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Most unstable computer in 15 years: H55 and Clarkdale

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
I just put together a new HTPC built around the H55 and Intel 661 processor. This is the most unstable computer I have ever built in over 15 years. I can't even remember a time when I have seen any computer that has more problems than this one. I have spent every weekend for 2 months now trying different setups/configurations to get this thing stable. When I see this level of instability, it can usually be traced back to the memory but I have run this memory through memtest86 for 24 hours straight with no errors. This computer will blue screen just sitting there doing nothing (at least nothing that is user caused). My problems always seem to be related to the Windows Desktop Manager or Media Center. Make sense since this is an HTPC.

Every time I test a new config I start with a new vanilla install of Windows 7. While Win 7 32bit seems to run smoother, it also tends to crash more. Win 7 64bit gives me issues with recording TV and also tends to crash a lot. I've tried fail safe BIOS settings and Optimized BIOS settings. The only thing that I can say for sure is that the HPET setting in the BIOS definately causes the system to crash...usually on boot up.

I can't nail this down to the board, the processor, or the memory. My wife calls me every single week with a new problem with the computer. Since it's attached to the main TV, this is a huge problem for me. Has anyone else been having a hard time getting this type of setup stable?

Here are some standard things I setup with my hardware:

Win 7 32 or 64 bit
4GB RAM
Intel 661
Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2H (F5)
2TB drive
2x Avermedia USB hybrid tuners

Software:
Media Browser
Arcsoft TMT3 1.70
Virtual Clone Drive

Drivers:
Intel HD Graphics v 2086
Intel Chipset software v 1025
Intel MEI v1215
Intel Rapid Storage v1014

-I have tested a vanilla install with just the Intel MEI and Graphics drivers only installed. I have also tested every combination of each driver. I have tested the last 2 or 3 versions of each driver. I have tested the base drivers that ship with the board. In every case, crashes. There appears to be no combination of drivers that make this setup more stable.

I had the exact same software setup on my last i7 920 HTPC. It was rock solid. I am at my wits end.
post #2 of 50
Don't know what to tell you other then I've run an Asus H55 board with an i3 stable for a couple months now. No issues.

I think it has to be a bad piece of hardware somewhere, even a bad power supply or the tuners. I think your only option at this point is to replace each part one by one until you find the cause.
post #3 of 50
ditto - rock solid with Asus H55 MB and i3.
post #4 of 50
I'd vote for a possibly unstable(underpowered?) PSU. Does Event Viewer give any clues to what is causing the BSODs?
post #5 of 50
Agree with Sclaws, I would suspect the power supply.
post #6 of 50
Hmm, for some reason, I'm seeing a lot of Newegg reviewers having trouble with that specific board - and it's not just the idiots who paired it with i5-750 and are expecting video out. There's some people who seem to genuinely have valid issues when using the board with Clarkdales.
post #7 of 50
Thread Starter 
I guess it's possible to have a faulty PSU but definately not underpowered. I keep the machine running on power saver mode and all my BIOS settings are geared towards power saving vs. performance. This CPU runs around 5W of power while using media center. It is constantly blowing cold air from the case because it runs so cool.

Here is the hardware I have:
1 BD drive
1 2TB hard drive
2x 2GB DDR3 RAM
1 Intel 661 CPU
2x Avermedia USB tuners
1 MicroFusion Remote 350 (350W PSU)

I run the Power Supply Calc here and even under 100% load the PSU requirements are around 180W...almost 1/2 of the max of the PSU. Also, if it was PSU related, I would think it would crash when I did something that was a bit more intensive. For instance, I got a BSOD last night by right clicking on an item in my start menu. Sometimes it will just BSOD while idle. Sometimes it is while recording. There isn't anything consistent.

The event viewer usually states that DWM.exe or ehshell.exe crashed. I've been running with the Windows Desktop Manager disabled. This seems to help but is something I SHOULDN'T HAVE to do. Every other machine I have/use that runs Windows 7 runs with DWM no problem. This is on top of all the other issues I have with this setup. If interested you can read them here.
post #8 of 50
I would say considering the headaches that it would be more than worth it to bring it to a good shop and let them pull out the parts and test each one. That would be cheaper and easier than trying to test this yourself or having to send back parts not knowing which isnt working. I build my own and hate not being able to fix things myself but 2x recently I bought my main gaming rig in and my office computer and both times not only did they fix it that same day but barely charged me to test things and in both cases found things that not in a million years would I have been able to fix myself. Well worth it. This is after I spent countless hours trying to fix it myself never being able to narrow it down and in a single afternoon they had fixed it. Its easy for them they have known components that work and can just swap out suspected parts on yours. Quick. Easy. 100% accuracy.
post #9 of 50
Have you tried running a chkdsk /r on it (pre boot) and have it look over your hard drive for bad blocks/sectors? If your computer is reinstalling windows over the same location that has a portion of the hard drive it would be like leaving out some random OS files from the install.
post #10 of 50
have you tried a program like "who crashed" to give insight to the crashes?
post #11 of 50
There are very few components in the system, so it shouldn't be too hard to trouble shoot. The first step would be to start with only enough hardware to run the PC and install Windows. Make sure all the cables are fully seated. Leave out the tuner cards and use only one stick of memory. I would let Windows install whatever updates and default drivers it does on its own. Then see how stable it is doing nothing, or basic tasks.

