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* Official * Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 Ultra thread - Page 2

post #31 of 1608
3/18/10 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

Hi Shadow Lord,
I'll ask the team to replicate your very impressive setup to get to the bottom of this.

Tom
Cyberlink

Thanks Tom. Just to give you more info. I found an old copy of 9 (trial edition) and it ran fine. But 10 as soon as it is started throws up a dialog box that says "PowerDVD is not optimized for this resolution and will now exit". You can PM through this site if the support people need me to test a patch or update out.
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post #32 of 1608
3/18/10 at 12:00pm
does the trial give you full support for blu-ray and mkv films,or do they leave something out untill you buy the full version,thankyou
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post #33 of 1608
3/18/10 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

Our engineers implemented MKV support according to the specification...
http://matroska.org/technical/specs/codecid/index.html

DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD are not defined as valid audio codecs. This is a bit of a problem. We like to implement things according to industry specs so that we don't have to constantly adapt to every other implementer's guess as to how to define these codecs in the container. If anyone has any advice on how to determine this ad-hoc spec, please let me know.

That excuse does not explain non-support for FLAC and PCM (they are valid audio codecs) ... And TrueHD/DTS-HD/LPCM tracks in M2TS files are not supported either (core DD/DTS only) (Edit: this is not correct, TrueHD/DTS-HD/LPCM [subject to Windows Audio Engine] are supported; but you can't select an audio track, only the primary audio track is always played back).

I feel your engineers had only lossy compressed audio formats in mind in video file playback.

Well, the fact is fact whatever your engineers say. A user who wants to play a video file with HD audio track won't/can't use PowerDVD 10 anyway.
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post #34 of 1608
3/18/10 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

That excuse does not explain non-support for FLAC and PCM (they are valid audio codecs) ... And TrueHD/DTS-HD/LPCM tracks in M2TS files are not supported either (core DD/DTS only).

I feel your engineers had only lossy compressed audio formats in mind in video file playback.

Well, the fact is fact whatever your engineers say. A user who wants to play a video file with HD audio track won't/can't use PowerDVD 10 anyway.

Why is it that every release loses some piece of functionality that we care about? This isn't that hard. I sure hope slyplayer comes out - then we can get a product that is designed for what we want...
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post #35 of 1608
3/18/10 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Why is it that every release loses some piece of functionality that we care about? This isn't that hard. I sure hope slyplayer comes out - then we can get a product that is designed for what we want...

Well, I'll open the pandora's box...

I'm still a lil unsettled as to why Cyberlink is even here, on this forum in the first place. Is it to get input from the "enthusiasts"? Is it to promote PDVD better? Is it to address some of the concerns that this community has with PDVD?

And the reason, I'm unsettled is (btw, don't get me wrong, I highly respect companies when they try to reach out to their users in more ways than one), is because, there's very little that seems to have changed in the product, that WE would want. Now, of course "we" are a minority, and obviously quite picky about things. However, "we" can't be the ones driving Cyberlink's sales, it's gotta be the masses. And, yet they are here.

Ok, I agree I'm in a cynical mood right now, but I still question what they are doing here.
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post #36 of 1608
3/18/10 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

I'm still a lil unsettled as to why Cyberlink is even here, on this forum in the first place. Is it to get input from the "enthusiasts"? Is it to promote PDVD better? Is it to address some of the concerns that this community has with PDVD?

And the reason, I'm unsettled is (btw, don't get me wrong, I highly respect companies when they try to reach out to their users in more ways than one), is because, there's very little that seems to have changed in the product, that WE would want. Now, of course "we" are a minority, and obviously quite picky about things. However, "we" can't be the ones driving Cyberlink's sales, it's gotta be the masses. And, yet they are here.

I'm here because I'm an audio and video enthusiast. I'm an engineer who has been in this business for more than 20 years. Like everyone else here, I like a killer home theater setup. So I come here for the same reason everyone else does, to learn more about the latest technologies and techniques for achieving home theater nirvana.

I am proud to work for one of the leading world's leading developers of multimedia software. I am constantly impressed by the innovation and technical expertise of my engineering colleagues. It's disheartening to read speculative opinions from people who have no familiarity with the company or our products or capabilities, so it just makes sense to show up and set the record straight on occasion. I come to the party armed with facts and industry insight, which shouldn't bother anyone, I hope.

I admit that I'm a bit of an outsider, in that I don't go through the hassle of ripping my Blu-ray discs to an online media server. I just don't have the time. I do have all of my personal media online, and I'm an avid videographer and photographer.

It's true that the majority of revenues comes from the mainstream consumer, versus the high-end customer. But the high-end consumers are first to test any new technology, and they are better equipped to fully test every feature. Plus, we get valuable feedback from our knowledgeable high-end customers that we would never get from mainstream customers.

