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My Humble HT/Living Room - Page 3

post #61 of 294
Thread Starter 
Figured I would update my thread on what I've been doing and plan to do.

A few weekends ago, I spent about 7 hours moving furniture around and moving the sub to different areas in my little room ~1150 cu.ft.

My methodology was very simple (maybe too simple since I don't have or I should say don't know how to use REW or any other measuring tools yet). I would switch my receiver to Dolby PL Movie mode. I left the SubMersive volume dial at one position, left the receiver sub level the same and did my test with Anti-mode out of the chain with the same master level on the receiver for each location as well.

I would move the SubMersive to one position, pop in a test disc and test different frequencies to see what it did to the overall response. I would then adjust the Sub distance in the receiver until I got more smooth/even response around the crossover region and note all of this in a spreadsheet. Then pop in a movie to see how it sounded when I found a decent to good location. After a few hours of all this, I decided to try one last spot - a midwall location. I don't have a digital camera anymore but the SubMersive is now where my DVD cabinet was previously. I was surprise that gave the flattest response in my room. I then ran Anti-mode, re-did the Sub distance for a more even response around the crossover region (usually adding about 3.5 to 4ft). Now that the SubMersive is about 7ft away from me, I did lose some of the visceral feel from the previous nearfield location (plus I consider my room as leaky as it open to the rest of the house as well as some hollow inside doors leading to other rooms). I decide to run the Sub 3dbs hot and with the second DSP engaged for added lift in the lower hz. So far the results are pretty good and with even less localization vs nearfield. Another weird but very good side effect from all of this is that each seat now measures the same. I probably need some more listening sessions before I make a final decision but so far all these steps have seemed to yield improvements.

After doing some research online, talking with Bryan from GIK Acoustic and fellow SubMersive owner, MikeDuke, I've decided to order some room treatments from GIK to improve the overall sound in my room (not just the bass). They should be here by the end of next week. I ordered (2) GIK monster bass traps that will go over the big windows- behind my curtains, (2) 244 bass traps that will go behind my front mains, and (2) 242 panels for sidewall-first reflection (where the DVD cabinets was or above where the sub is currently). I would have ordered more for my corners but I want to see how well these work first and I may decide to move the Sub again after treatments or even move everything in the room 180 degrees. Leaving the room as is will require custom made sized Tri traps or custom Monster Bass traps for the corner. My previous pics do not show it but at the front of my room (current TV location), the ceiling is 8.4ft and tapers down to 7.5ft in the back of the room. Flipping the room 180 degrees will lose the use of one recliner and may actually be better for sound but I should be able to use/order the standard GIK Tri Traps.

To the right of that TV is a door that leads to our bedroom. That door is a hollow door and I'm going to replace that with a solid wood door. Replacing that door may help with bass pressurization. It may not because the other side of this room not shown in the pics is open to many other rooms of my home.

Room layout sketch is below. The opening is 8ft wide by 6.5ft tall. The blue pieces represent the speakers, tv and sub. The oval brown things are the recliners. The opening leads to other open rooms that are about ~5500cu ft. The opening is 8ft wide by 6.5ft tall.

I'll try to borrow a digital camera and take pics when the treatments are installed as well as post some impressions.

I'm also considering ordering OmniMic from Dayton in a few weeks/months.
post #62 of 294
I guess the thing to do is, when the treatments arrive, install them one at a time and see what changes there are in the sound with each change as opposed to putting it all up at once. That may be educational.

Configuring rooms can be a challenge. It's fun, but also work. We'll see how yours turns out.
post #63 of 294
Great update. If you remember I moved my sub out of the corner and it is along one of my long walls. It sounds really good there. I am also happy to hear that you ordered some treatments. I ordered custom size Tri Traps and 242's for the front of the room. It looks like you have a good treatment plan and I really think they will make a big difference. Looking forward to any updates.
post #64 of 294
Adjacent walls such as those in a corner tend to reinforce bass and can lend it a boomy quality. Putting a sub or any speaker along a long wall (as MikeDuke did) or at least away from side walls and corners should make for a much smoother response.

