Sony HX5V/TX7 Owner's Thread

I thought it would be worth creating a thread about these new AVCHD-capable P&S cameras for owners to share their thoughts on them.

Official Product Page:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921666077169

Video showcasing its features:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKVIsjhGlvw

A good blog on the HX5V: http://hx5v.blogspot.com/

A few reviews/samples/previews:
http://translate.google.es/translate...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/HX5V/HX5VA.HTM
http://translate.google.es/translate...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Background: I've used digital camcorders and cameras over the last 15 years mostly for personal use, with some off semi-pro jobs (weddings, classes, etc). I currently own a Sony XR500V as my main camcorder as well as Canon 5DmkII DSLR that I mostly used for photos, but also play with the video recording feature once in a while.

Personal goal for this purchase: While I'm overall happy with the XR500V for video recording and the 5D for photos, I simply can't stand having to haul both units everywhere I go to capture both photos and videos, let alone even hauling one of them sometimes because neither fits in a pocket. And while some are happy with the XR500V photo quality, it's simply underwhelming me and are clearly sub-par when compared to what a DSLR or even a good quality P&S can do. OTOH, the 5D's video PQ can be great, but with the manual zooming and no auto focus while shooting, it's just not convenient to use as a casual P&S video capture capture IMO.

So, I've been looking for a compact unit that would give me "good enough" video and photo quality for a while now, one that I could just leave in my jacket pocket or quickly grab and go, mostly to shoot family moments.

Over the last few months, I've tried the Panny ZS3, Kodak Zi8 and Sanyo HD2000A to fill that void. All of them either underwhelmed me with their photo and/or video PQ or their lack of decent stabilization, which is something I've thoroughly enjoyed on my XR500V and don't want to compromise too much on.

When Sony announced the HX5V and read the specs, I got all giddy. I mean, 10x zoom 10MP P&S that records 17Mbps 1080i60 AVCHD with active OIS, Exmor R sensor, G lens with all the latest P&S bells and whistles from both their video and photo consumer lines in a small compact package? I was feeling like Sony read my mind and tailored a compact P&S just for me. And to be able to grab that unicorn unit for about $300 was icing on the cake when I was considering trying the TG5V which is more than double that price. It didn't take long before I pre-ordered it.

I've been hyping myself for the last month or so about this device, and even toyed with the idea of completely replacing my XR500V until something better comes out if the video PQ was good enough, since I'm primarily using my camcorder mostly in full auto mode for small clips (< 5 minutes).

Long story short, got the unit last Friday and with the background and mindset that I've layed out above, here are my first thoughts about it:

Pros:
- Small and light, as prescribed
- Amazing active OIS, on par with the one in the XR500V IMO
- Appreciably wider lens than the XR500V (pro for me)
- Best overall video output I've ever seen from a P&S by a mile
- Appreciably better photo PQ than what I can get from the XR500V
- Really cool photo features, like auto HDR, auto panoramic stitching and hand-held twilight modes
- Very innocuous to use compared to a DSLR or camcorder
- Nice graphical UI and menus (something I personally hated on the ZS3)
- Support for MP4 1080p30 12Mbps videos (A first for Sony to support both that and AVCHD in any unit)

Cons:
- While better than what the XR500V, photo PQ is not comparable to any DSLR output. Some compression artifacts and smearing artifacts (usually due to heavy noise reduction). Output will work great for website use and 5x7 enlargements, with occasional 8x10 printing, but not much else.
- Not as good in low-light as the XR500V, but IMO on par with the SR11 (which is amazing for a P&S of this size)
- No 5.1 audio. Stereo microphone on mediocre quality, with little wind protection
- 30 minute limit of video recording
- 4x3 LCD with significantly lower resolution than the XR500V. Impedes focusing efforts.
- Poor microphone placement (your left index wants to be right on top of it)
- Noisy zoom
- Slower auto focus than the XR500V. No manual focus that I found.
- No shoe adapter, no audio I/O, no lens adapter, no waterproof case option (yet)
- HDR, 10fps, pano and HHT photo modes can hang the camera for up to 6 seconds (making the camera a temporary doorstopper for that period). 6 seconds is a long time to wait, especially when you can see that the last shot wasn't good.
- No way to have the unit powered other than the battery (USB doesn't power the unit)

