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Official Logitech Harmony 650/600 remote thread - Page 30

post #871 of 1200
I don't think it's possible, but you could try the "replace remote" option in the software.
post #872 of 1200
I agree, "replace remote" is the best bet. I've just used this option to move my programming from a 650 to a One and back to a 650, and most programming was transferred except "additional buttons."
post #873 of 1200
does anyone know how many favorite channel icons you can put on this remote?
post #874 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post

does anyone know how many favorite channel icons you can put on this remote?
23 on the 650. The 600 has the same number of favorites but no icons.
post #875 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

23 on the 650. The 600 has the same number of favorites but no icons.

excellent,
thank you sir!
post #876 of 1200
I'm trying to get the next gen genius purple to work with my 650, so far no joy. It does work in my original foxtel remote but when I put it in my 650 nothing. I've tried the little tab over the batteries, on the right side, left side, setting a, b, c,. Any ideas? Do I have to change any delays on remote or something.
Any ideas would be much appreciated
post #877 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy bob View Post

I'm trying to get the next gen genius purple to work with my 650, so far no joy. It does work in my original foxtel remote but when I put it in my 650 nothing. I've tried the little tab over the batteries, on the right side, left side, setting a, b, c,. Any ideas? Do I have to change any delays on remote or something.
Any ideas would be much appreciated


You may have read some posts where people said it worked with the 650 but most find that it doesn't. Also, the manufacturer says it doesn't > http://www.nextgen.us/Articles.asp?ID=136
post #878 of 1200
I'm having an issue where the 650 reboots when you start an activity. Individual device control seems to function fine. My first 650 did this and Logitech replaced it. Now the replacement is doing the exact same thing.
post #879 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

I'm having an issue where the 650 reboots when you start an activity. Individual device control seems to function fine. My first 650 did this and Logitech replaced it. Now the replacement is doing the exact same thing.
You may be able to fix this yourself. Sometimes this is just a loose battery connection. Pull the springs to make them a little tighter and see if the problem goes away. Otherwise, you may have something corrupt in your activity macro causing the crash. In that case create a new activity and see if it works. If so, you know it's the code, so you can simply redo the misbehaving activities.

As for Ozzy's Next Gen problem, I'm with Vin. I've seen a few success reports but not many. Maybe if the stars are aligned just right you could get it working, but generally not. Some remotes just aren't compatible due to the layout of the circuit board, hence the battery is always too far away from the electric field it needs to pick up in order to function.
post #880 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You may be able to fix this yourself. Sometimes this is just a loose battery connection. Pull the springs to make them a little tighter and see if the problem goes away. Otherwise, you may have something corrupt in your activity macro causing the crash. In that case create a new activity and see if it works. If so, you know it's the code, so you can simply redo the misbehaving activities.

As for Ozzy's Next Gen problem, I'm with Vin. I've seen a few success reports but not many. Maybe if the stars are aligned just right you could get it working, but generally not. Some remotes just aren't compatible due to the layout of the circuit board, hence the battery is always too far away from the electric field it needs to pick up in order to function.

Tried the battery clip fix on the old one and this one. No go. I did change the batteries out and the remote did actually go through an activity maybe it was just that. Usually it tells you low battery though. I'm not impressed with the 650. My previous Harmonys 550 and 880 were really good. One died by being eaten by a puppy and the other just quit after like 5 years.

I miss that 550.
post #881 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

Tried the battery clip fix on the old one and this one. No go. I did change the batteries out and the remote did actually go through an activity maybe it was just that. Usually it tells you low battery though. I'm not impressed with the 650. My previous Harmonys 550 and 880 were really good. One died by being eaten by a puppy and the other just quit after like 5 years.

I miss that 550.

Yea, sounds like a low battery. Had the same issue with mine, started an activity then the remote would reset. Changed the batteries and all is fine. Yea, my low battery indicator never comes on with my 650. My 550 was a great remote, actually still works but has a few keys that stick occasionally. Keys on the 550 were small but never had an issue. I am not too impressed with the 650. Build quality on the 650 is nowhere near my older 550. The Ultimate looks to be getting good reviews, but for me and the transport keys at the very top of remote is a no-go.
post #882 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You can add any commands you want to the activity macros using the 7.7 software, but not myharmony. This is one of the many reasons myharmony should be avoided.