My speakers go low enough that I don't see a need for subs here, but it will be interesting to see what happens with your new setup. It could be that once you get the subs situated where you best like them your room may need more or less treatment than first thought.
post #65 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks Guys!

Actually there's been a few upgrades going on in the past few weeks/months.
I have the room mostly treated now and it does sound better. The SubM is currently placed in the Side Midwall location just like Mike's location. I actually got the idea from reading a posts where MikeDuke's SubM responded better there as well.

I also ordered 3 Sealed JTR Triple 8 for my Left Center and Right Channels.
I should have the JTRs in a week or so. The T8s will allow me to move the SubMersive towards the front of the room (about 3.5ft away from a corner) and use it as a stand for the Right T8 speaker. When I was moving my SubMersive around months ago, I found that the best response was in front of the room but could not keep it there as it would not fit there with my current tower speakers so this JTR move could be great all around move/upgrade for me.

Once I get everything installed and EQ'ed a bit, I'll post my impressions and try to get some new pics as well.

post #66 of 294
JTR's and a Seaton sub. I think that should be quite the setup. Glad the treatments worked out. I can't wait to read your thoghts when you get the JTR's. It should be a very different presentation then your current speakers.
post #67 of 294
Thread Starter 
The Fed Ex tracking numbers stated Tuesday delivery for my 3 Sealed T8s and was switched early this morning to Monday. At noon today, a Fed Ex guy showed up at my house with one of the sealed T8. I was always under the impression that Fed Ex did not deliver on Saturday. Either way, he and Jeff @ JTR just made my weekend!

My subjective impressions will come later but so far I think it's well packaged and as N8DOGG stated for its small size it feels like a heavy brick but in a good solid way. I pulled out a bathroom scale (not sure how accurate it is) and weighed the speaker at 45#s

All I did so far was hook the one as my center channel and level matched with the mains. My old Sapphire speakers were factory rated at 93db efficient at 8ohms and the receiver setting was set to -2.5 to achieve a 76db reference level. On the sealed T8s, I had to back that off to -6.5 to achieve the 76db reference. I am not using Auydessy but may try that again much later. Right now I'm just playing some music through them as I am not sure if they require any break in. Later today the wife and I will put some movies and enjoy.

Overall, I am very pleased with the look, feel and the packaging of the speaker.

Here's some pics with the center installed. For reference the TV is a 50inch Plasma.

post #68 of 294
Hi Claude, It's been awhile since I have checked into this thread. I like what you have done. Once you get the rest of the T8s hooked up I predict you will never leave that room again. So where are you going to put the bed?
post #69 of 294
Thread Starter 
LOL! Thanks Al!
Hope all is going well.

Actually, my old recliners are still comfy and have been known to knock a few people out (myself included) during some boring movies so I am not sure about needing a bed in there quite yet

The wife and I have been looking into getting some newer style Home theater seating but so far cant seem to find and or agree on something as comfy as our current chairs but have cupholders and what not installed.
post #70 of 294
Not bad. Not bad at all.
post #71 of 294
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post
LOL! Thanks Al!
Hope all is going well.

Actually, my old recliners are still comfy and have been known to knock a few people out (myself included) during some boring movies so I am not sure about needing a bed in there quite yet

The wife and I have been looking into getting some newer style Home theater seating but so far cant seem to find and or agree on something as comfy as our current chairs but have cupholders and what not installed.
if it ain't broke why bother. I check back later for some new pix
post #72 of 294
Thread Starter 
The other two JTRs are here. I'm using the SubMersive as a stand and, for now, a bar stool for the stand. I plan to let these break in for a few hours before doing any real listening on them.

Here's some pics:

post #73 of 294
Great pics. Nice upgrade indeed. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts about them after you have a bit more time on them.
post #74 of 294
Thread Starter 
Updated first page with the new set up.

Also forgot to mention that I just ordered 2 more small custom sized GIK Monster traps. If all goes well, I should have them tomorrow. This should be a pretty fun weekend.

Here's the list of the room/accoustic treatments after I receive the ones I just ordered:

EQ & Acoustic Treatments: Anti-Mode 8033C, 6 GIK small custom sized Monster Bass Traps, 2 GIK full size Monster Bass Traps, 2 (244) GIK Bass traps, 2 (242) for first reflection point - sidewall
post #75 of 294
Very nice, quite the potent little room there

I like the idea of the new sealed JTR's, I wasn't aware they were even offered. Both Jeff P, and Mark S. really have a handle on the products that audio enthusiasts appreciate.