A few things that surprised me or found weird:
- The compass feature works indoors and doesn't use GPS.
- Speaking of GPS, expect the same sluggish experience than with the Sony camcorders (can take minutes to connect).
- Class 4 SD memory works perfectly for both heavy photo and video use (doc says 20MB/s minimum, which is obviously wrong)
- There is no USB, HDMI, audio in/out plugs. In fact, the only plug is a proprietary one at the bottom. The unit does come with an analog cable, which include a USB cable, as well as a small full HDMI adapter though.
- They kept the battery the same as the WX1, which makes it really easy to grab a <$10 equivalent.
- Some photo editing, though it fails on panoramic shots. No video editing.
- Weird Scene+ mode in iA, which supposedly takes an extra shot, with HDR or HHT mode, when it detects it's worth it, but unfortunately doesn't seem to yield the same results at their dedicated modes.
- Can groups 10fps shots together (cool feature), but not the ones from the Scene+ mode.
- Some video options are hidden from the menus depending on mode you are on. For example, there is no way to set WB in iA mode for either photo or video (which makes the iA mode a whole lot less interesting IMO). Switching from AVCHD to MP4 format requires more digging in the menus.
- No way to record video without having the LCD turned on, which kills battery time.
- Music video creation is also available just like on the camcorders. And like them, there is no way to save the music video, nor export it to PMB, which makes it useless unless you plug the camera on your TV.

What I would like to see in the next version:
- High-res 16x9 screen like on the TX7 (don't care if it's touchscreen or not)
- RAW support, or at the least NR and compression settings.
- A waterproof case
- A way to cancel long shot operations (10fps, pano, HHT modes) I don't even care if I lose the pictures. I just want to be able to grab a better one
- Removing that silly 30 minute limit (on non-EU territories anyways) and adding a way to "plug" the unit and/or toggle power the LCD for long video shots.


Is it going to replace my XR500V? I'm still juggling with that idea. I would take a PQ hit in low-light, but the photo features and amazing convenience of having it in my pocket all the time are making me doubt I'll be using my XR500V much in the future.

Something's sure, just the fact that I'm considering replacing the use of a camcorder that I paid $1300 a year ago with a $300 P&S is saying a lot about it. It's not perfect, but from what I've used it for so far, it will definitely fill the void I had and then some.

I'll post some clips and photos soon if there's an interest.

Price has changed since I did my preorder. I did pay about $320 myself. Not sure what the deal is, but I'm sure it'll come down again in a few weeks.

Actually, I don't even need to do your test as I can confirm that there is distortion on sources that are too near the mic (aka me talking too loud near the mic was enough to get it distorted). I do have some footage of pretty loud environmental sound (aka in a train/subway), which was not distorted though, so I gather it needs to be really loud and the source may need to be near the camera to get the distortion. I suspect the AGC algorithm is probably at fault here and since there is no manual gain control nor audio input, there's probably no solution to this for either Sony units.

FWIW, I personally wasn't all that impressed by the Panny ZS3's audio quality either. If audio quality is important in your case, you might want to go with a separate unit to record audio and mix afterwards (a unit like this would do the trick: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...-Cat83&topnav=).

720p isn't the only thing that bothered me with the ZS3 video feature:
- 30p only support (as opposed to the "60p video support" they advertise on their packaging)
- Low-light was noisy and colors were grey/dull.
- OIS was ok, but much worse compared to what the XR500V and now the HX5V have.
- CCD light streaking on spotlights (CMOS comes with its own can of worms, but it doesn't have this issue).

IMO, having tried both, I feel the HX5V is a much better video recording device for my needs. But I'm not recording concerts, so the audio problem we both experienced isn't a deal breaker to me as it is to you.

A couple of full reviews for the HX5V:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/HX5V/HX5VA.HTM
http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Cyber-shot_DSC_HX5/

Another couple of HX5V review:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/digita...hot-DSC-HX5/p1
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dsc_hx5v-review

I took the time to make comparative shots between the HX5V, the Zi8 and my XR500V that you can find here:

HX5V vs Zi8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P58UHsXcKJo&fmt=37
HX5V vs XR500V: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgkO-EPljTo&fmt=37

I put my postings of the HX5V vs Zi8 on this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post18496916

As for the XR500V vs HX5V, here are my personal comments:
- The HX5V is pretty mediocre in low-light and can't compare to the f/1.8 lens of the XR500V.
- The AWB is more accurate in low-light on the XR500V. The HX5V seems to have a bluish tint on cloudy natural light, and yellowish tint in artificial light.
- In mixed light, the HX5V colors aren't as saturated in the low-light parts (see burgandy colored sofa in the middle of the shot), but the high-light components are comparable. At the start of that scene, you can actually see the "auto backlit compensation" feature of the XR500V in action, which the HX5V lacks.
- When used at the same zoom level, the Active OIS behaves EXACTLY the same way on all the shots. When the two scenes are perfectly aligned and the units are hand-held, they litterally in sync, which pretty much means that both optical and software components of the stabilization are equivalent.
- Because the HX5V has a wider angle lens, full wide shots are looking actually more stable (wide lens do that).

