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* Official * Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 Ultra thread - Page 11

post #301 of 1608
3/27/10 at 1:51pm
If you're bitstreaming (i.e. "without decoding to LPCM") then I don't know why it wouldn't be possible. The problem has been that PowerDVD 9 (and some newer builds of 8, IIRC) didn't decode DTS-HD MA 7.1.

What would be interesting is if this is really true, running a test where it is known which sounds are coming from where. Unfortunately a true DTS-HD 7.1 discrete test is nonexistent (at least for us mere mortals) as far as I know. You can still try with a movie with distinct sounds (my DTS bluray demo disc has one or two clips where this happens), but I'm not sure if a classical music recording does this. Classical multichannel usually only includes ambient sounds in the surrounds.
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post #302 of 1608
3/27/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

If you're bitstreaming (i.e. "without decoding to LPCM") then I don't know why it wouldn't be possible. The problem has been that PowerDVD 9 (and some newer builds of 8, IIRC) didn't decode DTS-HD MA 7.1.

What would be interesting is if this is really true, running a test where it is known which sounds are coming from where. Unfortunately a true DTS-HD 7.1 discrete test is nonexistent (at least for us mere mortals) as far as I know. You can still try with a movie with distinct sounds (my DTS bluray demo disc has one or two clips where this happens), but I'm not sure if a classical music recording does this. Classical multichannel usually only includes ambient sounds in the surrounds.

Ah- ok- so Tom- can you chime in here related to DTS-HD MA 7.1?
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post #303 of 1608
3/27/10 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post


If you want the full list of current Blu-rays with 7.1 DTS-MA goto www.blu-raystats.com and use the filters. There looks to be about 130 discs, not all new movies.

Thanks
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post #304 of 1608
3/27/10 at 2:20pm
Is it possible to change the font size in mkv movies in Power DVD 10?

Is it at all possible to modify in any way the size of fonts in the played films?

Can anyone please help me.
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post #305 of 1608
3/27/10 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you select "PCM decoded by PowerDVD", then 7.1 DTS-HD MA is decoded to 7.1 LPCM and bitstreamed (e.g. Windows volume does not work), then AVR gets 7.1 LPCM. This is true for both PowerDVD 9 and 10.

Sorry if this noob question but where is this option? I have not come across this....
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post #306 of 1608
3/27/10 at 3:01pm
Simple question: Does PWDVD 10 play BD and DVD iso's with Anydvd HD enabled? And is there a noticeable difference in audio and video quality between version 9 and 10? (Besides 3D)
I have read all the posts but I have not seen conclusive answer by anyone that has installed v10.
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post #307 of 1608
3/27/10 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer1977 View Post

Simple question: Does PWDVD 10 play BD and DVD iso's with Anydvd HD enabled? And is there a noticeable difference in audio and video quality between version 9 and 10? (Besides 3D)
I have read all the posts but I have not seen conclusive answer by anyone that has installed v10.

yes they work fine in PDVD 10. i really like the picture quality in 10 but i cant tell if its any better than in 9
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post #308 of 1608
3/27/10 at 4:35pm
Thank you. I would love here from other users as well.
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post #309 of 1608
3/27/10 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

yes they work fine in PDVD 10. i really like the picture quality in 10 but i cant tell if its any better than in 9

Is the 7MC integration any different in 10?
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post #310 of 1608
3/27/10 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post

Is the 7MC integration any different in 10?

i dont know. i dont have 7 and i never use wmc...
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post #311 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:00pm
My previous post was wrong. PowerDVD 10 has a serious bug: 7.1 DTS-HD MA/HRA is downmixed to 5.1; precisely, left/right surround back is mapped to left/right surround side, so that you won't hear sounds from the surround back speakers (unless you use DPLIIx etc.). On the other hand, 7.1 DTS-HD MA/HRA bitstreaming works just fine.

DTS-HD MA/HRA 7.1 Decoded to LPCM: Bistreamd as 5.1 LPCM

DTS-HD MA/HRA 7.1 Bistreaming: Good

On the other hand PowerDVD 8 (Build 2217U) and PowerDVD 9 (Build 2528) have no bug on 7.1 DTS-HD at all. I used the file test_7.1_dts-hd_hr.iso posted by Browncoat (perhaps) at Doom9's Forum to test channel mapping. This is 7.1 DTS-HD HRA, but I assume the same result for 7.1 DTS-HD MA (it looks like the file was obtained from a Japanese BD test disc; I will try to find a MA version).

