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question about comcast digital migration and my over the air hd? - Page 2

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post

Well actually the picture quality is fine, I have no problem with it.

It's really just a motion problem. Lots of movement stutters the pictures. Again like I said the best example is the ESPN Bottomline which is really, really laggy through the STB. Honestly, the rest of the channels or ones that don't have a ton of movement (aka not sports) is fine.

The problem is that doesn't happen when I use the coax output of the stb, but it does happen with I use the AV output.

Is it possible an actual A/B switch as opposed to just a standard splitter would help the problem a little bit?

You could try that if it is satisfactory to you. Question 29 tells you how to hook this DTA up using an A/B switch.
http://digitalnow.comcast.com/FAQs.aspx?map=all_faq_map

If you have a 1080p 120Hz 32 inch LG tv, make sure that any motion enhancement is turned off for the composite input. I think you can customize the settings for each inout on the tv. I would mess around with this first.
post #32 of 65
Mine is actually a 720p 32" LG 32LG30. And yeah, I went through all the settings and everything. It all has to do with that input. I still can pick up those channels using the straight coax split and there's no problem. Something is going wrong in the transfer from the box to the AV input or the actual splitting of the cable.

I'll try the A/B switch over the weekend to replace my current splitter and see what happens. Thanks!
post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post

Mine is actually a 720p 32" LG 32LG30. And yeah, I went through all the settings and everything. It all has to do with that input. I still can pick up those channels using the straight coax split and there's no problem. Something is going wrong in the transfer from the box to the AV input or the actual splitting of the cable.

I'll try the A/B switch over the weekend to replace my current splitter and see what happens. Thanks!

Follow the instructions from question 29 from the link below to the tee to hook up the A/B switch. You will have to use a two way splitter also. Make sure the splitter is rated for 5MHz to 900MHz or 1GHz. It will be written on the splitter somewhere.
http://digitalnow.comcast.com/FAQs.aspx?map=all_faq_map
post #34 of 65
Alright thanks. The current splitter I have says 5MHz to 1GHz so I'm good on that front.
post #35 of 65
"In 2012, the analog basic channels will be removed and all channels will be encrypted. Then everybody will need some type of set top box or a device that uses a cable card. This will eliminate any possibility of cable theft."?

Is Comcast really going to encrypt limited basic in 2012? I haven't ehard anything to that effect. Thye might be planning to eliminate all analog channels then, but surely they won't encrypt the local channels. They would need a waiver from the FCC to do so.
post #36 of 65
They have not stated any plans to do so. All of their current materials indicate that limited basic channels will continue to be available in clear QAM.
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

Is Comcast really going to encrypt limited basic in 2012?

No, they have no plans to do so. They will probably eliminate all analog channels at that point, but Limited Basic should be in clear QAM.
post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Follow the instructions from question 29 from the link below to the tee to hook up the A/B switch. You will have to use a two way splitter also. Make sure the splitter is rated for 5MHz to 900MHz or 1GHz. It will be written on the splitter somewhere.
http://digitalnow.comcast.com/FAQs.aspx?map=all_faq_map

It's working a lot better, the A/B switch worked out perfectly. While the picture isn't quite as crisp, I'm not getting the annoying stuttering or lag which was my intention for the time being.

Thanks for your help!
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

...i have to connect digital adaptors to my two tvs to be able to get all of the channels. will this now mess up my free local hd stations i currently get? thanks guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

No, local HD will still be in clear QAM, which is how your HDTVs are picking them up from Comcast...

Most likely the wrong answer, Ken.

Comcast doesn't normally feed the HD/widescreen versions of OTAs to their former analog customers thru the cable boxes, whether full sized boxes, or the cheapo DTAs.

The customer will get a "cropped to 4x3" standard def version of the channel.

You have to actually subscribe to an HD package to get any channel, even your OTAs, in HD, over a cable box.

If you're using a DTA, you'll have to feed the cable in thru the RF input, which means you can't have a cable split and also feed "straight cable" (no box) into the QAM tuner.

The DTA will feed in on channel 3, in analog, and you get an analog converted SD version of EVERY channel.

Comcast may not actually scramble the OTAs on the digital side, but since your DTA is using your RF input, there's no way to feed the "pure" cable signal into the TV.

If someone had a regular cable box that uses audio/video lines to feed picture and sound thru a TV's inputs, you might then be able to still get the OTAs in HD by QAM. You'd have to split the cable feed before the cable box and feed one end to the box, the other directly into the TVs RF input.
post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

If you're using a DTA, you'll have to feed the cable in thru the RF input, which means you can't have a cable split and also feed "straight cable" (no box) into the QAM tuner.

