Epson 8100/8500 or Mitsubishi 3800 or Panasonic PT-AE4000U

If the $ is not a big deal and you can get a solid unit I would suggest the Epson 8500.

Jason

Boy I would suck it up and save for the 8500, its not much more but service and picture will be worth it.

Other than the added features, like the 2.35 mode, on the AE4000 the Epson 8500 is superior IMO. The Epson throws a better over all image, plain and simple.

Jason

EXACTLY! Where you want your money to really count the Epson wins!!!!

You get a much better overall picture, for $300 its a no brainer plus Epson is awesome at customer service. You wont dislike the 4000 by any means but if you dont intend to use some if its fluff features why pay for it? Instead get the overall better unit.......................the 8500.

Absolutely not true. The following link is a review comparing the Panny and Epson.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...nic_ae4000.htm

There are others as well that say more or less the same. Outside of black levels in which most real world use means only scenes that are really dark, which are the exception and not the rule, is where the Epson bests the Panny. Other than that if anything the review gives the edge in PQ to the Panny and then throw in the feature set and 300.00 lower price tag and the Panny is the no brainer buy, not the EPson.

I'm sure you'll be happy with any of those projectors based on the reviews they've garnered.

I own the panny 4000, projecting onto a 120'' diagonal seymourav AT screen from about 12.5 feet away in a batcave. Couldn't be happier. I have put about 40 hours on it so far, and still sit there amazed by the picture quality throughout whatever bluray I'm watching. No fancy calibration needed, picture temp and quality are perfect imo out of the box with the color1 setting.

Even during terrible movies, such as "Couple's Retreat" that I watched with my wife the other night, I was still having fun because the visuals were so impressive.

I'm not impressed by the Epson 8100. I was too distracted by the overly harsh iris, which crushes blacks and gives the image a very digital look. It's neither smooth nor film-like.

I've had nothing but trouble with Panasonic's support team. My AX200U has less than 500 total hours on it and the optical block failed a few months out of the 2-yr warranty period. The optical block was replaced at about 150 hours and the iris at about 180 hours.

Panasonic wanted me to spend $130 plus shipping to "diagnose" what PP had already cited as the optical bock failing, and there was absolutely no promise to help. The supervisor promised me a call back (and noted that he saw I would be taking the survey after the call), but hid behind email. The whole thing felt like a scam.

It took posting to Panasonic's livinginhd.com site to get any help. As of now they've waived the diagnosis fee and we'll know in a few days what next-steps are. Still it was a struggle to get any help.

Im on the same boat between the Panasonic PT-AE4000U and the Epson 8500.

Which would be best for Gaming (Lag response time) and Watching HDTV like football or basketball ( Lights on with friends and family over).

I will have controlled lighting so I can shut the lights off near the screen and keep the rest on where we sit and hang out.
Thanks!!

Black levels are the rule, not the exception. Most PJs look great in a brightly lit scene - But a large portion of films is dark.. and that's where the differences are important.

Best bang for the buck vote - HC3800

I dont see how you can own a Projector and not think Black levels are about the most important part of a great HT experience. I said all along a 4000 or a 8500 will make anyone happy but from what I read (and you do have to read between the lines on reviews many times) the Epson is a better unit. I have seen the 8500 and its a great unit.
Both a great and will make you happy but I and others think the 8500 is simply a better unit, some like the 4000 and thats fine too. But for $300 I think you get a better image and a better service oriented company......those are huge in my book. I have owned 2 Panasonics and while they had flaws for sure I loved them both so I have no bias or ax to grind with Panasonic.

Read the review, because you are not interpreting the wording correctly. The reviewer did not say black levels are the exception and not the rule. He said, only scenes that are really dark, which are the exception. The way I explained it in my sentence about black levels was wrong. The area where the black level excels on the Epson is only very dark scenes, which truly are the rare exception and not the rule in film. Large portions of films are not dark, but again the point is not so much in dark scenes in general, but only the darkest of scenes which are the exception, unless some horror film or genre piece with dim, little or no lighting representing the era.
The black levels on both are equal with typical viewing other than the above mentioned.



chadlinz, read between the lines on the review I provided and it in no uncertain terms gives the edge to the Panny although it goes onto say it is subtle.