Anyhow... it's 2010. Any smart company is showing up and engaging directly with their most passionate audience. Web 2.0 and all of that...

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #37 of 1608
3/18/10 at 4:28pm
We like having you here, Tom. At least I appreciate you taking the time to come here and put up with us. We can be a difficult crowd...there's no denying that. So a hearty thanks from me for the effort!
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post #38 of 1608
3/18/10 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

Our engineers implemented MKV support according to the specification...
http://matroska.org/technical/specs/codecid/index.html

DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD are not defined as valid audio codecs. This is a bit of a problem. We like to implement things according to industry specs so that we don't have to constantly adapt to every other implementer's guess as to how to define these codecs in the container. If anyone has any advice on how to determine this ad-hoc spec, please let me know.

Tom
Cyberlink

Why not use the Windows 7 spec for IEC 61937 ? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...61(VS.85).aspx
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post #39 of 1608
3/18/10 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

That excuse does not explain non-support for FLAC and PCM (they are valid audio codecs) ... And TrueHD/DTS-HD/LPCM tracks in M2TS files are not supported either (core DD/DTS only).

I feel your engineers had only lossy compressed audio formats in mind in video file playback.

or maybe their LEGAL department had only lossy formats in mind since they answer to a higher authority. i realize its more of the kind of speculation Tom warns about (and its great that he's here, BTW - I'm all ears to switching from Arcsoft TMT3 if I find a better experience in PDVD) but let's face it, MKV has historically been frowned upon commercially since its the defacto container for illegal online file sharing and i wouldn't be surprised if that's still a silent factor here.

amusing since while the cat's long been out of the bag with AACS broken, there's still a peculiar paranoia about the HD audio tracks- like the one last toy in the child's hands it won't let go of, and they'll be damned if people are allowed to bitstream from anything but BD folder structure "as god intended". /rant
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post #40 of 1608
3/18/10 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Well, I'll open the pandora's box...

I'm still a lil unsettled as to why Cyberlink is even here, on this forum in the first place. Is it to get input from the "enthusiasts"? Is it to promote PDVD better? Is it to address some of the concerns that this community has with PDVD?

And the reason, I'm unsettled is (btw, don't get me wrong, I highly respect companies when they try to reach out to their users in more ways than one), is because, there's very little that seems to have changed in the product, that WE would want. Now, of course "we" are a minority, and obviously quite picky about things. However, "we" can't be the ones driving Cyberlink's sales, it's gotta be the masses. And, yet they are here.

Ok, I agree I'm in a cynical mood right now, but I still question what they are doing here.

+1. I'm "unsettled" too somehow by a company representative being an OP for their own product. In my opinion this should be an initiative coming from the community properly. Otherwise for example Jason from Arcsoft or Jim Hillegass from J. River could be allowed posting threads about their new versions of TMT or JRMC. If it's not "improper", it's certainly "weird". And it could amount of course to plain product self promotion, which is not the case here, I hope ...
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post #41 of 1608
3/18/10 at 5:22pm
I still don't understand why the studios wasted all these resources to "protect" audio, even when it's lossless. The number of people who pirate movie soundtracks has to be less than negligible. No other explanation than paranoia (well, maybe just plain malice) comes to mind. Because of that, we get a crappy unreliable audio standard (HDMI). Another cable for audio wouldn't have been too bad either, would allow more easily to do just-audio connections, like many people ask routinely if they can with HDMI (I don't think they can).
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post #42 of 1608
3/18/10 at 5:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

That excuse does not explain non-support for FLAC and PCM (they are valid audio codecs) ... And TrueHD/DTS-HD/LPCM tracks in M2TS files are not supported either (core DD/DTS only).

I feel your engineers had only lossy compressed audio formats in mind in video file playback.

Well, the fact is fact whatever your engineers say. A user who wants to play a video file with HD audio track won't/can't use PowerDVD 10 anyway.

To be clear, engineers don't write the product requirements; product managers do... although the engineers get a lot of input, and tell the product managers what is possible, or practical. To win support for a new feature someone has to make a good business case. I bring requests from the enthusiast community here at AV Science Forum to the product managers, and they get considered along with all of the other requested features / ideas from our big customers (PC manufacturers), strategic partners (chip companies), and other stakeholders. We do as much as we can as fast as we can... but we have to prioritize. We've moved PowerDVD in the direction of being more of a Universal Media Player, which should align with the interests of the home theater PC enthusiast crowd.

Obviously, another big focus for PowerDVD 10 is 3D. Reasonable people can disagree on the value of 3D... but we think that it will be important to support, and ultimately a very popular feature. If you haven't yet seen full quality 3D on a PC, you will at some point in the near future, and you can form your own opinions. I think that it's a very compelling experience, and I think that a large percentage of people will want to watch certain kinds of movies in 3D.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #43 of 1608
3/18/10 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post

Thanks Tom. Just to give you more info. I found an old copy of 9 (trial edition) and it ran fine. But 10 as soon as it is started throws up a dialog box that says "PowerDVD is not optimized for this resolution and will now exit". You can PM through this site if the support people need me to test a patch or update out.

