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Soldering Irons: which is best for the job?

post #1 of 39
3/25/10 at 9:17am
Thread Starter 
Anyone have recommendations for which soldering iron to get?

After much consideration, I chose to use Military Spec 8 gauge wire (teflon jacket and silver coated copper wire). The wire is a bit like coat hanger, but that can be advantageous as well. In any case, it was very inexpensive at APEX Jr. and it is a rather small diameter for 8 guage wire, so I chose to use it.

(Also, since the LMS 5400 Ultra drivers use push terminals, pre-tinned wires or litz wires are not desireable.) That being said I could have used 14 guage lamp cord and been fine.

To the heart of the matter: My soldering gun is in Pittsburgh PA, so it is time to buy a new one. I need to solder this 8 guage wire to Cardas binding posts:

http://www.soniccraft.com/products/c...ardas_ccgr.htm

It is fairly thick wire and the binding post 'tabs' are essentially very thick and also have deep recessed holes to push the wire deep into those holes. I would imagine it would be hard to get too hot and also hard to overheat (especially with the teflon jacket of the wire). Should I use one of those mini torch butane type soldering 'guns'... or what sort of electric gun? Any preference for this particular application?

On another note, it seems that I will be able to solder the wire before mounting the binding posts since I can feed the individual wire through the cabinet hole and then mount the binding post... seems much easier to do it that way than solder inside the box....
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post #2 of 39
3/25/10 at 9:58am
Both will work, i usualy use a mini torch type on 10 gauge and larger and a 35w electric for smaller stuff.
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post #3 of 39
3/25/10 at 11:06am
Get a Weller iron and you'll never need another one... I used to have one, left it out once in lab at school and it was gone. I just grabbed a Stahl from PE on sale for $13... it'll do what I need it to until it breaks I guess.
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post #4 of 39
3/25/10 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
My guess is that it would be really hard to overheat in my case?

What makes for the strongest bond? I'm always afraid of a solder joint just deciding to seperate or break off at some point in the future... Is there any way to have 100% confidence in a solder joint?

What is the key to making a good solder joint again? I'm thinking of getting it super hot since I don't think I have much to worry about... then I will fill up the deep recess in the binding terminal with solder and feed it lots of solder...
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post #5 of 39
3/25/10 at 11:51am
With 8 AWG your problem is going to be getting enough heat into the joint fast enough to melt the solder without damaging the insulation on the wire or any plastic in contact with the parts. You want a bigger iron rather than a small one. 100 W might to do the job. It can be done with a torch as well.

The key to a good solder connection is a sound mechanical connection first. Also, you want to avoid any movement of the components as the solder sets up. Using a eutectic solder (63/37) will make this almost a non-issue.
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post #6 of 39
3/25/10 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
Wow this looks impressive:

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-Solderi.../dp/B001H8TGQS


On the other hand, why not just use a butane torch soldering iron, the kind with the flame right on it... Thois binding posts are beefy and will be no plastic parts on it. The good part about the 8 AWG wire is that the MIL SPEC has teflon cover... So I can really crank up the heat.

As far as stability of holding steady...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3NUNNXXHUJDMF

That PanaVise might be helpful.
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post #7 of 39
3/25/10 at 12:40pm
You ought to be able to find a decent basic 100W iron for at least $200 less than that fancy Weller.
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post #8 of 39
3/25/10 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
I wonder if this is any good for what I'm looking for:

http://www.amazon.com/Blazer-GB2001-...9545983&sr=1-1
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post #9 of 39
3/25/10 at 1:10pm
That'll work, but I prefer better products...

I have that Blazer - and the front of them falls apart then doesn't light properly (old design) - though with the little amount of soldering your going to do - I would imagine its pretty much a non issue...