Nice room, good luck.
post #76 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks FOH!

Mark Seaton was one of the folks that recommended the sealed T8s to me. I asked him about a passive version of the Cat 8c and he advised there were no current plans for it. There are a few issues with me getting the active Cats 8c: the biggest one was cost, not just the cost of the 8C but for an electrician to come out and install more lines/outlets/breakers since everything in that room is run off of a 15amp circuit. I have not had any issues to date but not sure if the room would have been able to handle 3 Cats 8c, a SubMersive HP and all the other equipment. Even my current TV stand would need to be modified/replaced as the Cats would have been slightly too tall if I angled them up. I was also trying to be somewhat practical – not saying a JTR T8 is equivalent to the Cat 8C in SQ cuz I never heard the Cats which is probably a good thing because my wallet is light enough at this point Mark also stated that the sealed T8 should be very good in my room since my speakers are placed close to a wall. I’m very pleased with the sealed 888s so far.

My other two bass traps came in today and just finished installing them. I also got some new Blurays from Netflix and some other blurays came in today that I previously ordered from Gohastings. This should be a very nice weekend indeed!
post #77 of 294
Great stuff. Like I said, JTR's and a Seaton HP should be quite the setup. Also glad to see that you are getting more treatments. It looks like you have 12 total. I have 8 total. I am running out of space, but to be honest, I really don't think I need any more. I can honestly sau that after Craig did this last calibration for me, my room has NEVER sounded better. Now if I can only get the right Lazy Boy's I would be set. Looking forward to reading any more you have on the JTR's.
post #78 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mike! I am really happy things are working out for you as well! Also, I'm real thankful for your recommendations about talking to Brian Pape at GIK Acoustic. His treatment recommendations really helped out a lot in my small square-ish room too.

Most of you are aware how impressed I was with the SubMersive HP when I first got it and had it nearfield but before it even landed here, Mark Seaton and HTG, aka Al, was recommending that I try to make it fit in the front of the room for the best overall response. I could not do it then because of the lack of room with towers but I was still very happy with the nearfield placement. The mid-wall placement that I tried later worked well too but I lost some tactile feel. I am now completely blown away (all over again) with the SubMersive and I've yet to try the 2nd dsp in this location. Since I don't know how to use REW and, quite frankly, somewhat intimated by it, I decided to download the Real Traps test disc a few months back. The test disc goes from 10hz to over 100hz in 1hz increments. Bottom line is that the SubMersive not only measures best in the front of the room but the SQ, tactile feel and how it blends with all the other speakers without any localization, leaves my jaw on the floor!

We were able to squeeze in 4 movies so far this weekend and it's been quite the experience with the new sub location and the JTRs. I should have my review of the T8s very soon.
post #79 of 294
Thread Starter 
As promised, here my take on the JTR Sealed T8s after living with them for a week. I have this in the JTR Speaker Thread and copied it below

Note: I do not consider myself as an audiophile, probably far from it, but I do know what I like.

Recently I ordered 3 Sealed T8-HT-lp.
The Sealed T8 provided me with more placement options to move my SubMersive in the front of my room and is blending better now, has a flatter response and I can turn the SubMersive up 3db so far without localize it. This may not be a concern for most but with my limited placement in my little ~1150cu. ft room, this was a BIG deal and made the SubMersive breathe new life to the Bass in my room while the sealed 888s did the same for the mid/upper frequencies. In short, my room has never sounded this good with the 3 JTRs sealed T8s as LCR and the SubMersive HP in the front of the room. I think this may pretty much sum it up but if you want to read more (Take a few deep breaths and continue)