The solution here is an A/B switch just before the TV's RF input, as described in the link in post #33 above.
post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Most likely the wrong answer, Ken.

It's the correct answer. You need to go back and read the original question and replies.

He is already getting local HD from his cable provider using his HDTV as the tuner, which means clear QAM HD. He wants to get the other Comcast Standard Basic cable channels, which have been recently eliminated in analog, so he must use a cable box for those. The box he currently has is a DTA, which does not receive HD, thus the advice to continue to use the internal HDTV QAM tuner for local HD and the DTA (either using a splitter and A/B switch, or a VCR or DVD recorder w/TV tuner) for Standard Basic cable channels in SD. Or, get an HD box for all cable channels.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post

It's working a lot better, the A/B switch worked out perfectly. While the picture isn't quite as crisp, I'm not getting the annoying stuttering or lag which was my intention for the time being.

Thanks for your help!

Your Welcome.
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

"In 2012, the analog basic channels will be removed and all channels will be encrypted. Then everybody will need some type of set top box or a device that uses a cable card. This will eliminate any possibility of cable theft."?

Is Comcast really going to encrypt limited basic in 2012? I haven't ehard anything to that effect. Thye might be planning to eliminate all analog channels then, but surely they won't encrypt the local channels. They would need a waiver from the FCC to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

They have not stated any plans to do so. All of their current materials indicate that limited basic channels will continue to be available in clear QAM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

No, they have no plans to do so. They will probably eliminate all analog channels at that point, but Limited Basic should be in clear QAM.

I am doing a copy and paste from a post I did to a member of another forum about the local cable system that I am on, as it relates to digital must carry.

It will answer your thoughts in your posts and also add to why cable companies will encrypt their line ups down the road.

Quote:


Digital must carry (as amended) requires that large traditional cable operators must continue carrying the analog broadcast signals to their analog basic subscribers until february 17th 2012.
The law also states that the broadcast basic standard definition channels, analog and or digital, must be carried in the lowest basic cable subscription package.
If the cable operator decides to eliminate the analog basic lineup before time they must give at least a 30 day notice and supply a device that will convert the digital signals to analog at no additional cost to the analog customer. This law does not apply to the analog cable channels only local broadcast channels.
This excludes all digital operators like AT&T Uverse and Verizon Fios because they were all digital well before the analog shutdown.

As for the HD broadcast signals, if the local broadcasters main signal is HD then the cable company must carry it on their system with no signal degradation. There is no reference in the law that these channels must be offered "in the clear" and carried in the lowest cable subscription package or be offered for free.

The law also does not prevent any cable operator from scrambling their entire digital line up, including local broadcast channels, as long as they provide a STB to their analog subscribers at no additional cost. Any channel that is carried on a cable system that is not encrypted is done so at the discretion of the cable company.

If the local broadcaster waives "must carry" and goes for a retransmission agreement then "must carry" rules no longer apply. What happens to the carriage of that local broadcast channel will be negotiated in an retransmission agreement and if no agreement is reached then the cable operator must remove those channels from their system. These agreements are renewed every three years. There is nothing the FCC can do about this.

Right now there is only two broadcast stations in the Wilkes Barre DMA that are must carry, WNEP and WVIA, the rest are all retransmission agreemnts. As you know WABC, Disney Corp., waived must carry with cablevision and went with a retransmission agreement. I suspect when the current must carry agreement with SE Sparta expires Disney will go with a retransmission agreement. If they can't make an agreement then SE will have to take WABC off of their system.

Also in a related issue the FCC has never mandated the incorporation of a QAM decoder to be installed in any electronic device. They only mandated that any device capable of receiving a over the air dtv signal must have a 8-vsb decoder built into it, since the ATSC only set the standard for over the air digital television broadcasting.
The government does not set the standard for cable or satellite broadcasting since these a privately owned closed loop systems. They can use any type of modulation scheme that best suits their own needs. This also includes Verzon Fios and AT&T Uverse. They can use any type of modulation scheme that best suits their own needs.

Since the government did not, and can not, mandate QAM decoders to be built into tvs then how could they tell cable companies to provide local HDTV signals to be provided in the clear. If none of the manufactures supplied QAM decoders in their televisions, how would cable customers be able to view these channels in the clear with out the need of a HD STB or CableCard? If you or anybody can find the FCC mandate for QAM decoders please post a link because I couldn't find any.

FCC Links:
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ord...1/fcc01022.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...CC-05-27A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...CC-07-71A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-07-170A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...CC-08-86A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-08-193A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-08-224A1.pdf
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post


It will answer your thoughts in your posts and also add to why cable companies will encrypt their line ups down the road.