I personally like one of these types...
http://www.autobarn.net/solder-it-bu...rch-pt200.html
http://www.autobarn.net/pt220.html

Newer design...
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post #10 of 39
3/25/10 at 1:10pm
That would work. I have used a oxygen acetylene torch with a very small tip to solder big wires
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post #11 of 39
3/25/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

My guess is that it would be really hard to overheat in my case?

What makes for the strongest bond? I'm always afraid of a solder joint just deciding to seperate or break off at some point in the future... Is there any way to have 100% confidence in a solder joint?

What is the key to making a good solder joint again? I'm thinking of getting it super hot since I don't think I have much to worry about... then I will fill up the deep recess in the binding terminal with solder and feed it lots of solder...

Any soldering iron will get it done; some just take longer. You could do it with an open flame but it will discolor the post. Since you're going with Cardas posts, you might as well pick up some Cardas quad-eutectic solder from Soniccraft while you're at it. It's very easy to use and it sticks to anything.

Poke the wire in the hole in the post.
Heat the post (big heat sink), not the wire (small heat sink).
Touch the solder to the wire, not the post.
The solder will flow when the wire is hot enough. (The post is also hot enough because the heat flowed through the post to get to the wire.)
Remove the heat when the post fills with solder.
Don't move it until it hardens.
When you're done, the surface solder should be shiny rather than granular looking. Reheat it (the post, not the solder) if it's the latter.
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post #12 of 39
3/25/10 at 2:37pm
Thread Starter 
I saw that on amazon also:

http://www.amazon.com/Solder-Pro-Tor...9552404&sr=8-5

Not too worried about discoloring since the posts are the long version and will be on the inside.

By the way, I do have the Cardas Q-E Solder, so that sounds good and I was planning on using it.

I can't put the wire through the hole on the binding post tab, but I can push it deep into the well (deep reces in the shaft of the post) and just lay it in the grove. I was thinking that I'll just get it real hot as you mention and then just keep pushing in the solder until there is a lot there and hopefully that will be fine. I could shave a lot of the wire off or put some if the threads thru the hole and not all of them if that is important.... but I thought I could just lay it on top of the hole and put it directly into the recessed 'well' in the shaft of the binding post ??

Quote:


Poke the wire in the hole in the post.
Heat the post (big heat sink), not the wire (small heat sink).
Touch the solder to the wire, not the post.
The solder will flow when the wire is hot enough. (The post is also hot enough because the heat flowed through the post to get to the wire.)
Remove the heat when the post fills with solder.
Don't move it until it hardens.
When you're done, the surface solder should be shiny rather than granular looking. Reheat it (the post, not the solder) if it's the latter.

Thanks for the detailed post, it really help when you are out of practice!
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post #13 of 39
3/25/10 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
I'm thinking I can just solder the speaker wire now (with enough extra length) and feed it though the cabinet binding post hole... and then feed the nut of the rear of the binding post over the wire... That is probably the only real way to do it anyway...

Come to think of it, I should probably buy some lock washers to put between the wood and the nut... otherwise there is just a simple nut that tightens down on the rear of the inside wooden cabinet.... ??
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post #14 of 39
3/25/10 at 3:07pm
Several people at HTGuide have had good luck with this budget soldering station at a fraction of the cost of a comparable Weller. It has true temperature control, antistatic tip, etc. meaning you can use it for circuit boards or big jobs like binding posts. Most of the cheap ones just have a knob to adjust how much power goes to the tip which indirectly controls temp. With true temperature control, it will run at low power to keep it at 700 degrees or whatever sitting on the bench but, when you touch it to something big and cold, it will kick up to the full 40 watts to maintain temperature.

http://www.web-tronics.com/cispdeesdsas.html

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post #15 of 39
3/25/10 at 3:28pm
Is this stranded wire or solid wire?
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post #16 of 39
3/25/10 at 3:37pm
I seriously doubt you will be able to solder 8 gauge copper wire to those binding posts with an iron. The wire will conduct the heat away from the joint faster than the iron can supply it. You will probably need a soldering gun. Here is a suitable one:


