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Official Sony KDL 32EX400 40EX400 46EX400 EX401 - Page 21

post #601 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post

Well i exchanged my one tv and now i got one that's back light is worse than my previous one ( this one is an AUO model, not sure what the last one was). I can't tell if the sides are okay yet, with the last tv i didn't notice the problem for a couple weeks. I'm never going to be happy am i? *quits watching tv and playing videogames and devotes life to catching rabbits...wild rabbits*

Why settle for the defects of LCDS and go plasma? Then you won't have any of this stuff to deal with. I happen to not have big issues with the sony, but seriously LCDs as a whole suffer backlight issues and viewing angles.
post #602 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinMan View Post

Why settle for the defects of LCDS and go plasma? Then you won't have any of this stuff to deal with. I happen to not have big issues with the sony, but seriously LCDs as a whole suffer backlight issues and viewing angles.

I gave this thought. Two things that are on my mind:

1) The small humming noise it makes: the tv is in my bedroom and my ears are hyper sensitive.

2) I read that the panasonic plasmas lose their brightness over time by a decent amount.

3) Ghosting problems when being used as a monitor

I am at my secondary wits end though with LCD tech.
post #603 of 770
Okay. Finally got a decent 40EX400 panel (are my standards possibly lowered simply by process of beat-down ). Anyway, I think I have a keeper.

Two 40EX400s arrived at the store late last evening, and the one I acquired (picked from the two available via coin flip) has a November 2010 manufacture date (sorry, I didn't get the manufacture date off the other two).

Also, I'm back to a Samsung panel (I think that is a good thing ... or the lesser of two evils??). The panel is listed in the service menu just as the first one I had:

LTY(Z)400HM01

but this time, these have changed:

Picture Quality = PQ1.004 (rather than PQ1.003 as it was for the first one)
Panel Info = MT0001.0020.0000?LT (rather than MT0001.0019.0000?LT as it was for the first one)

I also note that the firmware version is 1.513; the Sony support site lists 1.512 (06/25/2010) as the latest available for download. I haven't noticed anything apparent that might have changed or been added.

Thanks.
post #604 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post

I gave this thought. Two things that are on my mind:

1) The small humming noise it makes: the tv is in my bedroom and my ears are hyper sensitive.

2) I read that the panasonic plasmas lose their brightness over time by a decent amount.

3) Ghosting problems when being used as a monitor

I am at my secondary wits end though with LCD tech.

Plasma and LCD has it's advantages/disadvantages. For example, for a computer monitor LCDs are a better choice. for fast action such as movies/sports, or even TV a plasma is better. Plasmas are better with contrast/color and a realistic reproduction of content as they generate their own light like a CRT This means there is no backlight shining through to mess with things. As far as losing brightness, Plasma as a whole is rated for about 20 years before it is due to start fading. Keep in mind ALL flat panel tvs are lest reliable compared to CRTs as the tech is more complex and the quality control has gone down. Panasonic has been rated #1 in plasma manufacturing under pioneer, who no longer makes plasma TVs as far as I know.

I have a 42" Panasonic TV in the living room, that will be a year old the 24th of next month. I've had zero issues with it beyond having to have a couple boards replaced after 4 months. A common problem with all flat panels is power board issues chap caps blowing, etc. Since I had it fixed it's been fine. I installed the latest firmware and it's even seemed more stable since.

A disadvantage of forums is, People who are angry who just blow up and fail to think rationally, tend to make a problem look worse then it is. If you look at solid sources though, you'll find that just about all the big name companies have about the same number of problems. I would say from what I've seen samsung and LG may be a bit higher on complaints then the others. But I find sony and Panasonic to be the best rated over all. If you want Plasma, go panasonic, they've also bought kuro technology (however it's spelled) so it is rumored to start showing up in the 2011 Panasonic plasma TVs.

P.S. If you don't know what Kuro is, it's Pioneer's plasma technology that gave them their name in plasma technology. Hope this helps!
post #605 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post

I didnt' see anyone else respond to this yet but i need to search more. I got my tv about 28 days ago and only have 2 days to return it but i have the same problem, the left and right edge, and now the top too, all have a tiny strip that is brighter than the rest of the screen that can be seen during fast motion. And yes, now that i see it, i keep looking for it. Should i exchange? Are we....two.....defective tvs or is this just how the Bravias are?

Wow, I can't believe I stumbled upon this. My timing is impeccable! I've long since returned this TV, but was considering a 32" version of this TV and was skimming through the thread again. Crazy.

