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An Aspen Woods Theater. - Page 3

post #61 of 135
1/25/12 at 6:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Remember if you zoom without a lens, you are losing 25-33% of your light output by putting the black bars outside the top and bottom of your screen frame. You will also only have about 830 lines of resolution, fyi. Certainly something to get you by for now, but optimally I am sure you are planning to pick up an anamorphic lens for the long term. I like the JVC projector you picked (actually equivalent to the DLA-RS45 from my understanding), but also take a look at the Epson 6010. I know, I know - I didn't normally associate Epson with high-end quality either, but this projector literally has everything, including an extra bulb, extra warranty and a mount for about $200 more street price over the JVC RS45. But the biggest difference is that it has greater Dynamic Contrast ratio at 200,000:1, is THX certified and can produce up to 2400 lumens of output. This is very important for maintaining proper brightness over time. You could actually start your projector in eco mode and move to normal mode once the bulb life starts to fade. Bulbs last 4-5 thousand hours, fyi.

Thanks for the Epson suggestion. I had a look at it on the Projector Central website and it looks really good. It will also work with the 15' throw distance. I don't think I will be looking at a projector for about a year yet but it is most certainly one of the top contenders now.

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Sconces on each of the doors? Ambitious!!!

Thats the plan if I can figure out a way to get power to the middle of the door in a way that is code compliant. I have a couple of ideas I am still working through.

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If you need extra zones, you can actually link any number of Grafik Eyes together to function as one system. So don't let the 6 zones limit you to your ideal lighting design.

I was hoping not to have to buy a second grafik eye so I think I will play around with the zones and have something (star ceiling or stair lights ) on its own switch.

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The Harmony "blaster" sits by the equipment rack. Only the Grafik Eye would require a long IR emitter "splice" over Cat-5 to directly control the lights. You could have an accessory control as soon as you enter the room - I have in fact done this many times. Just will cost you a bit more in all of the additional Romex wiring plus the low voltage Lutron wiring and control. As an aside, go with the "SG" series of accessory controls (SeeTouch) as you can actually have custom backlit buttons made that can say "Movie" or "Pre-show" or "Clean up", etc. Much nicer than an unlit NTGRX-4S IMHO.

The more I think about it the more I want to go this route. To add the accessory remote all I need at the box is a run of romex and a run of the Lutyon-yellow I have?



Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

On my Grafik eye I have a zone for the screen lights and a zone for the perimeter soffit lights. I don't have a bar so I did not need a separate zone for that. I also put the star ceiling illuminator on a zone. I got the LED illuminator from Fosi and it has to be wired with a separate cord for the lamp so the motor is not dimmed. Then I have sconces and 2 rope lights. I will control my step lighting with a separate dimmer as I will likely have those on when guests are over or off if its just me. To me the step lighting was less important to be able to fully control than the star ceiling and rope lighting since the ceiling was more of a "feature" One comment though on the LED star ceiling is that unless you bring it up slowly it sort of pops on all of a sudden. When it turns off it does so gradually. If you do want to have separate control for the star ceiling that would be fine too.

I don't think I will have the star ceiling dimmable so now it's a toss up between putting the star ceiling or step lights on a seperate switch.

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On the xbox Kinect - I just ordered this yesterday from Monoprice. I don't currently have Kinect or the PS3 move but if I do someday I wanted it to be pre-wired. Hopefully this will do the trick.

Product 6149 - 32ft 10M USB 2.0 A Male to A Female Active Extension / Repeater Cable (Kinect & PS3 Move Compatible Extension)

I think I will order this on my Monoprice order. I think it's better to put it in now and be safe.
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post #62 of 135
1/26/12 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

Thats the plan if I can figure out a way to get power to the middle of the door in a way that is code compliant. I have a couple of ideas I am still working through.

Look at the Von Duprin EPT-10 for code-compliant high-voltage wiring into the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

The more I think about it the more I want to go this route. To add the accessory remote all I need at the box is a run of romex and a run of the Lutyon-yellow I have?