In summary:
DTS-HD HRA 7.1 Bitstreaming Channel Count Surround Side Surround Back Full Resolution? Bitstreamed?
PowerDVD 10 Yes 5.1 SS+SB – Yes Yes
PowerDVD 9 Yes 7.1 SS SB Yes Yes
PowerDVD 8 No 7.1 SS SB No No
Here, all the entries in the first row except for "Bitstreaming" are about the PCM decoded by PowerDVD.

- "Channel Count": The number of channels in the decoded PCM
- "SS": Surround Side
- "SB": Surround Back
- "Full Resolution?": = Non-downsampled?
- "Bitstreamed?": Sent as a special media type for the decoded PCM so that Windows OS can't modify it?
LL
LL
LL
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post #312 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:07pm
Their decoder doesn't support decoding DTS-HD MA 7.1 as 7.1, so, this is unsurprising. The channel mapping is a bit annoying, but, I'd be willing to bet it's not using exclusive mode and passing it through Windows Audio which is causing that issue. Using ReClock would likely solve the channel mapping issue, but, at the cost of having the decoded audio be downsampled. In short, yea, don't do that.
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post #313 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:11pm
If it was the mixer causing the "bug", it would be the reverse though. The sides would go to the backs. Any player that sends 5.1 audio to the mixer will have its sides mapped to the backs if the mixer is set to 7.1, so I think it is using exclusive, or it's sending 7.1 with two silent channels.

But, if I'm getting renethx correctly, 7.1 DTS MA does work in PowerDVD 9, but not 10, as per his post in the last page?
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post #314 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:19pm
PowerDVD 8.0.2217 is the last one I used, and DTS MA 7.1 seemed to be working all right as pointed out in renethx's edit. IIRC some newer builds mucked it up, as did earlier builds of 9, but I had other problems with 2217a and newer so I didn't even test this.
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post #315 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:25pm
As PowerDVD 9 is fine for 7.1 DTS-HD in every respect, fixing the bug in PowerDVD 10 should be easy, I guess.
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post #316 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:33pm
Thread Starter 
I'll ask our engineers to take a look at this. Thanks for the detailed feedback renethx.

Tom
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post #317 of 1608
3/28/10 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

If it was the mixer causing the "bug", it would be the reverse though. The sides would go to the backs. Any player that sends 5.1 audio to the mixer will have its sides mapped to the backs if the mixer is set to 7.1, so I think it is using exclusive, or it's sending 7.1 with two silent channels.

But, if I'm getting renethx correctly, 7.1 DTS MA does work in PowerDVD 9, but not 10, as per his post in the last page?

Ah, yea, you're right. I read that wrong. Hmm, that's whacked. I have PDVD9 and bitstream with it so I've not seen this issue regardless.
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post #318 of 1608
3/28/10 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

I'll ask our engineers to take a look at this. Thanks for the detailed feedback renethx.

Tom

Couldn't ask the engineers to look for the missing 2 channels for those of us not bitstreaming while you're at it could you?

I know a cheeky request, but some clarification from Cyberlink on the status of DTS-HD MA 7.1 for those of us not using bitstreaming but on-board 7.1 soundcards like the Realtek ALC885 would be appreciated . I.E is this still limited to 5.1 channel in PowerDVD 10 and if so are Cyberlink planning to bump it up to 7.1 in the future?
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post #319 of 1608
3/28/10 at 5:16pm
That's what Tom will ask them to look at, bitstreaming doesn't have such a problem.
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post #320 of 1608
3/29/10 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

On the other hand PowerDVD 8 (Build 2217U) and PowerDVD 9 (Build 2528) have no bug on 7.1 DTS-HD at all. I used the file test_7.1_dts-hd_hr.iso posted by Browncoat (perhaps) at Doom9's Forum to test channel mapping. This is 7.1 DTS-HD HRA, but I assume the same result for 7.1 DTS-HD MA (it looks like the file was obtained from a Japanese BD test disc; I will try to find a MA version).

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

As PowerDVD 9 is fine for 7.1 DTS-HD in every respect, fixing the bug in PowerDVD 10 should be easy, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

That's what Tom will ask them to look at, bitstreaming doesn't have such a problem.