Hi mdavej,
While I apprecieate your help in this forum and your knowledge on the harmony, I do think you need to refresh your knowledgebase occasionally, otherwise you're spreading misinformation. smile.gif

I only have the 650 for one month, and I have used both the software and myharmony. I like myharmony much more than the ancient software. I found myharmony is not as limited as what you said. I think you're based on the situation a few years ago, but they have improved, a lot, when comparing what you posted below. I pointed out all incorrect claims if you don't mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

MyHarmony looks nice and is easy to use, but it's missing so much functionality it's pretty useless to me:

- no sequences -- it has sequences now, and better. It now has 10 steps instead of 5 in the software. I'll post more detailed rants in my next post
- no way to adjust backlight time
- ability to adjust delays/repeats is very limited -- not sure what do you mean limited but it appears to be as flexilble (and inflexible) as the software
- no way to import pronto hex
- no way to add more steps to the start/end of activity macros -- it can do it now, but only after the power on sequence and before the power off sequence
- no way to reorder activities
- no way to rename devices -- it can rename both device and activity now

The list goes on.

So, as of now, I think myharmony is quite good for even an advanced user, especially it now can take 10 steps in sequences. I found the longest sequence I need is between 5 and 10 steps, and did not see the need to beyond 10. Of course the more the better. There is no technical reasons of this limit. This is just another freakish thinking from the developer or the management. More rants in my next post.

It does not support learn raw. But with 10 steps it does not bother me.

So my conclusion is myharmony is for novice to advanced users. The software is for the hard core users like you. Heck I don't even know what pronto hex is!
Edited by hotjt133 - 7/25/13 at 9:07pm
post #883 of 1200
These are some of my thoughts and rants on the harmony, in general. Forgive my bad temper.

The following features are missing in myharmony, but available in the software:
- no way to adjust backlight time -- I found the default 10 seconds is perfect for me. 5 is too short, 15 is unnecessarily long which consumes more battery. Of course YMMV.
- no way to import pronto hex -- I don't even know what it is, and have no intention to learn it. So this is a hard core feature to me.
- no raw learning -- It is good to have, but with 10 step sequences I don't need it. In the software this is the feature that you can use to work around the 5 step limit.
- not able to remove an assigned button -- once you drag a command to a button, you can only drag a different command to replace it, but can't make it empty. The software can do it.
- no way to reorder activities -- This is the biggest disadvange in the myharmony.

Some other random points:
- you can drag a command to a button, exactly what you see on the remote. This is a better implementation of myharmony.
- the favourite icon shown in myharmony is different from what is really shown on the remote. The remote image is much worse after scaling. They also display transparent png very badly which forced me to use white background jpg. Can't blend in nicely.
- the software still demands a laser disk in "watch a movie" activity. How many people still remember that thing?
- there is no blu-ray device. They used lame excuese such as "blu-ray is an extension of DVD". The truth is they don't want spend more programming money on this one, yet willing to spend a lot more to make it inflexible, see below.

I think many people have complained before, and let me repeat that. What are the developers and mangement think when they try very very hard to limit, and over control the remote behaviour! They are really control freaks (Apple springs to mind).

I can understand it is a noble practice to limit certain features on their low end models to lure you to their higher end models. But many of the deliberate limitations are across the board, regardless of product price.

Sometimes they overthink what you are doing, and what you SHOULD do, instead of just let you do whatever you want. Here is my list of many nitty gritty things that I can think of.

  • Why limit the sequence to 10 steps? There is no technical reasons. Some remote can do 250 steps. As long as memory is enough, just let the user do whatever he wants! 250, or 256 may be logical if the firmware is using 8 bit register or variable. I don't think harmony is only using 4 bit such that there is a hard limit of 16. Well, if they are indeed still using 4 bit to store the steps, it is time to move from 1980s to 21st century!
  • Why only allow you to reorder the power on, but not power off? They think you don't need to care of power off, but in situations you do need.
  • Why can't you insert a command before, or in-between the power on steps? And why can't you insert a command after, or in-between the power off steps? Some situations do need this.
  • They force you to setup power on/off delay and other command in device level instead of activity level. This overcomplicate things. Some situations I need different power on/off delay in different activites. Just open up the activity grid and let you choose.
  • Why limit the delay to 20 seconds? My PJ needs 20-30s to warm up and switch inputs. I can add 2 delay commands, but again for some freakish reason if I do not put a real command after the delay, it won't honor my second delay. So it forced me to find a dummy command after each delay. Why why why? Can't they just do, precisely what ever YOU instruct it to do? They are over programming just to give you more limitations!
  • Why some delays are limited to 0.5second step, while some others in 100ms steps? Can't they just implement a numeric field to let you put in whatever seconds or milliseconds? To force you click the arrow to increase from 0 to 20 seconds, in 100ms interval, is stupid.
  • If I have only 2 inputs, and I setup my input style as menu-up-down-select style. Then when I switch inputs, they always use menu-down and never use menu-up. But if it is more than 2 inputs, then they will do both up and donw accordingly. Why why why? Are they too smart? Can't they just do, precisely what ever YOU want to do?
  • Why do you must have a display device in a movie actitivy? In fact, why specify the type of device at all? A TV can certainly be used for music. Of course you can go around it, but why do you need to? Just let you configure whatever device you have in whatever activity. Completely remove device type can make the their program and database simpler, and make user setup simpler.
  • Why do they demand a device must have an input? My HTPC is a source and it does not have any input, yet it forced me to create at least one input, otherwise the Next button is disabled. It just made me feel stupid to invent a non-existent input just to please their control god to let me complete the setup. Another freakish way of overthinking.
  • I don't like so many stupid questions asked in every step. It should just simply give you the option list that you can setup. It just made me feel like a stupid people. But maybe that's good for the computer-illiterate people. So I can understand that.
  • Not applicable to me, but I read someone has issues of setup channel number with a dot. They don't like dot. They think you should always use number only because they manage all TV broadcasters in the world. Why not allow a free text field?