The SG and NTGRX series take ONLY the low voltage control wiring. It runs directly between the 4 pin phoenix connector on the back of the Grafik Eye and the 4 pin connector on the accessory device. When it comes time, I can tell you how to program the Grafik Eye and link the accessory device to your theater Grafik Eye. Although physically connected, the Grafik Eye must be put into "listening" mode and then each accessory device needs programmed to sync to the Eye that is listening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

I don't think I will have the star ceiling dimmable so now it's a toss up between putting the star ceiling or step lights on a seperate switch.

I would put the star ceiling on a separate switch. They do make Maestro switches with built-in IR, fyi. If you home-runned the high voltage wire for the star ceiling dimmer back to an IR enabled switch (like a Maestro) into your equipment closet, I am sure the Harmony IR blaster would be able to control both the Grafik Eye and the switch with seamless integration.
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post #63 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Look at the Von Duprin EPT-10 for code-compliant high-voltage wiring into the door.

I have looked at the EPT-10 but don't know if it will work with wide throw hinges so was looking at the PT-5.

Quote:


I would put the star ceiling on a separate switch. They do make Maestro switches with built-in IR, fyi. If you home-runned the high voltage wire for the star ceiling dimmer back to an IR enabled switch (like a Maestro) into your equipment closet, I am sure the Harmony IR blaster would be able to control both the Grafik Eye and the switch with seamless integration.

This is a good idea. I could also use the extra switch for the step lighting. I think it's going to come down to which set of lights (star ceiling or step) I want to be able to control from the accessory key pad near the entry door. I should also figure out which will be used more.
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post #64 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

I have looked at the EPT-10 but don't know if it will work with wide throw hinges so was looking at the PT-5.

This is a good idea. I could also use the extra switch for the step lighting. I think it's going to come down to which set of lights (star ceiling or step) I want to be able to control from the accessory key pad near the entry door. I should also figure out which will be used more.

My advice would be to put the step on the Grafik Eye with all the other incandescent loads. Like Stockmonkey said, it is highly unlikely that you will be dimming the star ceiling - only on or off which is perfect for a separate switch. If you think about it, you are more likely to have the step lights on in a darkened theater then the star ceiling. It is a safety issue, so having them on low and tied to your scene selector is the way to go. The only "local" switch you have would be tied to the Grafik Eye, so having access to push a button to turn on a scene with the step lights is FAR more important than having a switch in a separate room ONLY accessible via remote control to get the step lights on - wouldn't be a good plan.

As for the PT-5 or the EPT-10.....virtually anything you get will be for standard width doors. Very little is made for extra-thick doors. Both will work, you just have to noodle out how you can effectively mount the device toward the swing side of the door to not overreach the max extension of the device.
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post #65 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

My advice would be to put the step on the Grafik Eye with all the other incandescent loads. Like Stockmonkey said, it is highly unlikely that you will be dimming the star ceiling - only on or off which is perfect for a separate switch. If you think about it, you are more likely to have the step lights on in a darkened theater then the star ceiling. It is a safety issue, so having them on low and tied to your scene selector is the way to go. The only "local" switch you have would be tied to the Grafik Eye, so having access to push a button to turn on a scene with the step lights is FAR more important than having a switch in a separate room ONLY accessible via remote control to get the step lights on - wouldn't be a good plan.
.

I do dim my star ceiling. I think the star ceiling looks the most natural when it is dimmed down to about 80% brightness and it does not light up the room as much. I figure that I'll only use my step lights when I have visitors so that would be a small percentage of the total usage. My step lighting will be on its own remote control switch, but will still be able to be turned off and on manually from within the room.
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post #66 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:42am
I didn't realize you dimmed the ceiling....but of course you have a FOSI flamethrower for a light source! You have a switch for your step physically in the room and I think that makes the difference.