Ok, now I am really confused. I have never been able to get DTS-HD MA 7.1 to work through any of the 7.1 non bitstreaming soundcards I have had, with any previous version of PowerDVD (8 & 9). I also thought this was not a bug but a well know feature omission by Cyerberlink.

Now 7.1 did work for a while with PowerDVD 8, but in reading the forums I though that this was a bug and not true 7.1 as it was just repeating the side surround output to the back surround speakers. So when the bug was fixed in a patch, lots of people complained that they had lost 7.1, but they did not have it in the first place.

So please if I am missing soemthing please tell me what things I have to tick where in PowerDVD 9 to get 7.1 DTS-HD MA.
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post #321 of 1608
3/29/10 at 4:57am
I tested only with Radeon HD 5xxx. If you use a graphics card or a sound card that does not support PAP, the result could be different...
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post #322 of 1608
3/29/10 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested only with Radeon HD 5xxx. If you use a graphics card or a sound card that does not support PAP, the result could be different...

Ok, that makes some sense now. I have a soundcard that supports PAP. But all I belive that changes is whether the sound quality is put down to 16bit/48khz or not. I don't think it will affect the number of channels that the PowerDVD decoder should output.

The difference seems to be you have a AV device / Amplifer to do the sound decoding where as with just a dumb PAP soundcard I have to rely on PowerDVD to decode the sound and send it to the right speaker output.

But I think we are confusing ourselves in this forum. What we need is clarification from the source.

Tom, can you confirm that you will, at somepoint, get together with your internal people, engineers etc. And then give us an offical Cyberlink view on when DTS-HD 7.1 MA should and should not work in PowerDVD. That should put the confusion to rest.

I.E does it only work when using a Radeon 5xxx or Auzentech cards (using an external amp to decode the sound) or should it work using the internal PowerDVD audio decoder to on-board soundcards as well.
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post #323 of 1608
3/29/10 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
The issue reported by renethx is being investigated, to see if we find the same result with our test setups.

As many of you noted, PowerDVD Ultra decodes DTS-MA to 5.1 discrete channels. On a 7.1 channel audio system the discrete audio encoded for the side channels would not be decoded. Of course, the left, right, center, rear and sub/LFE channels are still decoded.

Of course, PowerDVD is capable of extracting and passing the encoded audio from the Blu-ray disc directly over a protected audio path (HDMI 1.3 on supported hardware) to an A/V Receiver which can decode the full DTS 7.1. This is supported on ATI Radeon 5xxx series graphics and Intel Clarkdale /Arrandale systems, as well as Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD sound cards.

We understand that there are some customers who would like PowerDVD to decode the full DTS-MA 7.1 in software, passing the 7.1 channel LPCM to the audio chip/sound card. I'm discussing this question with our Product Managers. The challenge for us is in understanding the cost/benefit, versus other requested features. The cost is not insignificant (both direct and indirect costs), and it is hard to justify adding a significant cost to every copy if the % of customers wanting or needing this feature is very small (especially given the DTS-MA hardware decoding options). Of course, we strive to offer the best-in-class, so we will continue to investigate the issue, to see what makes sense, and what can be done.

So as not to clog up this thread... please send me a private message if you are one of our customers that feels that DTS-MA 7.1 channel software decoding is essential for your configuration. A quick description of your configuration (sound card / chipset, graphics card, AV Receiver or audio system) would be helpful.

Tom
Cyberlink
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post #324 of 1608
3/29/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek K. View Post

Tom,

Has the media center integration been improved at all in version 10?

Thanks!

Yea, I was wondering this too... A new version and this is about the only reason I would use it, is inside Media Center as a Blu-ray player.

I like the fact that it will be able to do blu-ray 3-D in time but, right now I am hoping that TMT follows suit.

I know it's old news and a dead format but, I tried PowerDVD 9 but, got a refund, no HD-DVD support. I know it's dead but, a lot of us still have discs and once you add back support you wont need to update it as no new movies are coming out on it. I did pay for one of those combo drives (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) and would expect to be able to use it.