In fact, why can't they, for example in the power on sequence, just give you an excel style grid and let you put whatever command, delay, or anything, any order that you want? This is an easier programming and easier setup, because it let the user to take full control on everything. This will greatly reduce trial and error. But their solution is to ask you stupid questions like "is the TV on?" If they let user take full control on the power on action, then there is no need to be asked this kind of silly questions like a 5 year old kid.

All in all, they are spending unnecessary programming resources to delibrately make it inflexible, for no benefit for anyone, especially to annoy someone like me!

Ok that's for my rants. Don't be mistaken, I like the harmony. I think it is the best remote and I can't live without it even after just used for a few weeks for the first time. But whenever I think of these stupid nitty gritty things it made my blood boil.
Edited by hotjt133 - 7/25/13 at 11:29pm
post #884 of 1200
Hotjt133,

Thanks so much for your posts. Yours is actually the first confirmation I've seen that many of the great new features of myharmony for the Ultimate have made their way down to the 600/650/700. I was never expecting this to happen, so this is a huge surprise. So for the first time in a very long time, I logged into myharmony and was completely shocked and amazed. Just as you said, sequences are there, device renaming is there, delays and repeats are there, additional commands can be added to the start/end of activities, nearly every feature from the old software is there. I happily stand corrected. Harmony's dark age is finally over.

As for the features that are still missing, pronto hex import is the top one I'd like to have. If you aren't familiar, pronto hex is sort of an industry standard way to represent remote signals using numbers, hence strings that can be saved in documents, files, emails, whatever. So they are often posted at remotecentral and other sites and can be loaded into many high end remotes. The only way to get missing commands into are harmony is learning or getting support to import the pronto hex for you. Since many commands can't easily be learned, pronto hex is a great way to get these commands. Many of the discrete power and input commands in the harmony database that you take for granted were put there by some user that gave the pronto hex to support or learned them from another remote that they imported the pronto hex into. So, yes, it's an essential feature in any advanced remote, even if it is only used by a few expert users.

While myharmony is still clunky, inefficient and confusing, all in all, I'm very pleased with the changes. I see virtually no reason to use the old software anymore. It might be time to put some of my harmony remotes back in service now that I can finally do 10 step sequences. That's been the main thing holding me back.

EDIT: I checked the myharmony release notes HERE, as I do from time to time, and there is no mention of any of the above features besides adjusting repeats. Nor has anyone else in this forum or the logitech forums mentioned them. So you can see why all this is such a surprise. So thanks again for setting me straight.
Edited by mdavej - 7/26/13 at 6:36am
post #885 of 1200
I have the 650, over the last couple weeks twice the remote has lost control of the cable box. I can't change I channels or anything. I can go into devices and select the cable box to turn it off and back on, and that fixes it. But does anyone have an idea why it's happening? The batteries were replaced not too long ago. And as far as I know I'm not bumping any button. I can still the receiver.
post #886 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by GluedToTheTube View Post

I have the 650, over the last couple weeks twice the remote has lost control of the cable box. I can't change I channels or anything. I can go into devices and select the cable box to turn it off and back on, and that fixes it. But does anyone have an idea why it's happening? The batteries were replaced not too long ago. And as far as I know I'm not bumping any button. I can still the receiver.

Try the factory remote to see if the box is ok. If so it's just the POS 650.
post #887 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by GluedToTheTube View Post

I have the 650, over the last couple weeks twice the remote has lost control of the cable box. I can't change I channels or anything. I can go into devices and select the cable box to turn it off and back on, and that fixes it. But does anyone have an idea why it's happening? The batteries were replaced not too long ago. And as far as I know I'm not bumping any button. I can still the receiver.