I got one sealed T8 on Saturday (that's right, I was not even aware Fed Ex delivered on Saturday). I noticed how well packaged the speaker was - you could probably hurl it off some steps and not damage the speaker not that I would try something like that. When I pulled the sealed 888 out, I noticed how rock solid the cabinet was and the overall look and feel was great. I put the sealed T8 on my bathroom scale and it registered 45lbs. The cabinet seemed very well made and this weight may allow for more placement options for folks like me. I set this T8 as the center channel played some music through it for about 2 hours and watched 3 movies on it over that weekend. I thought the T8s would have really pointed out the other speaker's flaws/weakness but it actually enhanced the experience somehow. It could have been providing a better experience because of the better dialog, whatever the reason, I could not really pin point it but liked it. My old center speaker was rear ported and was about 7 inches away from the back wall. Sometimes this would give a somewhat boxy sound on particular scenes of certain movies. The sealed T8s are not as deep (physically) as my old center channel so they are 12inches away from that same wall and have yet to sound boxy.

I received the other 2 sealed T8s the following Monday and started playing music in them (stereo mode) for a few hours to break them in. These two alone created a much bigger "wall of sound" in my room than my previous speakers. Since they were breaking in, I did not sit and listen to them all the time but stopped in the room on 4 different occasions and sat down in my listening position. I had to get up to check if the center channel was on (all 4 times) because two channel music sounded like the vocals were coming from the middle of the room while the instruments were towards the left and right of the room - FREAKIN AWESOME!!!!!! My other speakers could not do this to the degree the JTRs were (not even close and I previously thought my speakers were fairly decent at this too). This also translates to a Much Improved HT experience with all 3 up front. Now when things happen to the left and right of the screen, it sounds like its coming from the left and right of the screen - when something happens to the left or right Off-screen, it sounds like its coming Off-screen where it should be and it's not pinpointed exactly at the speaker which I feel, for me, greatly adds to the suspension of disbelief movie experience. The JTRs were in the same exact position as my old speakers and were toed in just the same.

My other speakers were Sapphires and were rated at 93db at 8ohms. I'm using an Onkyo 805 receiver and no external amp. I had to adjust the speaker levels in the receiver to -2.5 to achieve a 76db reference level with the Sapphires using a RS SPL analog meter. Once the JTRs were hooked up, I had to back that off to from -2.5 to -6.0 to achieve the same 76db reference. Clearly the T8s were more efficient but these numbers don't tell the whole story. When listening at louder levels, 12 to 10dbs from reference, the JTRs still sounded clear especially during peaks where the other speakers would start to distort and sound harsh at these levels. Actually some peaks, depending on the movie, with the T8s would make you flinch/blink/jump now but not in a negative cringing type way where you are reaching for the remote to turn it down. The clean dynamics/peaks of the JTRs vastly improves the HT experience! I've watched some movies that I've seen many times prior and there are some fine subtle details that more pronounce now. Basically everything everyone else had stated in their JTR vented T8 reviews can be echoed here again (Dynamics/Clarity/Neutral Crystal Clean sound/How well voices are handledetc)

If there is a down side, my old speaker had more in the mid-upper bass region (80hz to 150hz). This bass thing, right or wrong, could just be what I was used to since I lived with my Sapphires speakers for ~6 years. I loved my old speakers for music and really liked them for movies but my use is 95% + for HT. While my old speakers may have had more mid-upper bass, after a few hours of break in, I found the T8s to be more snappy/punchy maybe more accurate, in the mid/upper bass department. For the first couple of hours or use, I also thought the T8 were a tad too strong in the midrange (for me) but after about ~10hrs of breakin, everything seems much more balanced. The more I listen to the sealed JTRs, the more I LOVE them. I'm not sure if this is/was the JTRs breaking in more or if this is me getting acclimated with the new sound.

Even though my receiver has Auydessy XT eq, I did not like to use it with my Sapphire speakers because I thought it made the speaker sound thin/bright. I have not used Auydessy yet with the T8, I may end up trying it at some point but for now, I'm not inclined to change a thing.

Like many of you, even with all the terrific reviews about JTRs, I found it really difficult to spend this kind of cash on speakers that you can't walk into a store and audition. For some reason, when I read a combination words like loud/clean/clear/crisp, I sometimes associate that with the word bright. So when reading some reviews here about JTRs, I was still skeptical because I have heard some speakers that other folks rave about and I thought they sounded too bright for me and could only listen to them for short periods of time. The JTRs are not bright but as others have said - they are very clean/clear neutral sounding. I'm far from wealthy guy but can say this so called gamble was well worth it! I've not had too much time with music but mostly with movies and the 888s really excel for movies. What short time I had with JTRs for music has been pretty good - better than I anticipated.