To answer your question though, I went through 3 of these sets, and they all had the same bright stripe on the right. After the third one, I decided to just upgrade to the EX500 since it had 120Hz and it had the nicer looking silver bar at the bottom. We've been absolutely thrilled with the 46EX500. Best I can tell, I don't see any bright stripe anywhere along the sides of this TV.
post #606 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcguru83 View Post

Wow, I can't believe I stumbled upon this. My timing is impeccable! I've long since returned this TV, but was considering a 32" version of this TV and was skimming through the thread again. Crazy.

To answer your question though, I went through 3 of these sets, and they all had the same bright stripe on the right. After the third one, I decided to just upgrade to the EX500 since it had 120Hz and it had the nicer looking silver bar at the bottom. We've been absolutely thrilled with the 46EX500. Best I can tell, I don't see any bright stripe anywhere along the sides of this TV.

So far i don't see the stripe...yet. Is it possible it occurs after warming up/being on for awhile? I didn't notice it on the last tv either until a couple of weeks after buying it, seemed to actually worsen too.
post #607 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post

I gave this thought. Two things that are on my mind:

1) The small humming noise it makes: the tv is in my bedroom and my ears are hyper sensitive.

2) I read that the panasonic plasmas lose their brightness over time by a decent amount.

3) Ghosting problems when being used as a monitor

I am at my secondary wits end though with LCD tech.

I haven't had any issues w/ my Sony, but the main TV in the living room is a Panasonic plasma, which will have its 4th birthday at the end of this month. It's a much better TV than any LCD I've ever seen. We've had no problems with it. I don't hear any humming, and my hearing is fairly good. In fact, when the house is quiet, I hear humming from the DVR, but nothing from the TV. We haven't lost any "brightness." I don't use it as a monitor, so I can't address rumor #3.

Kill da wabbit!

Doug
post #608 of 770
If i take back this tv, maybe i will end up getting a plasma or the EX500. This one is an AUO panel and it is picture quality PQ1.004 and am unsure what that means exactly :P Was Scatto's .003 inferior? Did they just go " well let's make it better?" and made the .004s? No stripe yet but i'm pretty sure my last one was a Samsung and had better back light uniformity. This AUO one is really bright overall.
post #609 of 770
Reading all these Sony PQ posts it sounds like it really is a crap shoot whether or not you're going to end up with a good panel. Makes me feel like one of the lucky ones. Or maybe it's just that the majority of ppl who end up in these threads are those seeking answers to problems.

We ordered our 46EX400 from BB in March and it was delivered a few days later. The picture is beautiful and my only complaint is the picture is too dark when the ambient sensor ir turned on. And the speakers are the worst ever.
post #610 of 770
Bought a LG 32LD400 on a bit of a whim Saturday at Best Buy for $350. For the price, I suppose it's a decent enough set, but I haven't been blown away by the PQ. Seems all the TV content I've looked at from an OTA antenna has an exceptional amount of noise and fuzziness to it.

I'm considering returning it and spending the extra $100 for a 32EX400. We have a 46EX500 in our living room that I absolutely love. Any thoughts on how the 32EX400 would compare? Should they be pretty similar?
post #611 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-s-f View Post


Advanced Settings:
Gamma: +2

White Balance:
R/Gain: -3
G/Gain: 0
B/Gain: -5
R/Bias: -3
G/Bias: 0
B/Bias: -5

Hi, could you tell me how can I get the advanced and white balance settings ??? I can't see them on my set.
post #612 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by moop View Post


ADVANCED SETTINGS
ACE OFF
Blcak Corr OFF
Gamma +1
Clear Whiyr LOW
Live Color OFF

WhiBal All Zeroes

Ambient Sensor ON

Hi, Could you tell me where can I find the advanced and white balance settings ?? I can't see them on my 46EX400...
post #613 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by warwulf View Post

Hi, Could you tell me where can I find the advanced and white balance settings ?? I can't see them on my 46EX400...

GO into the menu settings ( menu, settings) and scroll down past CineMotion to the next page of options. I think you can only change th em if it's on the "General" scene setting.
post #614 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLee View Post

Reading all these Sony PQ posts it sounds like it really is a crap shoot whether or not you're going to end up with a good panel. Makes me feel like one of the lucky ones. Or maybe it's just that the majority of ppl who end up in these threads are those seeking answers to problems.

We ordered our 46EX400 from BB in March and it was delivered a few days later. The picture is beautiful and my only complaint is the picture is too dark when the ambient sensor ir turned on. And the speakers are the worst ever.

