Official Panasonic TC-PxxVT20/25 Owners Thread NO PRICE TALK!! - Page 242

Originally Posted by i want more

65vt25 calibration by shawn byrne from sound advice

"if you have never has a set calibrated you don't know what you are missing. Money well spent."

Originally Posted by I WANT MORE

65VT25 Calibration by Shawn Byrne from Sound Advice

Last Saturday Oct. 2nd I had the privilege of having Shawn Byrne come to my house to calibrate my 65VT25. He also did a touch up on my Elite Pro 151 which had been calibrated previously.
Shawn arrived on time and ready to go to work. He started with the 151 because the Panny is in a very bright room and we wanted to wait until sundown to calibrate.
Shawn explained what he was doing along the way and answered the million questions that I had throughout the calibration. (I pretend to know something about TVs and calibrations). He was not annoyed at my constantly looking over his shoulder and seeing what was going on on the computer screen.
The results on the Pro 151 were spectacular as expected.
After a short dinner break He moved on to the Panny. I was anxious to see what kind of results could be achieved with this set. As I've mentioned on here before the ISF calibration on the Pro 151 that I had done a year ago rendered spectacular results and I was really hoping for the same with the Panny.
Well, expectations fulfilled, results delivered. This baby rocks.
Shawn calibrated ISF day and THX on all of the inputs that I requested. Not a small task as I have DirecTv, Cable, PS3, BluRay, WII, VCR, and a BOSE surround system (Yea, I know, it was bought a long time ago) which I use for outdoor audio but it is connected to the Panny.
Shawn spent a total of about 8 hours calibration my sets.
I know I'll get flamed to death on this one but I "personally" prefer the picture on the Panny now as compared to the Pro 151.
If you have never has a set calibrated you don't know what you are missing. Money well spent. If you can get Shawn to do your calibration you won't regret it.

Originally Posted by I WANT MORE

65VT25 Calibration by Shawn Byrne from Sound Advice

Originally Posted by Richord


Is THX generally prefered over ISF Night?

Kevin Miller: Contrast Ratio: This is the Achilles heal of the TC-P58VT25. While blacks are very deep and inky, in the user menu in THX mode at least, which is the most color accurate of the picture modes, the panel begins to clip white at a Contrast setting of only 46, which yielded a paltry 17 fTLs (55 cdm2) peak light output. The TC-P58VT25 when tweaked in the User menu is not capable of acceptable light output for a well controlled environment on a flat panel, let alone your average living room where most flat panels are used. This is more like the light output we strive for in a dedicated front projection home theater that is completely black.

However, using the ISF ccc interface with ControlCal, I was able to get Contrast to 75, which yielded a more acceptable 27 fTls (87 cdm2) of peak light output. Unfortunately, this lack of light output limits the panel’s contrast ratio significantly. The lack of acceptable light output also negates the whole concept of implementing an ISF Day and ISF Night mode. At the maximum Contrast setting of 75 with no clipping, the panel barely achieves enough light output for a compelling ISF Night mode. Therefore, it is not possible to create a Day mode with sufficient light output without severe clipping of white with a major loss of detail.

Originally Posted by Richord

I'm only looking for the same tests on other manufacturers as is being conducted with the Panasonic line. Last years problem was an obvious one that triggered these tests this year. I'm not aware of anyone having an obvious problem this year with the VT25's black level showing a noticeable rise. If there is, I would like to know...

So far you haven't stated anything that shows us any evidence... You're simply making statements. Is there some test results you can point us to that shows us that other brands have lower MLL's after a 1,000 - 3,000 hours? We had the opportunity to view a single report that the VT25 had risen in black level after approx. 1,500 hours. Can you point us to something that actually indicates Samsung and LG have not risen during that time or that they improve. I'm not saying that they would be noticeable to the eye, but so far the VT25 has not had a noticeable rise, and yet it's being scrutinized because of issues with different models last year.

Simply stating that Samsung is the King of plasma, without offering some sort of facts does nothing for us, except to hear more opinion. If they were the King of plasma, they would be dominating the high end market because their of PQ. In spite of the issues they had with last years models, Panasonic's plasmas are still in high demand and the majority of reviews I have read so far, clearly indicate that the VT25 is the panel of choice for 2010. Some of those reviews even make mention that this is the closest PQ to a Kuro that can be had.

It may be true that Samsungs calibrate better/easier? Even if that's true, one of the shootouts indicated that LG had the best spec.'s on paper after calibration, and yet the entire panel of judges found the VT25 most appealing...

Originally Posted by Richord

Glad to hear... What about the Panny PQ specifically stood out, if anything?

I've only spoken with one calibrater so far, but he had not done any VT25's yet. I'm in the North East FL area and wouldn't mind speaking with someone who has some experience with these.

Is THX generally prefered over ISF Night?

Originally Posted by I WANT MORE

65VT25 Calibration by Shawn Byrne from Sound Advice

Originally Posted by htwaits

Thanks for your calibration report. I've added it to the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

It will help anyone who wants to contact Shawn if you add his AVS user name (SieraMikeBravo) to the top of your report using the edit command.

Originally Posted by skullnrose

Can you notice the difference between 0.004 to 0.007 footlamberts without using a meter ? Or for that matter what ever the blacks start at and what they might rise to ? I bought this TV knowing they are expected to rise at some point but wonder how noticeable it will be with the naked eye.

Originally Posted by dgould77

Also, has anyone noticed flickering at 96hz for 24p? I had to set it at 60hz to make motion and bright white scenes less jittery. I understand flicker at 48hz, but at 96 I would expect it to not be present.

Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn

Actually, I said the flicker in 2D 48Hz mode was so bad it was unusable and that flicker in 96 Hz mode appeared often enough to be annoying.

