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3-D demonstration at Best Buy - initial thoughts - Page 3

post #61 of 113
the sammy display i saw had the tv "wall" behind the veiwer(me). i was like WTF. the guy jumped up and turned off about 15 sets behind me. whom ever set it up, or told someone to set up, didn't know what they were doing.
post #62 of 113
I've seen the demo in 4 different Best Buy stores, and they've all been set up in different ways. In one of the stores, the salesmen didn't even need for me to ask them to shut off the TVs facing the Samsung. They did it themselves. Generally speaking, this store has much more knowledgeable salesmen. I found out during one of the demos that the person in charge of the department goes to the university where I used to teach video production. It's a good school - and in this case it means better than average Best Buy employees.
post #63 of 113
The 3D displays really need to be in an area that isn't so "busy", so to speak. I'm talking about all the reflections and light sources all over the place.

I stood away from the people and just watched their reactions when they saw it and tried on the glasses. The thing is, this 55 incher was setup with two chairs in front of it. However the vast majority of people that put on the glasses were standing up, and were behind the chairs, and were viewing it at too high an angle. It looked pretty good when sitting in the chairs, cause your eyeballs are at the right height, but everybody that was seeing it was standing up. I don't think they got a good effect from it. Maybe they shouldn't have any chairs there, and instead have the TV up higher so the average persons eyeballs are at the correct level while standing up.

I can't wait to see one of these in the ideal viewing conditions so I can get an accurate opinion of the quality.
post #64 of 113
Let me start off by saying that I'm a 3D geek from way back. I've been shooting 3D photographs for 40+ years and did some experimental 3D video in college 30 years ago. Yes, it was 2 B & W cameras setup side by side recording onto 2 separate reel to reel video recorders which I had to sync up by clapping and counting to 10. Ah, the good ole' days.

I started looking for a new TV a month ago, not because my 22 year old 19" Panasonic CRT was bad, but because I thought it might be time for something a bit bigger.

When I went to my local Best Buy last week I was lucky enough to find a young man who spent nearly 2 hours showing me every set in the store. I hadn't even considered a 3D set because I assumed it was just some kind of gimmick.

However, when he asked if I'd like to see a demonstration I thought what the heck, why not. It was the 55" Samsung LED, and yes, it was facing a wall of TVs, but they were all turned off and the area was dimmed a bit.

I honestly didn't expect much, but WOW. I was immediately mesmerized with the animated 3D film. Unlike most of the old 1950s 3D flicks I'd seen, this was really good 3D. Not overly done, but very natural looking with smooth, fluid motion.

In fact, it was the kind of 3D that wasn't a distraction, but a nice addition to the visual experience. It wasn't perfect, I did see a few artifacts here and there, maybe it was ghosting, I'm not sure, but overall, it was a very impressive demo and I came away quite excited to see that 3D TV was indeed happening.

I'm sorry that Jmouse007's experience wasn't so good. It might have been improperly setup equipment, or it could be that he is more sensitive to the flickering LCD shutter glasses. This is obviously a new technology and it's entirely possible that some folks will have a negative reaction to the 3D processing. Not everybody likes roller coasters either. That doesn't mean roller coasters are bad, it just means that some folks don't like them.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this 3D process looks on a plasma.
post #65 of 113
I think I had a very similar reaction to the Samsung. The ghosting was a serious problem, though. The Panasonic plasma pretty much solved that problem for me. It's not completely free of it, but it's nothing compared to the Samsung. I think the Panasonic also has better black levels, richer contrast and creates a greater sense of depth.

I, too, am a long time fan of 3D, and I'm extremely excited about having 3D at home. A year ago, I didn't think there was any way we'd see this happening this quickly.
post #66 of 113
I stopped by our local Best Buy store in Kennesaw, Georgia yesterday.

After hunting down a BB rep for the Magnolia room ( 20 minutes & finally talking to the store manager)...
he took me to the Sammy that was in the main TV section.

Same problem as others, the setup was in the open area, bright overhead lighting and mult. TV's reflecting from behind into the screen.

Two chairs parked very close to the Sammy screen, much closer than you would sit at home.

The only video available was the cartoon demo that Sammy packages.
It's hard to tell if the colors are "true".

The animation was good, the set showed good 3D deep & detail.
There was a little smearing in the fast action sections, but overall,
it's an impressive display of the 3D possibilities.

They hadn't received the Panasonic 3D demo... so I'll check back in a week or two, and see if I can get a comparison between these two 3D TV's.