In this case there is a difference between what the FCC requires, and what cablecos will do in their best interest. As always you are entitled to your opinion, but industry sources tell me cablecos will leave their lowest tier of programming in clear QAM because they want to, not because they have to.
post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

You have to actually subscribe to an HD package to get any channel, even your OTAs, in HD, over a cable box.

Comcast doesn't have any HD service, just HD channels, which are in various services, including both SD and HD in each service.

All HD channels, which are included in one's subscription, can be obtained through an HD cable box rental or a CableCard rental (no fee, it's included instead of an SD box) for one's own CableCard HD cable box.
post #46 of 65
"The law also does not prevent any cable operator from scrambling their entire digital line up, including local broadcast channels, as long as they provide a STB to their analog subscribers at no additional cost. Any channel that is carried on a cable system that is not encrypted is done so at the discretion of the cable company."

A cable company must have a waiver to encrypt limited basic. Otherwise, why did Cablevision of Manhattan bother to apply for one?
post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

"The law also does not prevent any cable operator from scrambling their entire digital line up, including local broadcast channels, as long as they provide a STB to their analog subscribers at no additional cost. Any channel that is carried on a cable system that is not encrypted is done so at the discretion of the cable company."

A cable company must have a waiver to encrypt limited basic. Otherwise, why did Cablevision of Manhattan bother to apply for one?

You have to remember that the 1992 must carry law was written long before there was digital television. The law has been amended a half a dozen times since. Basically, cablevision is getting a waiver to take down the analog basic line up and replace it with a full encrypted digital line up before the February 2012 analog shutdown date for cable.
Besides, a lot of the broadcasters are waiving must carry for retransmission agreements anyway so the point is becoming moot. WABC (Disney Corp) just did this with cablevision in new york city.

Also there is no where in the law that cable companies must provide any local television channels on their system for free. The general cost for broadcast basic is around 20 dollars a month. Since they are providing the proper equipment at no additional cost to their customers with legacy analog tvs, I really don't see what the issue could be with anybody.
The biggest benefit is there will be plenty of more room for them to add a lot more HD channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

In this case there is a difference between what the FCC requires, and what cablecos will do in their best interest. As always you are entitled to your opinion, but industry sources tell me cablecos will leave their lowest tier of programming in clear QAM because they want to, not because they have to.

Hi Ken,
What the cable companies are doing now and what they will be doing done the road is two different things.

My thoughts on why they are going to encrypt their entire digital line ups is going to be for financial reasons. Right now it costs more money to roll a truck to disconnect service than what it cost for them to give out a digital STB and never get them back. Those truck roll costs are rising every year. This is the main reason for getting the waiver:

Quote:


A. The Waiver Request
5. Cablevision seeks waiver of Section 76.630 in its New York City franchise areas in
conjunction with its transition to all-digital cable service in those areas.10 If Cablevision were allowed to
encrypt all of its service, Cablevision could leave its system hot, meaning that Cablevision would send
its fully encrypted signal to every home in the franchise area.11 This would allow Cablevision to connect
or disconnect service remotely without the need for a service call, but would require subscribers to have a
set-top box or CableCARD for every set to perform the decryption necessary to receive cable service.

6. Cablevision argues that waiving the encryption prohibition will reduce costs, improve
customer service, reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions, alleviate traffic, and have virtually no
negative impact on customers.16 Cablevision also claims that remote activation and deactivation will save
its subscribers the aggravation and cost associated with setting up appointments, missing work, and
waiting at home to receive service calls. Furthermore, Cablevision asserts that waiver will not frustrate
the purpose of the rule prohibiting encryption of the basic service tier because nearly all of Cablevision's
subscribers in its New York City franchise areas already have either a digital set-top box or CableCARD-
equipped device to view digital programming; thus there would be little or no added cost and
inconvenience.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...DA-10-34A1.txt
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

What the cable companies are doing now and what they will be doing done the road is two different things.

Again, industry sources tell me different than what you speculate. CV may well be an exception, as they are in a number of other areas compared to the larger operators.