I am not saying black levels aren't important, but what is important to note is that while Epson does better with black levels in the darkest of scenes, it doesn't mean the black levels on the Panny are poor or unwatchable. Several forum members who have owned other projectors and now bought the Panny were concerned about black levels, but since getting it say the blacks are fine and there are no issues with black levels.

"However, when viewing scenes that do not have substantial black components (which is most of them), it's a different story. In scenes with more typical average light levels, the AE4000 renders them in higher contrast, with deeper color saturation and a bit more three- dimensionality. This comes from the improved light control within the engine itself."

"Picture Quality. This is a catch-all category that is subjective. We set aside the technical stuff and meter readings and ask, "Which picture actually looks better?" In our experience, the 8500 looks better when the picture has a lot of black in it, simply due to its advantage in deeper black level. It also has a bit more pop when used in ambient light in its brightest modes. On the other hand, the AE4000 has a clarity and smoothness that edges that of the 8500. When viewed in a dark room, the AE4000 also has an incremental contrast advantage in most scenes that makes us prefer its image most of the time. We do not wish to make it sound like there are huge differences in the pictures however. These are both outstanding projectors, and the differences between them are subtle."

I own a projector, it's in a dedicated room, and I think black levels are possibly the least important thing in my HT experience. I also think that overblown black levels always come with compromises that in some cases, are a deal buster to me.

I think it's rare to look around these forums and find a person who thinks their projector makes anything but a great picture. Even with weaknesses, they love em. No pj is perfect, and none claim to be the be-all-end-all to picture quality.

In my memory of reading on this forum, LCD alignment is an issue regardless of brand, and those who have had their misalignment issues resolved, even small ones, were happy they did.

I was in the same boat as you and went with the epson 8500 for a number of reasons. First was bulb life, epson was 4000 in any mode , Panny 2000 in normal, 3,000 in econ, but Panny is a dimmer projector, and many use normal mode. Also Epson bulb is $299, Panny is $399. Warranty, 2 years on the epson with overnight replacement paid by epson, Panny is one year, some places have a mail in free second year, but you are limited to 2000 hours. And I believe with the Panny you have to pay one way of the shipping. Epson is much brighter, and this is important if you want to have company over for a game. The one thing Panny has going for them is the lens memory system, and this made my decision tough. But , if you have been paying attention to the plasma section, and noticed that Panny has a major problem with the black levels of their (12G Plasmas), rising as they age. (I own a g10), and they refuse to admit their is a problem, well this is why I took my money to the Epson. BTW, I only paid $198 more for the Epson, than the Panny would have cost, from PP. Its my first Projector, but it throws an amazing picture.

Sorry it was my bad wording - I only meant to express the importance of black levels using the expression, not put words in the reviewers mouth..

Take this latest Blu-Ray.com review of Collateral:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Collat...eenshots/3979/

Sure it's an example of a movie that's ALL dark.. but quite a few movies are - pick pretty much any horror or thriller and you'll barely be able to make out the action on a lot of displays.

Action titles like Hulk and Doom are other examples of the disappearing film.. but overall I would say that 60%, maybe more, of all movies are dark.

Perhaps it's just the kind of movies I like to watch (Just casting my mind over whats in the shelf highlights a few problem items such as AvP, Taken, I Am Legend etc).. If you were into Dramas/Animation etc it wouldn't be such a big problem - everything is relative I suppose.

Fwiw, black levels are not just for "dark" scenes. They are an indication of how dark each color segment can go, which effects the richness and depth of all colors. That impact is part of the appeal of a grey screen. (It is also the appeal the legacy, CRT owners have who shoot for "inky black".)

For scenes that are generally dark, shadow detail is what will give you a better viewing experience.

These are generalities for all projectors.

Panasonic ae4000 hands down. If looking for a under $2000 projector i'd suggest the viewsonic pro8100 Many believe it's better than epson 8100 and rivals the ae4000.

I bought an Epson 8500 about 2 weeks ago, and so far I'm very happy with it. I would definitely buy it again. I considered the Panasonic, but the brightness and bulb life made the final call (horror stories about Panasonic's service didn't help).

Im about to pull the trigger on the 8500UB. Can anyone recommend a place to get the best deal and PM what the best price would be? Are they still offering any rebates?