I will wait until I can review sports in 3D, before making a final decision.
post #67 of 113
My local BB now has both the Samsung and Panasonic 3D displays setup. I watched both for 15 mins. Both are impressive, but I noticed something very strange. There were flashes of light, almost like lightening. I thought this was due to the overhead lights when watching the Samsung out in the open, but the Panasonic located in the Magnolia section also had the same effect. Could this be s sync issue? Do the glasses reset or flash with a loss of IR or something?
post #68 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post

My local BB now has both the Samsung and Panasonic 3D displays setup. I watched both for 15 mins. Both are impressive, but I noticed something very strange. There were flashes of light, almost like lightening. I thought this was due to the overhead lights when watching the Samsung out in the open, but the Panasonic located in the Magnolia section also had the same effect. Could this be s sync issue? Do the glasses reset or flash with a loss of IR or something?

I'm not sure my experience is the same as yours, but I believe I may have experienced something similar. I think it may be caused by the viewing environment. I've seen several demos, and it's not always there. I've also experienced sync issues at various points during the demos, but I think they may be related to other TVs interfering with the sync signal, or by weak batteries in the glasses. It's definitely not always there.
post #69 of 113
I finally saw the Panasonic Demo today at Best Buy in Ohio. Outstanding picture quality. I had a feeling it would be better than the Samsung LED display. Now it could boil down to just content. The Panasonic had a much more robust showing of material. But from what I could tell, better color, black level and just solid. It was in the Magnolia area where it is darker and there were tvs flanking it to the left and right. I don't know, I was impressed none the less.

Cheers
post #70 of 113
I got a chance to see the Panasonic again today. For the first time, they let me adjust the picture mode (set to Cinema), the black level, blur reduction (on), 96hz mode (still preferred it at 60hz) and anything else I wanted. The experience was much better than the first time around. I'm really impressed with the Panasonic - much more so than the Samsung. I've seen each demo multiple times. The one thing I've been hesitant about is the Panasonic's motion handling. Not after today.

I've never felt with HD video that I was "looking out a window," not until now. For the first time since I had that phrase, I feel like it's true with the Panasonic. Spectacular.
post #71 of 113
Well I just watched Alice in Wonderland in 3D last week and it was the first time I watched a 3D for me since I watched Captain EO at Disneyland at the age of six (which by the way scared the crap out of me at the time). Later in the week I returned to a Best Buy store where I used to work and my old boss showed me the Samsung 3D set up. My initial impression was that it looked great but I thought that the active shudder glasses introduced a little more eye fatigue than the RealD glasses at the theater. I also must say I had my glasses on rather than my contacts which I wore to the theater and I'm not sure if that different focal point would make a difference. Although, the Samsung glasses do fit nicely in front of regular prescription lenses. Finally, at 55 inches 3D was just not large enough for me to really get excited over. I am eagerly awaiting some kind of front projection technology to come down the pipe as 3D really takes off when you can get it on a truly immersive screen. Hopefully with front projection you can also ditch the active shudder glasses and steal all the cheap RealD glasses from the local theater for your buds at your place.
post #72 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Well I just watched Alice in Wonderland in 3D last week and it was the first time I watched a 3D for me since I watched Captain EO at Disneyland at the age of six (which by the way scared the crap out of me at the time). Later in the week I returned to a Best Buy store where I used to work and my old boss showed me the Samsung 3D set up. My initial impression was that it looked great but I thought that the active shudder glasses introduced a little more eye fatigue than the RealD glasses at the theater. I also must say I had my glasses on rather than my contacts which I wore to the theater and I'm not sure if that different focal point would make a difference. Although, the Samsung glasses do fit nicely in front of regular prescription lenses. Finally, at 55 inches 3D was just not large enough for me to really get excited over. I am eagerly awaiting some kind of front projection technology to come down the pipe as 3D really takes off when you can get it on a truly immersive screen. Hopefully with front projection you can also ditch the active shudder glasses and steal all the cheap RealD glasses from the local theater for your buds at your place.

LOL! Until you read a post by an early adopter who bought a set of expensive glass lens passive polarized glasses and posts that the difference between the throwaways they hand out at the cinema and his are like night and day.
post #73 of 113
So they make descent passive lens glasses then too? Maybe I need my own for when I hit up the local theater LOL.
post #74 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Well I just watched Alice in Wonderland in 3D last week and it was the first time I watched a 3D for me since I watched Captain EO at Disneyland at the age of six (which by the way scared the crap out of me at the time). Later in the week I returned to a Best Buy store where I used to work and my old boss showed me the Samsung 3D set up. My initial impression was that it looked great but I thought that the active shudder glasses introduced a little more eye fatigue than the RealD glasses at the theater. I also must say I had my glasses on rather than my contacts which I wore to the theater and I'm not sure if that different focal point would make a difference. Although, the Samsung glasses do fit nicely in front of regular prescription lenses. Finally, at 55 inches 3D was just not large enough for me to really get excited over. I am eagerly awaiting some kind of front projection technology to come down the pipe as 3D really takes off when you can get it on a truly immersive screen. Hopefully with front projection you can also ditch the active shudder glasses and steal all the cheap RealD glasses from the local theater for your buds at your place.