Our engineers attempted to replicate the issue but were unsuccessful yesterday. They're still working on it.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #44 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

+1. I'm "unsettled" too somehow by a company representative being an OP for their own product. In my opinion this should be an initiative coming from the community properly. Otherwise for example Jason from Arcsoft or Jim Hillegass from J. River could be allowed posting threads about their new versions of TMT or JRMC. If it's not "improper", it's certainly "weird". And it could amount of course to plain product self promotion, which is not the case here, I hope ...

et tu Tulli?

I thought that the crowd here would appreciate the ability to get information straight from the source. In fact, many have expressed this sentiment.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #45 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:11pm
I for one, really appreciate having a software company's rep here to look into issues.

the issue i'm having with 10.0 is that i have a 50/50 chance of an mkv file causing a ctd when it is selected in the main window of pdvd. it doesnt even have to launch; just single clicking on an mkv file will cause it...
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post #46 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

et tu Tulli?

I thought that the crowd here would appreciate the ability to get information straight from the source. In fact, many have expressed this sentiment.

Tom
Cyberlink

Of course I do, Tom, and thank you for it .
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post #47 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:24pm
I think it's fair to mention that Tom didn't appear around these lairs to promote PowerDVD, but to try and work out a solution for the very bad problems the initial build of PowerDVD 9 was having.

Also, don't shoot the messenger and all that.

So Tom, don't take it personally, but when most of us seem very cynical about what CL does is because we've been using PowerDVD for years, since 7.3 or before.
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post #48 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Why not use the Windows 7 spec for IEC 61937 ? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...61(VS.85).aspx

I'll ask our engineers. The real question is "how does the software you are using to create your MKV file define the audio in the MKV?" We would want to double-check that. If any of you have a tool to peek at the structure of your MKV files, we'd welcome the feedback.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #49 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post


Obviously, another big focus for PowerDVD 10 is 3D. Reasonable people can disagree on the value of 3D... but we think that it will be important to support, and ultimately a very popular feature. If you haven't yet seen full quality 3D on a PC, you will at some point in the near future, and you can form your own opinions. I think that it's a very compelling experience, and I think that a large percentage of people will want to watch certain kinds of movies in 3D.

i see what u did there. wink wink, nudge nudge

to me 3D has become so trendy so fast that i term it "the emperor's new 3d goggles". let's face it the last 15-20 years has seen a few different pushes toward 3d and each time it flopped; now Avatar has reawakened the novelty factor and to a whole new frenzied level and maybe pushed it over the hill; yes, tech has improved but like times past the hype is overshadowing content. So you get that $3000 panasonic 3Dtv home, now what? Let's see:

- DirecTV announced >one< whole 3D channel but no ETA
- 3D Blurays won't be out until the end of the year, and even Avatar itself will only be released in 2D initially.

So not a whole lot of stuff for the new 3DTV to do for a long time except depreciate and watch newer models come out. That said, I guess every company suddenly wants to be able to say they support it, so can't fault CL there.
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post #50 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

I'll ask our engineers. The real question is "how does the software you are using to create your MKV file define the audio in the MKV?" We would want to double-check that. If any of you have a tool to peek at the structure of your MKV files, we'd welcome the feedback.

Tom
Cyberlink

Tom you can check out MKVtoolnix which is a GUI front-end to mkvmerge, a popular tool to analyze and manipulate MKV's with.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MKVtoolnix

The MKV container is very viable from both efficiency and "openness" standpoints. To my mind .MKV is the ".MP3" of the video world. When I buy a Bluray disc, I'll rip it to my media server, toss the original in a box in the garage, keep the main movie and remove extra audio tracks (foreign languages) I don't need, and the final file is an MKV which takes up way less space with less overhead than BD/M2TS structure, and plays back beautifully. I know I'm not alone in this workflow and once PDVD supports the HD audio tracks in MKV, consider me a customer.
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post #51 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

i see what u did there. wink wink, nudge nudge
.

Literally laughing out loud!!

Say no MORE!

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post #52 of 1608
3/18/10 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

It's true that the majority of revenues comes from the mainstream consumer, versus the high-end customer. But the high-end consumers are first to test any new technology, and they are better equipped to fully test every feature. Plus, we get valuable feedback from our knowledgeable high-end customers that we would never get from mainstream customers.
Tom
Cyberlink

Tom, I certainly appreciate your prescence per se, and please don't take me the wrong way, it's not YOU personally, that I'm unsettled over.