When I first got the SubMersive, my placement options were very limited but I feel that it really helped the overall sound of my room and helped the Sapphire speakers shine as well. Due to space limitations, I first had the SubMersive nearfield for about 8 months. I then tried a mid-wall placement. Both locations sounded good and each had their benefits and drawbacks. The T8s allowed for another Sub placement option that the old towers did not (in front of the room) which ultimately gave the best response, best overall sound and very good tactile feel but with no localization. The bass was on another level and the JTR 888s shine even more vs my old Sapphires. Not only do I love the Sealed 888s but they made me fall love with my SubMersive HP all over again! For the Price, Size, Performance and the different placement options they allowed in my room -I could NOT be any happier!!

I wanted to thank so many of you for your fantastic reviews which lead me down this JTR path, especially RMK, N8Dogg, Goonstopher, MX48 and even Mark Seaton for suggesting the new sealed T8s for my limited space/placement, electrical power limitations and budget. Also, a BIG FAT THANK YOU!!! to Jeff @ JTR for taking the time to answer all my questions, making recommendations, the great communication back and forth, making this new killer product and getting it out to me so quickly! Doing business with JTR has been nothing less than stellar!

post #80 of 294
Great write up. Glad it all worked out. Us small room guys have to stick together .
post #81 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mike! I hear ya about the small room but now with the treatments and new set up in place (like you) I love my small room!

Here's something amusing that I posted in the JTR speakers thread as well:

I think I may have understated the dynamic capability of these things in my review. The wife and I love watching all genre's of movies but our favorites are action and horror flicks. While it was common (with the old set up) for us to flinch/jump during some intense moments of a good horror flick, I noticed, for the first time, we both did that during some action movies with the new set up. I could actually see my wife's feet and legs bounce in my peripherals during two different action movies this weekend. (PRICELESS!)

This was the conversation that followed this morning:

Me: We may need to get a defibrillator before we watch a good horror flick with this new set up

Wife: YES!!, We may need to get some Depends to go along with that defibrillator!
post #82 of 294
Awesome stuff, Claude. Keep on enjoying that great setup!


PS. I'll add that I believe Audyssey XT could bring another level of improvement to your system. Just run it according to THE GUIDE:
post #83 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks Craig!

I will eventually try Audyssey again and the 2nd Dsp in the SubMersive too but for now, its really hard for me to not sit back and enjoy but I hear ya, if there are improvements to be had with stuff I already have, its worth another try especially since room treatments were added and these are different speakers with a different sub placement.
post #84 of 294
If only my setup were so "humble"
post #85 of 294
Thread Starter 
Thanks! I guess with some of the upgrades within the past year, its getting less humble and I love it but still somewhat humble as most of systems on here
post #86 of 294
Thread Starter 
I thought I would update this thread with some more of my thoughts and recent experiences/discoveries.

When I first got the sealed JTRs and moved the SubMersive HP to the front of the room, I was incredibly impressed by the set up and how I had it dialed in. After about a week or so, I started playing around with the crossover frequencies, distances settings of the Sub and the volume of the Sub and main speakers. Using the Real Trap test disc which has 1hz incremental test tones from 10hz to ~100hz, the receiver test tones, the Audio Tool DVD kit supplied with the SubMersive and my newer RS analog SPL meter, I found that a 90Hz cross over for the mains looked slightly better around the Xover frequency vs 80Hz. While the 90Hz looked better on paper, to my ears, 80Hz sounded better in my room. After a few weeks of testing, I found my original settings with some minor tweaks seemed to be the best. Also running the SubMersive 2-3 db hot in my room seems to blend perfectly for movies. I prefer only 1-2dbs hot for some music. I may try out DSP2 in the SubMersive later and may try to re-run Audyssey again at some point but I'm extremely happy with everything!