Here's the LG SXRD 3D projector that was announced at CES. Unfortunately, it's rumored to cost about $10,000 when it's released, and you'll need a special screen.

I'm going to be looking at the Panasonic and Samsung 65" plasmas when they come out, and I might "make do" with one of those until a front projector is more affordable. I love the 50" Panasonic, but it's just far too small for immersive viewing. I couldn't get close enough to make up the difference in size. And sitting close isn't really a substitute for a big screen. I won't be happy until I can fill the 110" screen in my main home theater with a 3D image.
post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

"you'll need a special screen."

This probably isn't the place to ask this but I asked exactly about that "special screen" over in the screen area. I'm going to be looking at upgrading a screen eventually and it would be nice to know what kind of high gain or silver material is out there will future proof you to get in to a 3D set up with a projector like that down the road. Did they announce what material is needed yet?
post #76 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

So they make descent passive lens glasses then too? Maybe I need my own for when I hit up the local theater LOL.

GUNNAR To Manufacture Revolution Eyewear 3D Lens Technology

http://www.gunnars.com/news/gunnar-p...ns-technology/

Not as good but better than the throwaways:

http://www.look3d.com/
post #77 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

This probably isn't the place to ask this but I asked exactly about that "special screen" over in the screen area. I'm going to be looking at upgrading a screen eventually and it would be nice to know what kind of high gain or silver material is out there will future proof you to get in to a 3D set up with a projector like that down the road. Did they announce what material is needed yet?

A 3.0 or 4.0 High Gain Silver Screen. Works great for 3D - hot spots like crazy for 2D.

Like the Silver 3D from Stewart Filmscreen:

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/res...sidential.html
post #78 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

This probably isn't the place to ask this but I asked exactly about that "special screen" over in the screen area. I'm going to be looking at upgrading a screen eventually and it would be nice to know what kind of high gain or silver material is out there will future proof you to get in to a 3D set up with a projector like that down the road. Did they announce what material is needed yet?

DaLite has announced a silver screen for passive 3D, but I don't know about the quality. We expect several of the screen companies to announce new passive 3D screens in the next few months. The Vutec Silverstar is NOT a screen that can be used for passive 3D, nor is my DaLite High Power. Neither can maintain polarization. I'm hoping I can use active shutter glasses in my home theater, so I can keep my HP. Silver screens can compromise 2D viewing, and for a long time, most of what I watch will be 2D.
post #79 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

A 3.0 or 4.0 High Gain Silver Screen. Works great for 3D - hot spots like crazy for 2D.

Like the Silver 3D from Stewart Filmscreen:

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/res...sidential.html

Oh man, hot spotting on 2D, I think I'll have to see how bad it really is in person before I ever pull the trigger on a material like that, especially with Stewart prices. Just bought the RS20 and sacrificing 2D performance seems crazy right now.
post #80 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Oh man, hot spotting on 2D, I think I'll have to see how bad it really is in person before I ever pull the trigger on a material like that, especially with Stewart prices. Just bought the RS20 and sacrificing 2D performance seems crazy right now.

I owed a Silver 3D from Stewart. 144" 16x9 perforated fixed. The hot spotting was definitely noticeable, but it was the sacrifice I had to make to go to such a large screen with my Zenith Pro 900 3 CRT FPTV. I ordered at the same time a 1.0 white perforated and it was just too dim. My HT was a "cave." no windows, black ceiling, dark maroon carpeting on the walls and dark gray carpet on the floor. Black leather chairs
post #81 of 113
Thanks guys, I should have put that thread over in this area to start.
post #82 of 113
Dropped by Best Buy's Magnolia Theater yesterday and compared their Panasonic plasma and Samsung LCD displays. I was surprised at the 3D quality difference between them, although their setup may have played a role in this. The Panasonic was in the Magnolia section, less brightly lit than the store in general, and the Samsung on the main floor... less than ideal.

I saw the Panasonic first and my reaction was WOW. I then watched the Samsung, playing Monsters versus Aliens, and my reaction, less than WOW. In fact I could almost watch the Samsung without the glasses. Their 3D depth was very shallow, almost to the point of wondering if 3D was on or not (it was). Although the picture was bright, the colors seemed a bit washed out (I think the store lighting played a negative role here). Motion seemed smooth, I saw no flashing lights, and didn't notice any double-imaging (cross talk?). I also didn't see any flickering at all. But the 3D just seemed very shallow.

The Panasonic however was brighter, the colors were richer, and the depth was simply amazing and far superior to the Samsung. I didn't notice any flicker as some have reported. I wanted to see the M v A on the Panasonic to compare apples to apples on both systems, and the salesman played the same scene for me. Without the glasses the picture was unwatchable, but with them on, again, my reaction was WOW. No question if 3D was on or not. The same movie on both systems was very different.