If it still isn't stable then you can try swapping memory modules, or trying them in a different socket. If there is no way to get things stable with a minimal set of hardware and a bare OS install, then you probably have a MB issue, but I suspect it's some sort of driver interaction problem.
post #12 of 50
It sounds like a motherboard issue - a faulty chipset perhaps. Have you tried RMA'ing the motherboard if the CPU checks out in Prime and the Memory in memtest?
post #13 of 50
Basic troubleshooting.

1. Assume nothing.

2. Eliminate any environmental vectors, IE temperature or bad power.

3. Remove as many variables as possible (extra cards, drives, etc).

4. Still crashes - start swapping core parts - PSU is always a good place to start.

5. Doesn't crash - start adding in parts one by one.

Some tools:
chkdsk - do a full reboot scan.
memory diagnostics
temp monitoring software - Something that will tell you when your CPU/chipset is overheating (which could be the cause of your problem too).
post #14 of 50
Sounds like RAM to me, check one stick at a time to see if you can isolate it to one or the other.
post #15 of 50
U can always try a Linux flavor to see if it is indeed hardware related or not
http://www.mythbuntu.org/


I do thin it is a hardware issue if there are constant blue screens, start with event viewer and then a new PSU.
post #16 of 50
I had that motherboard and couldn't get it to boot with 4g of ram. We tested the ram and it was fine. I RMA'd the mobo and got an asus H55 board and everything has been pretty good so far. I have had one crash in media center using media browser though. I think it was because my internet connection was down at the time, not sure.
post #17 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK1967 View Post

I had that motherboard and couldn't get it to boot with 4g of ram. We tested the ram and it was fine. I RMA'd the mobo and got an asus H55 board and everything has been pretty good so far. I have had one crash in media center using media browser though. I think it was because my internet connection was down at the time, not sure.

I have seen other posts about problems with 4GB of RAM being a problem. My experience has shown that irregular behavior is usually tied to bad memory. I haven't tested with just one stick but that may be a good idea to test with.

One HUGE problem is that this thing runs my main TV and I travel during the week. My wife/kids would kill me if I didn't leave them a TV to use for a week at a time. I have to test stuff around their schedule and on weekends only so that limits what I am able to do.

I have and use the Ultimate Boot disk with all the motherboard/cpu/memory/hard drive testing apps on it. I've run the memtest one all night and briefly run cpu test. Maybe I should work on those tests.

Traditionally, I've been able to figure out the problem component by eliminating everything that works. The things that don't work would manifest themselves easily after running the standard set of tests.
post #18 of 50
I think the obvious stuff has been covered, so I'd second RMA'ing the mobo. Personally, I'd be upfront with the vendor. Just let 'em know you've checked everything and narrowed the possibilities down until the mobo is the mos likely cause. I'd say you've put more effort into identifying the problem than most people would before sending it back.

If you do RMA it, I'd consider a different mobo based on the previous post regarding reviews on that board.
post #19 of 50
It could be a voltage issue with the memory. sometimes it wont boot unless its the manufactured specified voltage as that may be different than stock voltage settings.
post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancia View Post

I have seen other posts about problems with 4GB of RAM being a problem. My experience has shown that irregular behavior is usually tied to bad memory. I haven't tested with just one stick but that may be a good idea to test with.

While I'm very new to all this, my friend isn't and he's the one who tested my ram for me and said it was good. Then he pulled the mushkin ram out of his "bad ass" machine and tried it in my gigabyte board and we had the same problem. Basically it would boot with one stick of ram in either of the two memory slots, it didn't matter which stick of ram we tried, it just wouldn't work with both installed.