So, in conclusion: IMO, the HX5V doesn't replace a high-end camcorder, especially for low-light shoots. But it does come pretty close to the same results in high-light settings for a $300 pocketable P&S.

The HX5 and TX7 share the exact same feature set, chipset and sensor.

The HX5 adds:
- GPS
- Better lens and zoom range
- Active OIS (the TX7 stabilization isn't Active)

The TX7 has:
- Better LCD
- Touchscreen LCD
- Slimmer
- A Sony underwater case accessory

They both share the same Exmor R CMOS sensor technology as well as the same generation of BIONZ proc, so I wouldn't expect any difference between the two devices. Note that all current CMOS video recording devices, including $5000 ones, have to some degree a rolling shutter issue, because of the CMOS technology.

That being said, I just tried to repro it on both unit by jerking my camera left and right like the guy did (which isn't easy to do by the way) and couldn't see a significant one in 60i AVCHD, but could see a small rolling shutter artifact in MP4 1080p30 mode, which I suspect the youtube poster did. Note that I also had to turn off Active OIS in my tests because the software component of the stabilization seems to reduce the wobble effect. Unfortunately, the XR500V doesn't support 30p, so my answer is that if the XR500 has a rolling shutter, I'm not really seeing it. It's probably worth noting too that I haven't experienced a rolling shutter artifact over the last month of heavy use with the HX5V, but I guess I'm shooting mostly in 60i with Active OIS on, and I sure don't jerk my camera left and right repeatedly when I try to record footage I'm planning to watch in the future

With the CX550V/XR550V, you're getting:
1. Better lens (f/1.8 vs f/3.5)
2. Because of #1, much better low-lights
3. Better audio + DD5.1
4. Better Active OIS (barrel movement compensation)
5. Integrated big 240GB HDD on the XR or internal flash 64GB on the CX
6. Bigger and better swivel LCD display + touch screen
7. Viewfinder
8. Auto backlit compensation
9. Audio inputs + outputs
10. Better settings controls (though not much better)
11. GPS map view
12. Better ergonomics for shooting video
13. 24Mbps max encoding

And I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. There are plenty of good reasons to get the CX/XR series over the P&S HX5V if you're looking for a camcorder.

BUT, I have to say that the pricing of either the CX550V or XR550V aren't too appealing right now (aka near MSRP). In a couple of months, the price will go down a good $200, and possibly another $200 at the end of the summer. In comparison, the XR500V and CX500V are available at real bargain prices right now (you can get a new CX500V for $750 at good reputable retailers vs $1200 for a CX550V at the same place).

Also, unless you really need the extra features that the 550 series brings in, I would probably suggest grabbing a CX500V or XR500V instead.

If you're really into the 550 new features, you might want to consider the CX550V over the XR550V unless the 240GB is a requirement for you. The differences between the CX550 and XR550 are very small now that they added the audio inputs and the viewfinder, so there's very little gain to get the XR550 over the CX in my opinion.

All that being said, for $325, the HX5V records pretty nice videos, comparable IMO to the more expensive models for outdoor shots, and you can't beat the compactness of the unit. And, you could grab both a CX500V and a HX5V for cheaper than a CX550V right now.

Sony isn't known for firmwares, but you should contact them about the problem anyway.

I can't say I've experienced really that bad audio on my HX5V, but then again, I didn't try to record a concert either.

Don't expect a magic bullet in low light from either P&S, their lenses (f/3.3-f/3.5) just isn't cut up to be competitive with high-end camcorders that have f1.8 lenses. I think you'll get better results than the H55, but I don't know if it'll be good enough for you.

I don't know too much about the ZS5, but it you can play with the HX5V at a store, make sure to try HHT mode in low-light (that mode rocks in low-light).

I'm not sure that comparison table is a good way to compare those models as there are some mistakes in them.

Instead, I would recommend reading some of the reviews I listed above, which compares the HX5V with the ZS7 along with pros and cons of each unit. Here's one for example: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...HTM?r=59783883

From what I take the ZS7 has better photo PQ and still sharpness, while the HX5V captures better videos.