TMT3 has better MC inergration, plays back HD-DVD and as good video if not better than PowerDVD.... So, I guess it's the one for me for now...
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post #325 of 1608
3/29/10 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post


Tom
Cyberlink

I can tell you right now.... I have an excellent (but older) Fosgate Preamp that has 7.1 analog in, and an excellent amp (Sunfire signature 200wx7) to drive my Axiom speakers. What I'd LOVE to do is to use my Delta 1010lt in the HTPC and use it's 7.1 analog out, instead of using the onboard SPDIF to the Fosgate. The Fosgate ofcourse does not have HDMI, but that doesn't make it a bad preamp..
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post #326 of 1608
3/29/10 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

So as not to clog up this thread... please send me a private message if you are one of our customers that feels that DTS-MA 7.1 channel software decoding is essential for your configuration. A quick description of your configuration (sound card / chipset, graphics card, AV Receiver or audio system) would be helpful.

Thanks Tom, you how have answered all my questions. Having someone from your company in this forum is great and a credit to Cyberlink.

I agree lets close this subject off until you see what the demand is like.

To that end, I would love that anybody who wants to show their interest in this feature, would register with this forum, so they can send you a private message. But this may not be practical. Is there another way non-forum members who happen across this thread can let you know of their interest and their spec?
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post #327 of 1608
3/29/10 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Thanks Tom, you how have answered all my questions. Having someone from your company in this forum is great and a credit to Cyberlink.

I agree lets close this subject off until you see what the demand is like.

To that end, I would love that anybody who wants to show their interest in this feature, would register with this forum, so they can send you a private message. But this may not be practical. Is there another way non-forum members who happen across this thread can let you know of their interest and their spec?

They can probably open an issue with support, but, I'm not sure if that's the proper way to go about it.
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post #328 of 1608
3/29/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberlinkUSA View Post

The issue reported by renethx is being investigated, to see if we find the same result with our test setups.

As many of you noted, PowerDVD Ultra decodes DTS-MA to 5.1 discrete channels. On a 7.1 channel audio system the discrete audio encoded for the side channels would not be decoded. Of course, the left, right, center, rear and sub/LFE channels are still decoded.

Of course, PowerDVD is capable of extracting and passing the encoded audio from the Blu-ray disc directly over a protected audio path (HDMI 1.3 on supported hardware) to an A/V Receiver which can decode the full DTS 7.1. This is supported on ATI Radeon 5xxx series graphics and Intel Clarkdale /Arrandale systems, as well as Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD sound cards.

We understand that there are some customers who would like PowerDVD to decode the full DTS-MA 7.1 in software, passing the 7.1 channel LPCM to the audio chip/sound card. I'm discussing this question with our Product Managers. The challenge for us is in understanding the cost/benefit, versus other requested features. The cost is not insignificant (both direct and indirect costs), and it is hard to justify adding a significant cost to every copy if the % of customers wanting or needing this feature is very small (especially given the DTS-MA hardware decoding options). Of course, we strive to offer the best-in-class, so we will continue to investigate the issue, to see what makes sense, and what can be done.

So as not to clog up this thread... please send me a private message if you are one of our customers that feels that DTS-MA 7.1 channel software decoding is essential for your configuration. A quick description of your configuration (sound card / chipset, graphics card, AV Receiver or audio system) would be helpful.

Tom
Cyberlink

Tom, can you outline what your test setup is like? What hardware/software, etc... It would help us help you if we knew what kinds of stuff you test with, as we can give you more feedback on other configurations that you may not test directly.
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post #329 of 1608
3/29/10 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Thanks Tom, you how have answered all my questions. Having someone from your company in this forum is great and a credit to Cyberlink.

I agree lets close this subject off until you see what the demand is like.

To that end, I would love that anybody who wants to show their interest in this feature, would register with this forum, so they can send you a private message. But this may not be practical. Is there another way non-forum members who happen across this thread can let you know of their interest and their spec?

I realize that everyone who might want this capability won't read my post and respond. I just want to get a general sense from the folks who frequent the AVS Forum, who are following this thread. We can extrapolate from there!

Thanks
Tom
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post #330 of 1608
3/29/10 at 5:13pm
Seems like a bug though, not an "unsupported feature". PowerDVD 9 as per renethx's post and at least the build of 8 that I used do decode 7.1 DTS MA. Furthermore, the downmixing of 7.1 to 5.1 is not done correctly, losing the original sides and mapping the backs to the sides.
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