Does the real remote to the cable box work always?

 

Do you have a plasma TV or have you tried using it with TV off?

post #888 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Nor has anyone else in this forum or the logitech forums mentioned them.

Probably every advanced user has been converted to the software due to the limitations of myharmony in the past, or have read these limit on this forum without even checking out.

And once a user is on the software, no one will come back to myharmony because their settings are not carried over. You may be a rare one even to check release notes from time to time. But unfortunately they did not publish all release notes, which, to me the product manager should be sacked due to incompetency and missed business opportunity.

I also used software first after reading this forum, but really hated their ancient designations such as laser disk and no blu-ray and 5 step sequence. Once I know myharmony has 10 steps, I painstakenly re-entered all my settings into myharmony. It's worth it.

I think you also need to update your other recent posts on other threads such as the 700 thread to set the record straight.
post #889 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotjt133 View Post


I also used software first after reading this forum, but really hated their ancient designations such as laser disk and no blu-ray and 5 step sequence. Once I know myharmony has 10 steps, I painstakenly re-entered all my settings into myharmony. It's worth it.
 

Thanks guys ... no, I didn't get the memo either.

 

But re-entering everything for two remotes (especially since it seems like I just used the software to setup my 650) ... that sounds painful.

post #890 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotjt133 View Post

I think you also need to update your other recent posts on other threads such as the 700 thread to set the record straight.
Sorry but that's not going to happen. I'm just an end user, not a logitech developer. But feel free to reply to those posts if you feel compelled to update them. They also have users on this board that can respond to any posts they like. My info has been correct for over 3 years up until just a few months ago. Moving forward I'll be using current info.
post #891 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Sorry but that's not going to happen. I'm just an end user, not a logitech developer. But feel free to reply to those posts if you feel compelled to update them. They also have users on this board that can respond to any posts they like. My info has been correct for over 3 years up until just a few months ago. Moving forward I'll be using current info.

No problem. You're not their rep so there is no obligation.

The thing is, mdavej, you have provided many valuable info in this area, and people take your opinions seriously (myself included). I'm just pointing out this in case you want to set the recrod straight but forgot to update other threads. It is up to you really, and if you don't want to do this you can ignore my previous post. Cheers
post #892 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

Try the factory remote to see if the box is ok. If so it's just the POS 650.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

Does the real remote to the cable box work always?

Do you have a plasma TV or have you tried using it with TV off?
I'll try the factory remote next time it happens. Probably will need to put new batteries in it.

I have a LCD tv.
post #893 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotjt133 View Post

Sometimes they overthink what you are doing, and what you SHOULD do, instead of just let you do whatever you want. Here is my list of many nitty gritty things that I can think of.

Bloody hell! Sorry I really sound like a grumpy old man, but the logitech team does have the natrual instinct, and talent to annoy me. Here is another treasure that I just discovered...

I have a very particular setup (too complex to explain in this post in order not to go off topic) that requires another power on command after the fixed power-on activity (you can set it after the input swtiching).

But here again, don't know what they are thinking, the power on command does not exist in the drop down list of the device! Yes, only the power command disappeared.

They must be think why do you need a power command after the power-on sequence. But in my case, I do need it. So now, again, they are forcing me to find an alternative. I have to create another power-on command, by learning its own power-on command! They do have a way to make their users look silly.

Why do they over thinking and over engineering is really beyond my comprehension. It appears they have a very strong tendancy to close any "loop holes" that they think the users don't need. The result is the user is forced to hacking around, spend more time to try to program an otherwise quite simple and legitimate setup. It is a lose-lose situation.

Personally, I would give the harmony a full 5 star rating easily for the hardware and overall design concept. But the software can only get 2 stars, not because they haven't done enough to make a good software, but for they have done too much to ruin it and annoy the end user experience.
Edited by hotjt133 - 7/30/13 at 8:56pm
post #894 of 1200
Hi,

Am new here, and was just wondering if there is any way to be able to use the Harmony 650 to control my Bravia TV and dishTV satellite receiver without actually turning on the receiver first ?

The (minor) problem is when I press the 'Watch TV' button on the 650 it turns ON the receiver, turns ON the TV and sets the TV to HDMI2. However the receiver automatically turns itself on when powered up from the wall, so the 650 actually toggles the receiver OFF, turns ON the TV and sets the TV to HDMI2. Seeing as it would be handy to be able to control the receiver and TV with the 650, is there any way to just turn on the TV and still be able to use the DishTV receiver controls without having to try to turn that on first.