Hey, I finally picked mine up a day before christmas. I also noticed the darkness but I had no idea it was caused by the ambient sensor. I haven't calibrated it yet but i tried fairchilds settings earlier tonight and didn't seen much difference between the default pq. I'll be burning a couple calibration dvd's probably over the weekend though.
post #615 of 770
When the picture looks too dark (probably watching in a dimly lit room) shine a flashlight on the ambient sensor in the lower left corner. The picture suddenly looks perfect. Unfortunately it looks better than when turning off the ambient sensor in the control panel, which makes the picture too bright. I use the power saving setting in the tools menu to control the brightness. Wish they'd make the sensor variable.

Pls let us know the results of your calibration when you get a chance. Thanks.
post #616 of 770
Sooo after looking at my exchanged Bravia some more:

Still no bright/blurry bars on the side.

This AUO panel has a much worse back light, i don't know the tech side that well, but it seems overly lit/bright, the blacks are worse than my previous panel that i exchanged and colors are over saturated, bright without being accurate on the same settings i had before.
post #617 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post

This AUO panel has a much worse back light, i don't know the tech side that well, but it seems overly lit/bright, the blacks are worse than my previous panel that i exchanged and colors are over saturated, bright without being accurate on the same settings I had before.

If you've read my posts, you've read that I'm now on my third 40EX400, two of which were Samsung panel-equipped (including the current one) and one was an AUO.**

The AUO I had actually required a variety of much greater deviations from default settings to get close to color accuracy. As an example, the Picture>Color setting had to be raised to Level 65 to achieve the approximate color of the two Samsungs set at Level 50 (default). Color on the AUO at Level 50 had the look of a hand-water-colored black & white photo (in other words, highly desaturated). So, while it seems we both had poorer performance with the AUO, yours was over-saturated and mine almost looked black & white (I think with our descriptions being so far at one end of the spectrum and the other, we can discount personal color preferences for the difference, unless one of us is color-blind ).

And though I was able to use very similar settings on both the Samsung panels, they are not identical, all of which reinforces the fact that color calibration cannot be expected to transfer from one set to the other despite being the same model from the same 'manufacturer' (or assembler of parts ).

---- Rants
** My third panel, while looking quite good in general still has more backlight inconsistency than I would like, but without much input to the contrary, it appears that this has to be endured. I really think that had my current 40EX400 been my original purchase, I would have attempted to return it in pursuit of more consistency. Since it's my third, well, I'm not taking any more chances on cutting my nose to spite my face.

I have quite a bit of experience with LCD panels as I do a lot of computer graphics and photographic work where quality monitors are important. I continued using CRTs well beyond what most people considered the CRTs expiration date, but I was not satisfied with LCD performance. After finally switching to LCDs, I have never compromised with the monitors, but I have never had the kinds of issues I have posted about here. I think this is partly attributable to the fact that fewer monitors are discussed as being suitable for critical work, and photographers generally know which ones / types to consider.

I certainly had no expectations of being able to compare the 40EX400 to critical-work LCD monitors, but I did have the expectation that backlight illumination across the screen, especially away from the edges (which are somewhat understandably more prone to backlight leakage) would be consistent.

The thing is, it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge panels based on the in-store floor models for lots of reasons, not least of which is the use by Sony (and others) of various panels within the same product line / model. And, notwithstanding the common-sense, general criticisms of online product reviews (both 'professional' and consumer-generated), those for HDTVs are not as helpful as they could be for the same reason (i.e., the review is more likely than not a description of a product that is not the same one you have, despite being sold as such).

** By the way, my opinion of the Ambient Sensor: I believe it is being utilized (and turned on by default) not because it is helpful in achieving the best viewing experience with a properly performing (and calibrated) LCD panel, but that it is Sony's attempt to mask the gross backlight inconsistencies that these panels may exhibit in low-light environments.
post #618 of 770
Interesting read, and especially your take on the ambient sensor. It's unfortunate that you've had such difficulty getting an acceptable screen. It makes me wonder if maybe mine might have some problems I'm just not aware of. I know what it's like (for example) being an audiophile and having to put up with what some people use as a sound system (like forcing cheap wine upon a connoisseur). Hopefully your situation is not one of simply having expensive tastes! One does have certain expectations when buying the Sony name.