When I got the new asus mother board, we put the same ddr3 gskil ripjaws ram in it and it booted perfectly, we set it to run at the rated 1600mhz and everything has been fine since.
post #21 of 50
Have you tried disabling Turboboost, to see if it's somehow related to varying clock speeds?

My understanding of these chips is that Turboboost is disabled when you overclock. In your case perhaps trying a mild underclocking would be more interesting (assuming that underclocking also disables the Turboboost).
post #22 of 50
My Core i5-661 and DH55TC motherboard can stay up for weeks in W7 64 bit without rebooting or having any problems.

I would suspect the RAM and/or the motherboard. I tried one type of RAM in my motherboard and it completely passed memtest86 on the system, but as soon as it went into 1920x1080 resolution, it would bsod/reboot within seconds, or maybe a minute or two at the most. I changed the RAM, and everything has been rock solid since.
post #23 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

My Core i5-661 and DH55TC motherboard can stay up for weeks in W7 64 bit without rebooting or having any problems.

I would suspect the RAM and/or the motherboard. I tried one type of RAM in my motherboard and it completely passed memtest86 on the system, but as soon as it went into 1920x1080 resolution, it would bsod/reboot within seconds, or maybe a minute or two at the most. I changed the RAM, and everything has been rock solid since.

That sounds like my last i7 build...rock solid. I think I will try the 1 stick of memory test this weekend and see if it is more stable.
post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancia View Post

For instance, I got a BSOD last night by right clicking on an item in my start menu. Sometimes it will just BSOD while idle.

I saw your Newegg review. Is it fair to blame the motherboard when you haven't isolated the problem yet? My S2H HTPC is running well with 4GB RAM. There are some minor issues but none I can pin on this mobo. Yours could be defective. Or, there could be a systemic problem, but I don't see that, at least not yet.
I don't work for Gigabyte and I'm not the "Newegg Review Police", just thinking you should have sent the mobo back a month ago, or whenever you ran out of hardware troubleshooting options. You could be a happy camper today.
post #25 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechbeav View Post

I saw your Newegg review. Is it fair to blame the motherboard when you haven't isolated the problem yet? My S2H HTPC is running well with 4GB RAM. There are some minor issues but none I can pin on this mobo. Yours could be defective. Or, there could be a systemic problem, but I don't see that, at least not yet.
I don't work for Gigabyte and I'm not the "Newegg Review Police", just thinking you should have sent the mobo back a month ago, or whenever you ran out of hardware troubleshooting options. You could be a happy camper today.

I posted that because I can't get gigabyte to respond to my problems. There is no phone number and it takes weeks to respond over their "web forms". I saw that they were pretty active with responding to customer reviews so that is why I did it.

I've also called Denon and Intel...multiple times. Everyone points the finger at everyone else. I've spent countless hours already troubleshooting this machine. If you read ANY of my other posts listed here, MY EFFORT has helped a number of other people with some of the EXACT same problems. So yea, I think it's plenty fair that I light a fire under someone. Thanks for the lecture though on doing my due diligence.
post #26 of 50
My S2H has simply been reliable with 4GB RAM from their QVL. HPET is set to 64-bit for the benefit of W7-64 however I also boot to XP-32 without changing the setting. I do not use 7MC but rather XBMC with both OS. Gigabyte support has typically responded to questions within two or three days. Which form are you using? There is an F6 beta BIOS available via station-drivers but it seems more likely the crash problem lies elsewhere.

As for the audio problem, sometimes it just comes down to matching devices 'cause even with standards there can be incompatability due to dodgy implementation. So, you may have to cut your losses time-wise and decide which device is preferable to keep (Denon AVR or Intel AV) and replace the other. Did you try or consider a 5450 instead if still keen on the CPU platform?

Why did you guys choose the 661 for HTPC?
post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechbeav View Post

I saw your Newegg review. Is it fair to blame the motherboard when you haven't isolated the problem yet? My S2H HTPC is running well with 4GB RAM. There are some minor issues but none I can pin on this mobo. Yours could be defective. Or, there could be a systemic problem, but I don't see that, at least not yet.
I don't work for Gigabyte and I'm not the "Newegg Review Police", just thinking you should have sent the mobo back a month ago, or whenever you ran out of hardware troubleshooting options. You could be a happy camper today.