I would still say having a switch in the room that can activate the step lights is more important than a switch that will turn on / off the star ceiling. The Maestro IR can dim as well as doing on/off depending on what type of switch is purchased, so he could still dim the star ceiling with ease if the switch is located outside the room.
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post #67 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:49am
My star ceiling motor is also on a separate switch but in that case I hooked it up to an occupancy sensor. Since you cant really tell when its on or off I hooked up the occupancy sensor to turn it off when nobody is in the room. I've accidentally left it on for days in the past.
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post #68 of 135
1/26/12 at 7:38pm
Thread Starter 
I've thought about this all day and am only slightly closer to a decision. The reason to move the grafikeye to the equipment room is to keep a cleaner look in the theater and reduce the size of any penetrations through the drywall. I'd like to keep any added switches in the equipment room.
Having said that I need to decide if I'm more likely to want the star ceiling or the step lights controlled by the grafikeye eye. Having the accessory controller at when I come in I'll be able to have a couple of pre selected scenes programmed to choose from. The step lights will only be needed when the lights are down and that will happen when I'm sitting with the remote close by.
On the other hand all of the above reasons hold true for the ceiling as well. Ugh, I think I'm over thinking this and just need to make a decision and go with it. Right, the step lights will be on their own switch. Done.
thank you for the suggestions guys.

TMcG, in another thread you mentioned an RGB LED rope light you like. Which one is it?

Stockmonkey, I didn't realize that the star ceiling light sources required 2 switches, one for the light and one for the motor. Is this specific to fosi or is it typical of all of them?
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post #69 of 135
1/26/12 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post


Stockmonkey, I didn't realize that the star ceiling light sources required 2 switches, one for the light and one for the motor. Is this specific to fosi or is it typical of all of them?

The fosi system has a wheel that rotates to create the twinkling effect as well as the shooting stars. I'm not sure if dimming the motor will just slow it down or damage it. I discussed the dimming option with Fosi and they said they could wire it so each one had their own power source so the bulb could be dimmed. I forgot to mention our discussion when I ordered so it came with only one cord. Rather than ship it back I separated the power myself.

I'm not sure how other systems handle the twinkling effect and I don't think the only options for shooting stars are a separate module. One thing I did not like about the Fosi was the shooting stars went off with every rotation of the wheel, I modified my illuminator so that the shooting stars would only go off about every 15 minutes or so. I have the details in my thread if you are going with the Fosi system.
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post #70 of 135
1/27/12 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

My star ceiling motor is also on a separate switch but in that case I hooked it up to an occupancy sensor. Since you cant really tell when its on or off I hooked up the occupancy sensor to turn it off when nobody is in the room. I've accidentally left it on for days in the past.

I'm glad you mentioned this as I will probably end up going with the FOSI system and requesting the separate power lead to the motor as you recommended so the light source can be dimmed independently if needed. I can see where the motor running would definitely be an issue. Perhaps I can ask to hard wire the motor portion with 110v and then kill the power source to the motor via a triggered outlet on my power protection device.

And this . . . is why I subscribe to AVS Forum!! Thanks for sharing!
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post #71 of 135
1/27/12 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

I've thought about this all day and am only slightly closer to a decision. The reason to move the grafikeye to the equipment room is to keep a cleaner look in the theater and reduce the size of any penetrations through the drywall. I'd like to keep any added switches in the equipment room.
Having said that I need to decide if I'm more likely to want the star ceiling or the step lights controlled by the grafikeye eye. Having the accessory controller at when I come in I'll be able to have a couple of pre selected scenes programmed to choose from. The step lights will only be needed when the lights are down and that will happen when I'm sitting with the remote close by.
On the other hand all of the above reasons hold true for the ceiling as well. Ugh, I think I'm over thinking this and just need to make a decision and go with it. Right, the step lights will be on their own switch. Done.
thank you for the suggestions guys.

TMcG, in another thread you mentioned an RGB LED rope light you like. Which one is it?

Stockmonkey, I didn't realize that the star ceiling light sources required 2 switches, one for the light and one for the motor. Is this specific to fosi or is it typical of all of them?