We all know that a good set of speakers, equipment, eq and room treatments can make a nice impact to the sound but I was kinda floored at some stuff that transpired this weekend. While the wife and I noticed an improvement in overall sound in our room, we had my 8 year old niece over to spend the night and watched 2 movies with her. With my old speakers and without treatments, I would not raise the Master Volume no more than -18 with my niece in the room as she would quickly complain that it's too loud. On Friday night we watched the first movie and I started the volume at -16 and about 30 minutes in, I asked her was that too loud, she said Nope! I then turned it up to -13 and about another 30 minutes later, I asked her again if it's too loud. Her response was the same. For the last 30 minutes, I raised the MV to -11 and asked again and again she replied it was fine. After breakfast on Saturday morning, she was begging me to watch another one and we did. I started with the MV at -14 for the first half of the movie and asked her twice if that was too loud and if she wanted me to turn it down, she said it was fine. I then raised it to -11 and asked her again, she said it sounded good and still not too loud for her. I know I should not be amazed at this stuff as this was what it was partially designed for but enjoying movies with my niece and wife at these spirited volumes was well worth the price of admission.
post #87 of 294
I have to agree with the ability to raise the level higher. I played TRON at -12 and it was no problem and not uncofortable at all. I could probably go louder but I want to watch a few more movies at -12 and see how they are.
post #88 of 294
Thread Starter 
Yeah Mike. I can say the JTR/Seaton combo is truly a Blessing and a Curse!

A Blessing cuz I love it and really enjoy it!

A Curse cuz I started working from home late last year and I find it somewhat difficult to focus on my work at times as I want to go fire up a movie in the other room. I've been good so far but part of me wants this Honeymoon phase to end before I start giving into temptation and eventually lose my job
post #89 of 294
Thread Starter 
I've previously stated that we watch movies loud and on the weekend it can be as late at 3-4am in the morning too. I've always checked with my neighbors and they always tell me it does not bother them as a matter of fact, they can't even hear it in their home. I'm pretty cool with these neighbors so I sometimes wonder if they are just saying this to be polite. My closest neighbor's house, which is also concrete block construction, is ~50ft away from us. All other houses are over 200ft away.

Sometimes movies are so loud in my home that I can't believe that it's not bothering anyone outside our home. I did some minor testing today. I played some scenes from the Incredible Hulk (2008) and went outside towards my neighbor's house but still in my yard to see how loud it was. It was quiet out there. I then went back in to my home to take it a step further. Armed with my RS analog SPL meter, I sat in my listening position, turned the MV up to -9.5 on the receiver and played the entire sound cannon scene/chapter from the Incredible Hulk (2008). I had the settings on the SPL meter to C weighted and Fast. In my listening position, it was registering most peaks around ~104db with a few peaks at ~108db. These numbers are all uncorrected. I then started the scenes over and walked outside towards my closest neighbor's house but still in my yard (same spot as before). I was ~25ft away from my house and the SPL meter was now reading a few peaks at around ~67db with one or two peaks topping out at 72db. It sounded very quiet out there as well. I can only assume it's even quieter still another 25ft away IN the neighbors house. The other plus side is that their bedroom is all the way on the opposite side of their house so it's the furthest point from my home.

While my little room may not be ideal, I've tried to make improvement to help in the SQ department. It's great to have a system like this that we truly enjoy at anytime but even better to know that we can continue doing what we are doing guilt free
post #90 of 294
Very interesting findings. I too often worry about offending my neighbors as well. They too are great neighbors, and we all get along swimmingly. Therein lies the problem, I feel they merely say it's no issue, as to just be polite. I've insisted, as politely as I can, that they let me know if any rumblings bother them. I'm not sure about yours, but the ambient noise level outside here is as quiet as it gets. My neighbors are approximately 100 feet on the side closest to our HT, and 30 feet or so on the side adjacent to our garage. I take the dog out at all hours of the night, and I've purposely been out while the system is pumping full tilt,....IMO the amount of LF is low, however pretty distinct.

I'm trying to wrap up an IB, and my thinking is the outside exposure of an attic IB system, would be somewhat mitigated due to the out of phase acoustical elements nulling some of the LF energy outside.

I'm a big fan of your system, just a cool little space, with a top notch rig.

Thanks for sharing.
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