Thanks very much for any help.
post #895 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbee99 View Post

Hi,

Am new here, and was just wondering if there is any way to be able to use the Harmony 650 to control my Bravia TV and dishTV satellite receiver without actually turning on the receiver first ?

The (minor) problem is when I press the 'Watch TV' button on the 650 it turns ON the receiver, turns ON the TV and sets the TV to HDMI2. However the receiver automatically turns itself on when powered up from the wall, so the 650 actually toggles the receiver OFF, turns ON the TV and sets the TV to HDMI2. Seeing as it would be handy to be able to control the receiver and TV with the 650, is there any way to just turn on the TV and still be able to use the DishTV receiver controls without having to try to turn that on first.

Thanks very much for any help.

Sounds like the receiver might be turning on via HDMI-CEC. You can turn that feature off (on TV and amp) and let 650 control it instead.

 

As for your other question ... I assume you want to use the amp most of the time, so I would leave it in the "Watch TV" Activity. One solution would be to just turn off Amp from 650 when you don't want it. Another would be to setup a second Watch-TV Activity (and add to main screen) that the Amp is not part off (only TV and DirecTV).

 

Edit: Just re-read your post. You can control the power-up order (if that helps).

post #896 of 1200
Thanks Tesla1856 for the quick reply, but I think I must apologize for not explaining very clearly -

I don't have an amp - the receiver I was talking about was the satellite receiver/box/thing. I just have a TV, a dvd/bluray player and the satellite box.
I can happily switch between 'Watch TV' and 'Watch a movie', were the Harmony 650 will leave the TV on but switch between sources, and switch on the satbox or DVD player as required.
The satbox has three states, its either without power, on standby or ON, but when I turn on power at the wall the satbox goes into ON, not standby (the TV does go into standby).
So when I press 'Watch TV' the TV goes into ON and changes to the right source, as required, but the satbox, being already ON, turns itself OFF again, which isn't required.
Therefore I was wondering if there was anyway to have access to the satbox commands without actually telling the 650 to turn the satbox ON, because its ON already ?

Thanks again
post #897 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbee99 View Post

So when I press 'Watch TV' the TV goes into ON and changes to the right source, as required, but the satbox, being already ON, turns itself OFF again, which isn't required.
Therefore I was wondering if there was anyway to have access to the satbox commands without actually telling the 650 to turn the satbox ON, because its ON already ?

Thanks again

Set up your Watch TV Activity so that the satellite receiver is ON all the time.
post #898 of 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbee99 View Post

Thanks Tesla1856 for the quick reply, but I think I must apologize for not explaining very clearly -

I don't have an amp - the receiver I was talking about was the satellite receiver/box/thing. I just have a TV, a dvd/bluray player and the satellite box.
I can happily switch between 'Watch TV' and 'Watch a movie', were the Harmony 650 will leave the TV on but switch between sources, and switch on the satbox or DVD player as required.
The satbox has three states, its either without power, on standby or ON, but when I turn on power at the wall the satbox goes into ON, not standby (the TV does go into standby).
So when I press 'Watch TV' the TV goes into ON and changes to the right source, as required, but the satbox, being already ON, turns itself OFF again, which isn't required.
Therefore I was wondering if there was anyway to have access to the satbox commands without actually telling the 650 to turn the satbox ON, because its ON already ?

Thanks again

Not sure what "turn on power at the wall" means. The Harmony 650 will try to keep track of the current power-state of devices, but you can't interfere or change them without remote. You can control how devices are powered (left on, etc.).

post #899 of 1200
Tesla1856, what can I say, I have a habit of not leaving things on standby all the time - if its not being used its turned off at the power point. I presume this makes no difference to the 650 as its switching things between on and standby anyway.
Maybe I should do what Vin says and just leave the satbox on all the time.
But its still a bit annoying when I power things back on and like I say the 650 puts the satbox into standby when I press the 'Watch TV' activity because the satbox is already ON and operating.
Anyway, maybe its a fuss over nothing.

(sorry I'm not quoting previous posts but I can't actually spot an option for quoting anywhere)
post #900 of 1200
If I understand you correctly, arrbee, you want to control power to your sat receiver with the wall switch, not the remote. If you are using myharmony.com to program your remote, try this:

1. Select Devices then your sat receiver.
2. Change Device Settings
3. Select Power settings then Next
4. Select the last option "There are no power buttons on my original remote"
5. Finish

I haven't tested this but it should remove all sat receiver power controls from your activities but allow you to control other functions.
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