There is RGB LED rope light available, but I think you were talking about one of my posts regarding the RGB LED light strips that have are very thin and have a 3M adhesive backing for mounting. Stewart Filmscreen has a device called an ILC-100 with an E-Node controller which will allow for real time intensity and color control of almost limitless zones of RGB LED strip lighting.

I have been considering adding LED accent lighting to whatever theater I build for quite some time. I don't know if I recall the exact post, but my plan is to purchase a relatively neutral colored glass, onyx, alabaster, acrylic or some sort of translucent substrate and then have the ability to backlight it with any color I want - and even a random, slow-moving automatic color selection for the pre-show. You can even get crazy with the stuff and have the system "listen" to the music and flash the different zones of light accordingly ala windows media player style.

The ILC-100 and associated power supply are about $600. The real kick in the butt with the system is that the E-Node device is almost $2000. This doesn't even include the lights or wires that go between the lights. So I am currently looking at other alternatives in the commercial field, such as those that light professional stage shows. Heck, if people can get a 4000 watt Europower amp (from the commercial field) to power four 18" IB subs for just a few hundred bucks, hopefully the same equivalent can be found for LED lighting control.
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post #72 of 135
1/27/12 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I'm glad you mentioned this as I will probably end up going with the FOSI system and requesting the separate power lead to the motor as you recommended so the light source can be dimmed independently if needed. I can see where the motor running would definitely be an issue. Perhaps I can ask to hard wire the motor portion with 110v and then kill the power source to the motor via a triggered outlet on my power protection device.

And this . . . is why I subscribe to AVS Forum!! Thanks for sharing!

By the way - you will have to go with the LED illuminator - the HID lamp cannot be dimmed.
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post #73 of 135
1/27/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

I never thought about breaking off the star ceiling by itself. Here is what I'm now thinking for zones.

Zone 1 - Green- Perimeter - 12 50W 3" halogen lights
Zone 2 - Yellow - Stage - 5 50W 3" halogen lights
Zone 3 - Red - Sconces - 8 75-100w Sconces
Zone 4 - Cyan - Bar - 1 50W 3" halogen lights
Zone 5 - Rope Lighting - RGB LED lighting - 1 run for each section of ceiling
Zone 6 - Step Lighting - 2 step lights
Separate switch for Star Ceiling.

I haven't quite decided which zone the sconces at the bar will go on but I'm leaning toward leaving them where they are.

Makes sense. Make sure you check the min and max load ratings on the GE. Min might affect the step lighting and 8x100W *may* be greater than max ... need to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

Are there any other advantages to the QS system? I am thinking of using a Harmony remote to control everything. From what I understand I would then need something to blast IR everywhere. Which brings me to another point. Originally I was going to have the Grafik Eye main panel just as you walked in the door. I'm now thinking of moving the main control panel to the equipment room and putting one of the grafik eye key pads at the door location.

The QS is the newer line. It has a few extra feature mostly around timed operation but the main reason I mentioned it was for the hard wired IR hookup rather than having to rely on blasting. Your ultimate location will determine whether this is important.
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post #74 of 135
1/27/12 at 2:10pm
If I remember right the max on a zone for the GE was something like 1100 watts. That was another thing I forgot to mention on the step lights is that the lights I was planning to use have a 7w bulb (14w total). The Grafik eye will not fully dim those. My LED rope light does not fully dim so I was planning on adding a dummy load to them. This is what I was going to try.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...m=ABN3Q1DBQPIR
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post #75 of 135
1/27/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

The fosi system has a wheel that rotates to create the twinkling effect as well as the shooting stars. I'm not sure if dimming the motor will just slow it down or damage it. I discussed the dimming option with Fosi and they said they could wire it so each one had their own power source so the bulb could be dimmed. I forgot to mention our discussion when I ordered so it came with only one cord. Rather than ship it back I separated the power myself.