I am assuming the Samsung was set up correctly, but I'm not sure that BB has made much of an effort to make the setups equal. However, based on what I saw, I don't believe I would buy it after watching the Panasonic.

So this is my initial impression, non-scientific and so on. Were I to buy now it would definitely be the Panasonic. But I'm not, since I have a Mitsubishi 3D-ready DLP, and I'm waiting to see what comes of this. (from what I've read thus far though, I don't think I'm going to be very satisfied, especially if the res gets cut in half... oh well).

If you get a chance be sure to check it out for yourself, and come up with your own conclusions.
post #83 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post

Yes this 3D proprietary model they are pushing is just like buying or using Apple ANYTHING...: Totally limited, totally controlled, by Apple. Buying and using Apple anything is like willfully putting yourself in prison so that you can use their toy and be told to "have fun" within the confines of your one room.

The past success of the Apple business model has likely prompted other makers to believe they can pull off the same thing... hopefully, if the 3 -D bit takes off (which I don't think it will)... some sort of standard will be nailed down. If not, then the lack of a standard will end up being just another obstacle in the path to 3-D.

I myself would much rather see more development in OLED. Can you say Holo Deck..??
post #84 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

The past success of the Apple business model has likely prompted other makers to believe they can pull off the same thing... hopefully, if the 3 -D bit takes off (which I don't think it will)... some sort of standard will be nailed down. If not, then the lack of a standard will end up being just another obstacle in the path to 3-D.

I myself would much rather see more development in OLED. Can you say Holo Deck..??

We don't have one standard for HD. Why would we need one standard for 3D? There isn't one standard for movies either.

OLED? They are up to 15" for a consumer product. LONG way to go before we see large OLED displays like 50" or greater.
post #85 of 113
OLEDs have nothing to do with holography, and OLED may be even further into the future at this point in its development than LCD was in its. It's a tough technology to pull off in larger sizes, and it's monster expensive when scaled up. For small screens, it's beautiful and affordable. I may not be able to resist getting a 3D-capable OLED phone one of these days. A phone is just about the right size for taking 3D pictures. I'm not going to be the least bit surprised to see dual lenses and 3D support software built into phones in the next few months. Set up a wireless connection between your 3D phone and your 3D HDTV and watch 3D stills as soon as you get home.
post #86 of 113
Right after I posted, I ran across this link about the Samsung Wave smartphone, which allows for 720p DIVX movie playback on an AMOLED display (and has a MicroSD slot). Killer 3D stuff is right around the corner for all types of displays, folks. As important as I think a large screen is for immersive home theater 3D, even small screens will be dramatically enhanced if they support 3D, especially with high contrast OLED screens.
post #87 of 113
Our chief engineer went to BB today and saw the Sammy demo. He said he noticed flicker at first, then it went away and didn't return. I figured it was probably a line of sight issue.

He said the 3D was cool, looked good.
post #88 of 113
Had a chance to check out Samsung 3d demo - Best Buy - Dartmouth
monsters vs aliens movie - believe was the Un55c7000 model
Now I am hoping there was some set-up issue going on as the picture for most part was unwatchable - the motion blur was amazingly bad
For such a reference blu ray the overall image was also disappointing
Lack of sharpness and washed out image
Talking to guys at store they have been getting the motion complaint constantly
They are hoping when they get in the Plasma demos not so bad
They indicated they had not sold any of the sets as yet
Now the 3D tech does look cool - so maybe just the TV to blame
Hoping to check out better Demo in future
post #89 of 113
Can you tell me what scenes you found the motion blur unacceptable?

If the stores can't even get this stuff right? I dunno...

I really checked it out last night for a long period of time at what is called an "Ultimate Electronics" and found no obvious issues with the 3D PQ at all.
post #90 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Had a chance to check out Samsung 3d demo - Best Buy - Dartmouth
monsters vs aliens movie - believe was the Un55c7000 model
Now I am hoping there was some set-up issue going on as the picture for most part was unwatchable - the motion blur was amazingly bad
For such a reference blu ray the overall image was also disappointing
Lack of sharpness and washed out image
Talking to guys at store they have been getting the motion complaint constantly
They are hoping when they get in the Plasma demos not so bad
They indicated they had not sold any of the sets as yet
Now the 3D tech does look cool - so maybe just the TV to blame
Hoping to check out better Demo in future

I've seen a Samsung demo. The 3D picture (besides some ghosting and a poor black level) was very good! No motion blur and lots and lots of depth with a number of scenes where images reached out of the screen at you, which was pretty cool. I haven't seen the Panny demo yet and if it is better then it should be a knock out.
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