The top 2 cableco's (Comcast & TWC) total over 36 million basic video subscribers, and if you add the next 2 (Cox & Charter) that gets you over 46 million basic video subscribers. CV as the 5th largest cableco has just over 3 million. In other words, the math may make sense for CV, but not for others. Believe me, it's been looked at.
post #49 of 65
"I really don't see what the issue could be with anybody.
The biggest benefit is there will be plenty of more room for them to add a lot more HD channels."
The benefit of having room for more HD channels comes from eliminating analog and going digital only. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS IN THE CLEAR DIGITAL OR ENCRYPTED DIGITAL! Encrypting doesn't free up one more bit of bandwidth.
The issue is I (and many others) don't want to have to use a freaking box for every tv! Those free boxes are SD only, and only free until June 2012. After that, there will be a monthly rental fee for each one. I want HD on each tv without a box! If Bright House encrypts limited basic then I will get rid of cable and go OTA only. If, by that time, ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX are cable networks, and the only OTA HD is PBS on a VHF channel, oh freaking well!
post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

The benefit of having room for more HD channels comes from eliminating analog and going digital only. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS IN THE CLEAR DIGITAL OR ENCRYPTED DIGITAL! Encrypting doesn't free up one more bit of bandwidth.

Exactly.

If the lowest tier is encrypted, all subs need a box. The savings of not needing boxes is the bottom line.

Cableco's are driving video profits from advance digital services, not from basic subscribers.

In 2009, Comcast posted $35.8 billion in revenue in 2009, a 4 percent increase from 2008. While the company lost 623,000 video customers, it more than offset that loss by adding 1 million high-speed Internet customers and 1.1 million voice customers. It also added 1.4 million digital video customers.
post #51 of 65
I've been watching this thread a while....one simple question, how is his Comcast Cable and the channels he does or does not from them get related whatsoever to "Over the Air" TV?
post #52 of 65
Thread Starter 
alright i just hooked the box. what kind of splitter do i need to get my hd channels back? thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by RCbridge View Post

If you are going to use a DTA (STB) at the other TV's you won't be able to get the HD channels as is.
Any method around this will require you to split the cable signal.
Split the cable signal, feed one leg to the DTA.
If you have a VCR or DVD recorder you can feed it with the output of the DTA and feed the TV with composite, S or component cable.

If you don't have a vcr or DVD recorder you will still split the cable feeding one leg to the DTA and the other to a 2 way switch, next take the output of the DTA and feed the other port of the 2 way switch, take the common of the 2 way switch and feed the TV.

If you use the above method when selecting the DTA signal leave the channel on 3.
When selecting the direct input just tune to the desired channel.
After doing this with the direct input you access the TV's menu and perform a channel scan (making sure you choose cable analog and digital) and see what you get.
post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

alright i just hooked the box. what kind of splitter do i need to get my hd channels back? thanks!

Almost anything you can find that connects to RG59 / RG6 coax F connectors.

From wall outlet - to splitter.
One leg of splitter to the DTA box.
Other leg of splitter to your HDTV QAM tuner

If your TV has just 1 antenna/cable RF connector, then you will need to add an RF A/B switch.
Output of the switch to your TV's RF onnector.
One input will be the output of the DTA box, the other input will be the other output of the splitter.
post #54 of 65
Thread Starter 
are there any diagrams out there. i am a bit confused? is that a splitter i can get at a radioshack?
post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

are there any diagrams out there. i am a bit confused? is that a splitter i can get at a radioshack?

Maybe - (on the diagrams)
Yes - you can also find the RF A/B switch there too

wall --splitter -----switch---TV RF input
...........+-comcast box-+
post #56 of 65
Thread Starter 
ok i see what kind of swtich i need. what kind of spliter should i get?
post #57 of 65
Here is an example of the type of splitter you're looking for -
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103924

You can probably find something cheaper that will work just as well
post #58 of 65
Since my mandatory upgrade to the Comcast box all of my channels are SD, including local HD channels. Comcast said if I upgrade to HD box service for an additional fee, my problem will be solved for all HD channels.
I've removed the Comcast box from the stream and I'm getting my local HD channels in HD once again. My channel line up is slightly mixed up, but I can live with that.
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Here is an example of the type of splitter you're looking for -
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103924

You can probably find something cheaper that will work just as well

No, he could find a much less expensive splitter, that works much better; gold splitters are no good, not conductive enough, and Radio Shack /= quality. The reviews, as I expected, are poor; way overpriced junk, as often is the case with Radio Shack.

My recommendation is for him to buy a splitter online, something like the cable cos. use; Regal, Broadband Extreme, or Antronix, and others like Steren are good too. For a DTA / TV tuner split, one would want a 2-way RF Splitter, marked 5-1000MHz, -3.5db loss on each port.
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by coppensp View Post

Since my mandatory upgrade to the Comcast box all of my channels are SD, including local HD channels. Comcast said if I upgrade to HD box service for an additional fee, my problem will be solved for all HD channels.
I've removed the Comcast box from the stream and I'm getting my local HD channels in HD once again. My channel line up is slightly mixed up, but I can live with that.

You could still receive SD channels from the DTA, in addition to HD from the TV's QAM tuner, using a splitter and an A/B switch (remote-controlled type is optional).
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