Just one man's opinion: Prior to building it I wanted to be able to dim my star ceiling. After thinking hard about it and having lived with it for a while I think on/off is adequate since my main motivation was to make it realistic. That required a one-time setting of brightness -- achieved with filters in the illuminator. I typically turn it off for watching movies and on for entry and music and I don't have a use for dimming. Stockmonkey2000's idea to randomize the shooting star is a great one though.
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post #76 of 135
1/27/12 at 2:24pm
My intention in dimming the star ceiling was to have a pre movie scene that very gradually dimmed the amber rope light and very gradually increase the star brightness so it appeared like a sunset turning to dusk. That is why I titled my thread "Desert Sunset". Not sure how that is going to work out in practice though.

I do agree with you though, I'm sure on/off would be just fine. Mine is more of a fun thing I wanted to try more than something I will use often.
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post #77 of 135
1/27/12 at 5:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Makes sense. Make sure you check the min and max load ratings on the GE. Min might affect the step lighting and 8x100W *may* be greater than max ... need to check.

stockmonkey2000
If I remember right the max on a zone for the GE was something like 1100 watts. That was another thing I forgot to mention on the step lights is that the lights I was planning to use have a 7w bulb (14w total). The Grafik eye will not fully dim those. My LED rope light does not fully dim so I was planning on adding a dummy load to them. This is what I was going to try.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...m=ABN3Q1DBQPIR

According to the GraffikEye installation manual the Unit Max is 2000W and the Zone Range is 25W - 800W. I'm right at the max for the sconces so may have to knock them back to 75W each. I'll also have to double check the wattage for the rope lights and may have to try out stockmonkey's solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

The QS is the newer line. It has a few extra feature mostly around timed operation but the main reason I mentioned it was for the hard wired IR hookup rather than having to rely on blasting. Your ultimate location will determine whether this is important.

The hard wired IR would be a nice feature no matter where the unit was located. Then all I would have to worry about a blaster for is the equipment. I'll have to check if Lutron makes an IR switch that has hardwired IR as well.
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post #78 of 135
1/30/12 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
Not too much visable progress over the weekend. I was pulling more cable and finished putting the whisper clips on the ceiling. If you were following along earlier in the thread I kept the spacing at 16"x48" due to the added weight of the star ceiling. I also started re-wiring most of the lighting for the theater.

I decided that I was going to build a hush box for the projector so I started building that.


This section will be finished like the rest of the already built soffits with dd+gg but will allow me to run all the necessary wires/conduit/cooling to the correct area now. It's 20" deep by 30" wide and should allow me a throw distance of between 15' and 15'6". I connected to the soffit enclosing the beam, and also to the ceiling using a couple of DC-04 clips. I will build the rest of the box during the finish work.
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post #79 of 135
1/31/12 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
Guys and/or girls I need some opinions.

For the last week I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how to put a sconce on a door. None of the Electric Power Transfer options I can find are CSA approved for use in Canada. I called the city inspection department today and I'm pretty sure the guy thought I was crazy. Anyway, after describing what I was trying to do he said that in 33 years he'd never had that question and was pretty sure it would not pass code. So, unless Dennis is feeling generous and divulges his secrets I'm going to have to change the sconces. I think have a couple of options:
1 - remove the sconce on the entry door and adjust the one on the equipment room door. I think this may leave the room looking unbalanced when the door is closed.
2 - remove the sconce on the entry door and the one on the opposite wall and adjust the one on the equipment room door.
3 - remove all the sconces and replace them with pot lights in the soffits.

So, which option would you choose? Or is there another option I haven't considered.
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post #80 of 135
1/31/12 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

So, which option would you choose? Or is there another option I haven't considered.

Do you have sconces picked out yet? Have you looked into 12v sconces? (running low voltage through a transfer box shouldn't be an issue).
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post #81 of 135
1/31/12 at 7:32pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Moggie, i dont have them picked out and I didn't even know there were low voltage sconces. I'll have to look into them. I assume there won't be a problem with the GraffikEye.
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post #82 of 135
1/31/12 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesB77 View Post

Thanks Moggie, i dont have them picked out and I didn't even know there were low voltage sconces. I'll have to look into them. I assume there won't be a problem with the GraffikEye.