My problem, is the above sounding statements. Sure, you'll get a fair amount of quality (and fairly picky/technical/etc etc) feedback, but then............what? This is not the first time a company has decided to take "enthusiast" input, but what saddens me, is that very little comes out of it. We see VERY little, if any changes to the future product versions.

And as I said, I apologize for being cynical, I guess I'm just a lil jaded.. If Microsoft ever came in here...man would I give them a hard time. Most of my statements to them would start with "WTF were you thinking, when....."
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post #53 of 1608
3/18/10 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Tom, I certainly appreciate your prescence per se, and please don't take me the wrong way, it's not YOU personally, that I'm unsettled over.

My problem, is the above sounding statements. Sure, you'll get a fair amount of quality (and fairly picky/technical/etc etc) feedback, but then............what? This is not the first time a company has decided to take "enthusiast" input, but what saddens me, is that very little comes out of it. We see VERY little, if any changes to the future product versions.

And as I said, I apologize for being cynical, I guess I'm just a lil jaded.. If Microsoft ever came in here...man would I give them a hard time. Most of my statements to them would start with "WTF were you thinking, when....."

I think it's fair to say that my participation here has resulted in certain features being given a higher priority in our development efforts, including HDMI bitstreaming and support for MKV container files. In fact, I've worked directly with many of the frequent AVSForum contributors as we jointly resolved open issues. The feedback from this community is very valuable to us. Well... most of it.

Oddly enough, it was a guy from Microsoft that encouraged me to participate here. You might be surprised who hangs out here. Not everyone is authorized to identify themselves as a company representative.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #54 of 1608
3/18/10 at 7:34pm
Nice to get the info directly from the source so I welcome Tom's presence here. I saw my first 3D display today at a Best Buy in Yuma, AZ (I'm an east coaster out on business) and it looked interesting but nothing I feel I'd have to have. It's a new gadget directed at a niche market but definitely not something I think the mainstream consumer market is ready to embrace en masse.

FWIW, any playback software that supports Blu-Ray but omits support for DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD is a complete waste of my time and money. Sorry, but you're completely missing the boat here. I feel that support for these audio formats far outweighs support for a format that won't saturate the market for years to come is extremely shortsighted. It appears that you've abandoned a market that is here and now for a pig in a poke.

Until you've changed your product to something I'd actually use I'll stick with TMT for my playback chores. Consider this direct feedback from the end user.
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post #55 of 1608
3/18/10 at 7:38pm
Downloading the trial version now. Slowly.
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post #56 of 1608
3/18/10 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

FWIW, any playback software that supports Blu-Ray but omits support for DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD is a complete waste of my time and money. Sorry, but you're completely missing the boat here. I feel that support for these audio formats far outweighs support for a format that won't saturate the market for years to come is extremely shortsighted. It appears that you've abandoned a market that is here and now for a pig in a poke.

Until you've changed your product to something I'd actually use I'll stick with TMT for my playback chores. Consider this direct feedback from the end user.

Woa woa woa. HUH?? It supports those formats just FINE for blu-ray! The lack of support is in MKV, and they never claimed to support it. We were simply asking and hoping. Let's not misinterpret things here.
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post #57 of 1608
3/18/10 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

Well... most of it.
Oddly enough, it was a guy from Microsoft that encouraged me to participate here. You might be surprised who hangs out here. Not everyone is authorized to identify themselves as a company representative.

Tom
Cyberlink

Yeah..yeah...I get it. I'll shut my trap now. Welcome to the forum btw.

As far as Microsoft goes...trust me, I'm VERY aware of how things work, and what they (or anyone else for that matter) can and cannot say. That said, I still wanna beat them up.. WTF were they thinking when....
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post #58 of 1608
3/18/10 at 8:16pm
I've been very vocal about my dislikes of the Cyberlink product, however the fact they now seem to have a representative of the company posting here does show an effort to improve the product and perhaps show focus towards meeting the needs of the typical HTPC user, something IMO that was sorely lacking in the past.

Mike
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post #59 of 1608
3/18/10 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

I'll ask our engineers. The real question is "how does the software you are using to create your MKV file define the audio in the MKV?" We would want to double-check that. If any of you have a tool to peek at the structure of your MKV files, we'd welcome the feedback.

Tom
Cyberlink

I don't actually have any MKVs so I can't help there, sorry. I have no idea what they use for the codec IDs.
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post #60 of 1608
3/18/10 at 9:09pm
Well, there sure are a lot of mad people with DVDO in the video processor forum because they stop communicating directly. Also over the years I've seen plenty of people in other sections complain about the same thing. So I don't see anything negative about Cyberlink being here. But it is true sometime it seems like companies only show up for something new then later disappear.

Anyway, so has anyone reading this Thread tried PWDVd 10 using one of the Intel Clarkdale type of mother boards? Just wondering if I got some kind of crazy conflict on my PC causing the video to black out on FF or RR. But it only does it with 10, not 9.
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