BTW I'm not a graphics professional but having owned quite a few computer monitors I've found that for LCD's I tend to like Asus.
post #619 of 770
Is gaming mode necessary for consoles?(specifically PS3)? I don't have my sound system yet and I was wondering if there is any significant difference. I haven't noticed any yet(only playing heavy rain so far,which isn't really fast paced) but want to know if anybody else does. The sound is a big issue for me because the EQ can't be accessed in Game mode, and I've used a variation of fairchild's settings(thanks,man) that has given me much enjoyment.
post #620 of 770
I think there is some latency difference with the Game mode which might be really nice if you play first person shooters or other twitchy games. The difference might or might not be perceivable.

On my plasma I use game mode even though it has an overly saturated picture, primarily because I want the extra aggressive pixel orbiter feature to kick in. I fear IR/burn-in with plasma.
post #621 of 770
I finally got fed up with the PQ issues on my LG 32LD400 and returned it today for a 32EX400. The PQ on this TV is just phenomenal, but unfortunately I seem to be suffering from the severe ghosting issues that others have reported. I've played Forza 3 on my 22" Dell 2209WA and on the previous LG and never noticed even the slightest hint of ghosting. Heck, I don't think I had ever even consciously seen ghosting until tonight--it's pretty severe. I should note I am using Game-Standard mode.

Has there been any consensus on a good way to minimize or eliminate this? Or does it just come down to the panel lottery? My panel has the following details:

Panel: LTY(Z)320HM03
Picture Quality: PQ1.003
Panel Info: MT0001.0017.0000?LT
post #622 of 770
Oh no! the corner clouding just showed up on three corners And I was thinking I got a perfect screen, I wonder if i would have even noticed if I hadn't read all the posts and seen pictures on here about it.
post #623 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperr View Post
Is gaming mode necessary for consoles?(specifically PS3)?
On this TV it's actually not recommended. Why? One word -- colors. They're horribly oversaturated and bright in the game mode.
Cinema mode is the best one for all purposes, including games. And input lag, I didn't notice any difference between modes in that regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pcguru83 View Post
I've played Forza 3 on my 22" Dell 2209WA and on the previous LG and never noticed even the slightest hint of ghosting. Heck, I don't think I had ever even consciously seen ghosting until tonight--it's pretty severe. I should note I am using Game-Standard mode.
You mean ghosting from dark objects in dark scenes? I notice it too, it's pretty severe, as you wrote.
But it actually doesn't bother me much. Unfortunately, you can't eliminate or diminish it.
post #624 of 770
Well, I've decided--the TV is going back. I'm just not sure what I'm going to get to replace it yet. The ghosting on this set is just absolutely ridiculous. I was playing some more Forza 3 last night after ramping down the sharpness last night as suggested earlier in the thread and it didn't make any difference. Cars that were cutting in front of me look like shooting stars leaving trails behind them. Passing cones and markers at high speeds looks like one of those stylized auto art prints. It's insane. I don't think I've ever seen ghosting this pronounced on any LCD panel I've ever used.

It's really a shame too, because the picture quality of this TV is just amazing. We have a 46EX500 in the living room, and it's just spoiled me I guess. Not really sure what I'm going to do at this point, but I really can't spend any more (or very little more) than what I did for this Sony. I suppose I can always go back to the LG 32LD400 since it's a known quantity, but the blacks are pretty horrible on that set. At least it didn't look like a smeared color picture though when playing a game.

I've skimmed through this thread, but I can't get a good read. Is it worth trying the "panel lottery" with this TV to get one that doesn't experience the pronounced ghosting? If so, which panel is best in terms of ghosting (or lack thereof)?
post #625 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyest View Post
You mean ghosting from dark objects in dark scenes? I notice it too, it's pretty severe, as you wrote.
But it actually doesn't bother me much. Unfortunately, you can't eliminate or diminish it.
Yeah, I guess it might be only with dark areas. The place I first noticed it was on a red marker "cone" that had gotten knocked into the dark grey asphalt part of the track. When I came zooming by next time around, it left trails all the way behind it. That's when I first noticed ghosting was an issue, then I couldn't stop noticing it once I was looking for it.

But I'm not really sure I'd consider that a dark area or scene though. I've seen mostly white cars streak along in front of me just as bad as I have some of the darker colored cars.
post #626 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlefood View Post
GO into the menu settings ( menu, settings) and scroll down past CineMotion to the next page of options. I think you can only change th em if it's on the "General" scene setting.
Thanks!
post #627 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcguru83 View Post
Yeah, I guess it might be only with dark areas. The place I first noticed it was on a red marker "cone" that had gotten knocked into the dark grey asphalt part of the track. When I came zooming by next time around, it left trails all the way behind it. That's when I first noticed ghosting was an issue, then I couldn't stop noticing it once I was looking for it.