I'm not sure there is a huge selection so don't get too excited. A compatible (dimmable) power supply can be controlled via the GE. If you are ambitious you could modify existing lighting to convert to low voltage.

Just thinking out loud...
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post #83 of 135
2/1/12 at 7:29am
Thread Starter 
I've found a bit but you're right, the selection isn't great. Do you have any idea of how to convert standard sconces to low voltage?

Any idea how to run a low voltage circuit as well? I've found an indoor transformer that is rated to 750W and is dimmable. Am I correct in thinking I run the 120V to the GraffikEye then run one of the zones to the transformer and run the lighting from there?
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post #84 of 135
2/7/12 at 5:16pm
Hey James,

I just got through ur thread again.

Man, u guys all have me thinking about a star ceiling now. I didn't ever think about it till now. Stockmonkey's build of it put it in my head but I just figured I couldn't handle it, but then I got reading about u doing it too and him wit hthe scene dimming gradual pre movie and all and now it's really in my head.

I also got to revisit the soffit thing. i was just not going to build one cause of the lower ceiling area in the front of the room by the stage but maybe I can get away with it if my flex only needs to be 5" plus the insulation around it. I might be able to pull something off.

I'm glad I came back to this and read it again!

Thanks for stopping by my build also and thanks for the help today!

jim
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post #85 of 135
2/20/12 at 5:37pm
Thread Starter 
After what feels like an eternity of pulling cable and finishing up little things where not much progress can be shown I finally had a good weekend of visible progress.

I started out yesterday sealing up the IB chamber with acoustic caulk between the chamber sealing and the top plate of the front wall.



From there we moved on to putting up the 3/4" OSB on the front wall. Normally you would put the ceiling up first and then the walls so that the walls can help provide a little bit of support. I wanted to make sure the IB chamber was absolutely sealed so had to do it this way.



Finished putting up all the channel...



...and on to the ceiling. The lift in the picture was the only one they had left at Home Depot. When I was renting it the guys said it was the "Big One, it's pretty much the same but you may have to lift the sheets a bit higher to load them." When we set it up I found out he wasn't kidding. We had to lift the sheets up six and a half feet just to get them on the thing. It was a good thing we didn't have many sheets to lift.



After the ceiling was up we moved on to the side walls including mounting the boxes for sconces. Here is the wire pulled and acoustic caulking applied.



And the box installed. The boxes are 1.5" deep so with 5/8" drywall and the 1" for OC703 they will be almost flush with the finished wall.



This is how day 1 ended

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post #86 of 135
2/20/12 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
Today we finished up the front wall and stuffed the IB chamber with insulation.





We also continued to sheet the walls and around the beam. The day ended with a bit of a backward step. I'm going to put the doors in the theatre in before any of the sheeting so that I can butt up the OSB and drywall tight to the door. The door I bought is a kit that you put together yourself, i.e. the door slab, hinges, jambs, etc all comes as a kit but you have to assemble it. I went to test fit a couple of things and realised it wasn't fitting. The jamb was too large for the opening. I figured out when I was doing rough framing I had a brain fart and framed all the openings with only 1" extra instead of too. I now have to take down the jack studs for all 5 doors, trim 1/2 an inch off and re-install them. I guess it could be worse, I could have finished drywall.
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post #87 of 135
2/24/12 at 3:05pm
Lookin' good James. Will follow along for the rest of your build.
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post #88 of 135
2/24/12 at 7:24pm
Nice progress. Seeing the inside of that ib chamber brings back memories.
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post #89 of 135
2/27/12 at 9:07am
Thread Starter 
I'm not really looking forward to getting back in there to hook up the subs. It was hot and eerily quiet. Plus, I didn't put an access door in so I'll have to contort myself through one of the driver openings.
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post #90 of 135
2/27/12 at 9:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMiller1975 View Post

Lookin' good James. Will follow along for the rest of your build.

Thanks Jason. Just took a look at your build which looks quite interesting as well.
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