Before I buy a product I have no experience with I always read all of the 1 & 2 egg reviews and it's easy to tell the "tech n00bs" from the people with legitimate problems. It sucks that people write the terrible reviews for products when it's their own lack of experience or testing. They blame the hardware which then unfailry turns a more novice builder away. It's really too bad Newegg let's people who dont buy products from them add reviews but they don't allow moderated tech responses from other users (other than the manufacturer). Amazon does and it sometimes is so much easier to get a "fair" review of a product because of it.
post #28 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciúrus Arcânus View Post

My S2H has simply been reliable with 4GB RAM from their QVL. HPET is set to 64-bit for the benefit of W7-64 however I also boot to XP-32 without changing the setting. I do not use 7MC but rather XBMC with both OS. Gigabyte support has typically responded to questions within two or three days. Which form are you using? There is an F6 beta BIOS available via station-drivers but it seems more likely the crash problem lies elsewhere.

As for the audio problem, sometimes it just comes down to matching devices 'cause even with standards there can be incompatability due to dodgy implementation. So, you may have to cut your losses time-wise and decide which device is preferable to keep (Denon AVR or Intel AV) and replace the other. Did you try or consider a 5450 instead if still keen on the CPU platform?

Why did you guys choose the 661 for HTPC?

I choose the 661 because I wanted a bit more horsepower than the other CPU/GPUs. I planned on doing my rips and conversions on this machine.

As far as the 600 series, I loved the thermals of the design. Very low power and would be put into a small case without the problems created by installing a full sized riser board. Most small cases have smaller PSUs so I didn't want the extra power draw with a separate video card.

My last i7 build was rock solid, handled bitstreaming no problem, full audio but ran really hot and the case was the size of a large AVR. I didn't want that this time.

RMAing anything from this machine is really problematic because it is about a 3 week process to get an RMA, send it, receive it, resend new parts, install new parts. In the meantime, I have a wife and 2 four year olds without TV/movies/dvr. That doesn't make for a happy wife which makes daddy VERY unhappy. A week without American Idol for my wife is like a week without air...so when I RMA something, I need to be absolute sure it IS the problem. If not, I have just inflicted weeks worth of pain and aggrevation from my wife only to repeat it by RMAing something else.
post #29 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcorona76 View Post

Before I buy a product I have no experience with I always read all of the 1 & 2 egg reviews and it's easy to tell the "tech n00bs" from the people with legitimate problems. It sucks that people write the terrible reviews for products when it's their own lack of experience or testing. They blame the hardware which then unfailry turns a more novice builder away. It's really too bad Newegg let's people who dont buy products from them add reviews but they don't allow moderated tech responses from other users (other than the manufacturer). Amazon does and it sometimes is so much easier to get a "fair" review of a product because of it.

I have been building machines for over 15 years and can tell you I have identified problems FOR manufacturers well before they publicly acknowledge the issue. I've worked directly with Microsoft .NET creators a year before they even released the first version to the public. I've identified problems with a batch of resistors Compaq used on a revision of their boards that caused "excessive" noise along the bus. I spent time on the phone with OS product managers at Microsoft...even had correspondence with Balmer. I exhaust all my resources and I'm really good at my job. I'm not sure if you are calling me a noob or not but I am about as far away from noob as it gets when it comes to computer hardware. It's hard to read the "tone" of your email so I appologize in advance if I read into this.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancia View Post

I have been building machines for over 15 years and can tell you I have identified problems FOR manufacturers well before they publicly acknowledge the issue. I've worked directly with Microsoft .NET creators a year before they even released the first version to the public. I've identified problems with a batch of resistors Compaq used on a revision of their boards that caused "excessive" noise along the bus. I spent time on the phone with OS product managers at Microsoft...even had correspondence with Balmer. I exhaust all my resources and I'm really good at my job. I'm not sure if you are calling me a noob or not but I am about as far away from noob as it gets when it comes to computer hardware. It's hard to read the "tone" of your email so I appologize in advance if I read into this.

I didnt read your review and dont really care to since I am NOT in the market for an Intel board right now. I have no idea if your review would come off as "noob" or someone with a genuine problem at all. I've been in the "business" a little longer than you (just based on your 15 years) and the coming of the internet age has made shopping for hardware so much easier that it was when I built 286's. There's a wealth of knowledge out there but sometimes people put false knowledge in the place of useful knowledge....that's the other side of the internet that's not so pretty.

Again, I'm not passing judgment on you at all. I'm sure you, like I, have learned that some of those low ratings are legit while some are not and you know what information is valuable to you to make an informed purchase.

If I were in your position I'd have sent that motherboard back for RMA, or exchange, the day I started running into those problems. In all the time I've been doing this I've never had the bad luck of getting a defective CPU and RAM problems tend to manifest themselves as BSOD's (with Windows usually showing the same addressed memory space every time) so I'd have bet the house on the motherboard being flaky...which I have experienced more times than I can count.
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