me his presence here was not *really* to educate himself on the VT20's frame color.

Me thinks some of the Pioneer guys might be getting a little jumpy with all the attention the new Panasonics are getting. You will notice he completely ignored my photos and comments, and instead focused on the single photo of the VT20 with a spotlight on it, at an angle. You will also notice he posted a photo of a Pioneer as an example of what he likes. It's photo of course was taken straight-on without any spotlight.

Oh, and the follow-up post regarding the bezel being "plastic" with the sad face... that was a nice touch. Silly Pioneer fanboy. So transparent.

Wait until all the Panasonic (and Samsung) owners start posting about how great 3D is. That's going to drive him crazy.

Well, since Panasonic is not replacing the Z I was hoping the VT will have a similar frame texture. I believe the Z is a metal. Pioneers are also plastic, most flat panels are, that's why I liked the Z.

So the poster might not be a fanboy. I prefer the metal bezel also.
post #149 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCold1906 View Post

Well, since Panasonic is not replacing the Z I was hoping the VT will have a similar frame texture. I believe the Z is a metal. Pioneers are also plastic, most flat panels are, that's why I liked the Z.

So the poster might not be a fanboy. I prefer the metal bezel also.

Apart from the chrome accent, (still don't know why Panasonic continues to do this) I like the bezel on the VT20. The Z1 honestly didn't do anything for me and even came off as a bit cheap looking. Don't get me wrong, it felt rock solid, but I just didn't like the aesthetic. (pictures of the new Samsung C8000 LED-LCD struck me the same)

I think Pioneer has the right idea with just a clean box frame. I love the "one sheet of glass" look of the PZ800U and some other sets, but when it comes down to it simple is best in my opinion. One thing that manufacturers don't do too often is provide a matte finish. Panasonic did with the VT20 and hopefully the VT25. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the last time Panasonic had a matte bezel was for 2008's short-lived Black Friday special 50PE8U. Simple and clean. Kudos to Panasonic for giving matte a go again.
post #150 of 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by esp2684 View Post

after 10 minutes my eyes felt like they went through the equivalent of a visual marathon. No headache, but eyes were beginning to strain. I have NOT seen Avatar, but if the theater experience is anything like what I just felt using these Samsung shutter glasses, there's no chance I could make it through a two-hour movie.

There was a very interesting piece in the NY Times "Science Times" section week or so ago that explained why 3D movies tend to make our eyes uncomfortable: In the real world, our eyes adjust to distance in two ways: a) the two eyes converge on an object at a particular distance b) each eye focuses at a particular distance by adjusting the curvature of its lens (or, after a certain age, by looking through a different part of your progressive bifocals.)

Since we were all babies, we've learned to coordinate the two. If we look at someone 6 feet away, our eyes converge at 6 feet and they also focus at 6 feet. It's instinctive.

It's different at a 3D movie. If some body part comes flying toward us from the screen, our eyes converge on it at a point maybe halfway between our seat and the screen. However, the focus point for each eye to see a sharp image of that flying body part always remains at the screen surface.(Where the projector is focused.) In other words, our brain is telling our eyes to converge at, say, 10 feet while it's telling the lens in each eyeball to focus at 20 feet.

That never happens in the real world, and it gives us a feeling of straining, or maybe even a real headache, especially at first. After a while, we sorta get used to it and, if it's a more "realistic" movie (vs. one with a lot of forced dramatic depth effects,) the feeling of strain goes away. Also, it's more comfortable to sit near the back of the theater, because the difference between the converge distance and the focus distance is less.

(Just something to kill time waiting for Chris to get MY 50VT25 in stock.)
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