But I'm not really sure I'd consider that a dark area or scene though. I've seen mostly white cars streak along in front of me just as bad as I have some of the darker colored cars.
I can see a trail in white scenes like in the Mirror's Edge Game when you are waiting for loading...
post #628 of 770
Hey all you EX400 experts... I was testing one of these in store by viewing .jpg images off a USB drive. Mostly it was fine, very nice in fact. However something strange happened when I tested some scans of black and white print - the TV turned the white parts GREEN! It was repeatable - the same files all did this. Strange. Anyone ever notice this? Just curious.
post #629 of 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Likes_Games View Post

Hey all you EX400 experts... I was testing one of these in store by viewing .jpg images off a USB drive. Mostly it was fine, very nice in fact. However something strange happened when I tested some scans of black and white print - the TV turned the white parts GREEN! It was repeatable - the same files all did this. Strange. Anyone ever notice this? Just curious.

Without really commenting on the shortcomings of testing in-store and strictly focusing on the green:

- do you mean that there was an overall, green tint / cast or do you mean that it appears that the white portions of the image were replaced with green while everything else appeared neutral?

- how opaque or translucent was the green color?

- did you test the same files on another TV (another of the same model, another of a different model by Sony, another of a model from a different manufacturer)?

Ignoring the possibility that the hue, color gain and color bias settings were all being skewed to green , an off-the-cuff guess may be a sensitivity to the way the files were saved:

- what application did you use to save the files?

- did you save the files as JPGs via conversion from a different format (TIFF, mult-page TIFF, PSD, etc.)?

- did you save the files with a color management profile embedded?

- did you save the files with any other data embedded (thumbnail, EXIF, etc.)?

In my own experience, some of the photographic images I have created and viewed (both B&W and color) were scanned with a Canonscan 9000F in TIFF format, color corrected in Photoshop and saved as TIFF (including the layers), then saved as JPGs AFTER flattening the image. Everything using this work-flow has produced images that display very nicely on my EX400.

I will note, however, that on a couple of occasions when I immediately saved PSD files as JPGs without first flattening the images, the EX400 displayed multiple horizontal red lines evenly spaced from top to bottom of the images (approx. 3'' apart ... I didn't measure but I think that is about correct). Re-saving the files AFTER flattening allowed the TV to display the images correctly. This was repeatable (the incidents occurred on either my first or second EX400; I have not tested this on my current one yet.)

The horizontal red lines mentioned above did not appear when the files were viewed in ANY PC application that I use (on Linux or Windows) regardless of whether the images were flattened first or not. This is why my post leans toward the possibility that the Sony image handling engine is extremely fragile / unsophisticated and does not always handle JPG images the way most other applications do.

By the way, I apologize in advance for violating Occam's razor here.
post #630 of 770
Follow-up to JPG 'green' issue

I just tested various files using both the USB port on my EX400 and the USB port on my Blu-ray player (BDP-S570). I don't have time to do any real in-depth tests or even fully describe the depth to which I did test, but I can note that there are some odd incompatibilities:

- TIF files (containing layers) saved as progressive JPGs (via Photoshop, IrfanView, etc.) will display properly via the BD player but will not display if run from the EX400 port (the display shows a 'broken' icon and renames the file 'no.jpg').

- TIF files (containing layers) saved as standard JPGs (via Photoshop, IrfanView, etc.) will display properly via the BD player AND from the EX400 port.

- PSD files (containing layers) saved as either standard or progressive JPGs (via Photoshop, IrfanView, etc.) will display properly via the BD player AND from the EX400 port.

- TIF files (containing layers) saved as JPGs (given the above caveats) will display correctly from both devices whether manually flattened before saving or whether layers are merged during the saving process.

- Some PSD files (containing layers) saved as JPGs will display incorrectly from either device if not manually flattened before saving. The display anomalies include additional image elements (similar to the red lines described in my previous post) or improperly scaled images (e.g., the image continues beyond the bottom edge of the screen).

- Embedding an ICC profile (I only tested Adobe RGB) or thumbnail via Photoshop did not impact either device's ability to display any of the files.

None of the unexpected results occurred when viewing the files via PC applications.

Though I wasn't able to reproduce the green coloring you described (I didn't expect I could), I think the foregoing still suggests the sensitivity of the Sony JPG-rendering code to a variety of factors that may cause owners to scratch their heads as to why things work for some files and not others.

I demonstrated issues related to the 'save' process and type of original file, but there could be myriad other factors that one might stumble upon.

Aside from all that, a broken / defective floor model at the store is more likely than not a cause for a lot of anomalous behavior.
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