3.0 firmware had not been released at the time the review was submitted and the TV was returned to Panasonic. It had whatever the last firmware version was before 3.0 was released.

I've now seen a TV that may be able to exceed the performance of the VT25 for 3D... a Mitsubishi 3D DLP RPTV operating in checkerboard (reduced resolution) mode. It has no crosstalk issues in any of the places that the Sony and Panasonic displays had the same problems... the Sony had a LOT more crosstalk problems than the Panasonic, but the Panasonic still had some in common with the Sony. The Mitsubishi shows that the discs are fine and that the crosstalk is a display limitation. The reduced resolution of checkerboard mode is REALLY hard to detect. I thought it was going to be a deal killer, but images look quite impressive. Still trying to find the best settings for 3D on the Mitsu - and there are some issues with daylight scenes appearing too dark (bit night scenes do NOT appear too dark) which may be settings related. Time will tell if the Mitsu can surpass the VT25's 3D... it does on crosstalk already (in fact the Mitsu has ZERO crosstalk/ghost events in about 90 minutes of viewing which is better than what I see in movie theaters)... getting rid of the dark feeling to daylight scenes would seal the deal in spite of the lower-res checkerboard format.

I can't account for why there are so many positive reviews of the VT25s compared to my less positive experience... as I said in the review, I had fully expected to love the display and was dismayed at all the annoyances I found.

Also... since the review, I think the release of 3.0 firmware and perhaps another release of ControCAL software resolved the limited functionality of the ISF modes... not sure though as I've not used them myself since the updates happened after the review was submitted and the equipment was returned to Panasonic.

Originally Posted by Paul H

Why the flicker at 96Hz and not at 60Hz?

It has been explained in this thread that 24p @ 60Hz is really x2 or 120Hz in 3D mode. 24p @ 96Hz is really 48Hz x2 for 3D mode and 24p @ 48Hz is really 24Hz x2 for 3D mode.

Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma

That is excellent and everyone is allowed to have an opinion My question is with the calibrator doing both sets in one sitting, what did he think for the PRO-151FD VS TC-P65VT25 ?

Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo

HI Chris,

I was the calibrator.

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

Nimo,

Those glasses come with the display or did you have to order them?

Also, did Panasonic finally get rid of the open frame on the side?

Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo

HI Chris,

I was the calibrator. I can honestly say I was highly impressed with the Panasonic display. First time in a long time I can honestly say that. After calibration, both pictures were pretty close in comparison. The ISF mode's gamut was off which can be reigned in a bit using the VT25 profile, but since it is only two dimensions, it leaves the more important element out. In my personal opinion, THX mode had the best gamut and gamma tracking of all the modes. Light output between the THX mode and ISF modes was virtually identical (client preferred a bright display so we set it at 42 ftL). I was a bit disappointed in the 151's light output after some time now at only 37 ftL before the onset of clipping. I own the 151 as well, and I'll have to examine mine to say with any certainty that the light output diminishes with time (logical with the age of any TV). However, from a purely analytical point of view, the 151 remains superior by a slim margin, but that is not to impune the first impressions of the Panasonic 65VT25. Color me impressed! I am aware of Kevin Miller's review. My results were drastically different, so I'll be curious if there is significant differences in each panel and/or panel size, or if that particular panel just happened to be a bum unit. Based on what I observed, I give the 65VT25 a preliminary thumbs up! Looks to be an acceptable substitute for the now scarce Pioneer Elites. Best wishes!

Originally Posted by H_Prestige

1. Most typical VT25 owners haven't aged the set long enough for the first black level increase to occur. Hence no complaints. Yet. Check back in about six months and a lot of the owners will be kicking and screaming that their $2500+ TV's blacks are merely average.

2. VT25 is winning in the reviews because the review samples don't have many hours on them. So the blacks are better than Samsung at that point and that tips the reviews in its favor. However, after the MLL double or triples, what then? How on earth is the Samsung NOT a better plasma at that point?

3. Samsung has a .008 fL black level this year, twice that of the .004 fL of the VT25. So after MLL increase is complete, the Samsung will have BETTER blacks. If you have been keeping up, black level was the only advantage the VT had over the Samsung. The Samsung has a superior antireflective filter, superior video processing, and superior picture controls. Hence king of plasma. I think it is irrelevant that the Panasonic will have better blacks for approximately one year of use. If Panasonic had stretched it to something like 5 or 6 years, sure, I could overlook it. But just 1 year? Come on.

4. If you really feel Samsung, LG, and Pioneer plasmas have MLL increases like the Panasonics, feel free to prove it. Go ahead and conduct some long term tests and report back with your results.

Originally Posted by walt10710

Richord, thanks for the reply. I have had trouble being able to post.

It is a thin, white line at the very top of the screen. The right 3/4ths of the line almost has a flcker to it. It appears in the thx and full modes and you have to move out of and stay out of those modes for the line to disappers off the screen. It always appears on the Sundance channel. It always appears on certain programs such as Two and a Half Men. BB told me it is related to how certain programs are broadcast which must be all of Sundance programming.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

There are some 151FDs that cannot make it beyond 33fL in the ISF modes. Their ABL was set too high at the factory. However, this can be corrected in the field.

If you find any light degredation on your 151, it would be a first. I've already recalibrated 2nd Kuros with 8000+ hours of use and have not loss any measureable light output.... or change in black levels.

I find it interesting that you think THX mode's gamma and gamut are better than the ISF modes. I hope you are aware that the ISF modes have a gamut bug that you must understand before you calibrate it. Otherwise you will end up with some funky colors and/or green skin tones.

What was the gamma (not average) for THX compared to ISF?