Weller D550PK 120-volt Professional Soldering Gun Kit 260/200 Watts
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post #17 of 39
3/25/10 at 4:11pm
+1 I have a 70 watt iron and would not try soldering 8 gage wire with it.
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post #18 of 39
3/25/10 at 5:00pm
I think you guys are overreacting a bit. I don't have any 8ga. handy but I just went out in the garage and soldered two long pieces of 12ga. (equivalent to one 9ga.) with no problem with a 25W Weller. The wire started at 40 degrees, the garage temperature. I have bigger irons, a gun and a torch but I hardly ever bother with them on wires. Soldering copper plumbing, that's another story.
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post #19 of 39
3/25/10 at 7:04pm
For soldering heavy GA wires I use a Weller 100W W100PG soldering iron, takes care of the 10GA soldering fast.

For all around use I have a upscale Weller soldering station and a Hakko station,these let you adjust the temperature.
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post #20 of 39
3/25/10 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snickel View Post

That would work. I have used a oxygen acetylene torch with a very small tip to solder big wires

HAHAHAhahahahahahahaaaaa! Now that, sir, is the definition of overkill! Especially now that I'm taking a welding class for giggles and have seen what the things can do.
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post #21 of 39
3/25/10 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

For soldering heavy GA wires I use a Weller 100W W100PG soldering iron, takes care of the 10GA soldering fast.

For all around use I have a upscale Weller soldering station and a Hakko station,these let you adjust the temperature.

The $40 station I linked above is supposedly an OEM version of the Hakko. More power lets you work quicker on the big stuff and that's important in a professional/production environment but it's really no big deal if you're only doing a couple of joints and it takes you an extra 30 seconds to heat them up. Having a quiver of specialized tools is great but, for a DIYer who wants to be able to do anything in audio with minimum expense, I'd go for one of the inexpensive soldering stations which will be able to get just about anything done.
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post #22 of 39
3/25/10 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

HAHAHAhahahahahahahaaaaa! Now that, sir, is the definition of overkill! Especially now that I'm taking a welding class for giggles and have seen what the things can do.

He said a small tip... FWIW jewelers sometimes use oxyacetylene to weld very fine wires and filagree with small torches with very small tips.

Take some more classes...
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post #23 of 39
3/25/10 at 10:19pm
All my soldering tools are Weller. Long lasting, well balanced and easy to use. I have a two iron WTCP station a single station and 2 guns.

The smaller 8200 has been the AV/industrial standard for 40+years. The 8200 is a 100/140 watt gun.

I also use the larger 240 watt gun for heavy cables and congested ground terminals.

I stay clear of the butane torch style irons as they stay hot a LONG time after they are turned off. I don't need to get burned or melt stuff in the tool box.
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post #24 of 39
3/27/10 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
I'm glad I bought the Pana Vise stuff.

Why mess around if going electric gun? This below looks good...

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-D650-In...707098&sr=1-12

How do you make pictures show instead of making a link?
LL
LL
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post #25 of 39
3/27/10 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

He said a small tip... FWIW jewelers sometimes use oxyacetylene to weld very fine wires and filagree with small torches with very small tips.

Take some more classes...

Key word: weld. A/O flame is 6600*F. The size of the reaction doesn't change that, although air mix may. Still, that's a LOT of heat to manage.

BTW, don't know why you took my comment as negative. It's badass if you can weld your wires together . And yes, I will be taking more classes, but it's doubtful I'll spend much time outside of TIG/MIG. I do have one of those $50 MAPP/oxy torches--fun to play with .
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post #26 of 39
3/27/10 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

How do you make pictures show instead of making a link?

When replying.... there is a button on top of the reply that looks like a mountain with the sun in it... hit that button and attach your image.

Most times you can go to the website where the picture is and right click it.... then copy and in your post hit that button and paste it there...



So what are you going to use to stuff your box...
Gotta figure out what I'm going to do with my Dual Opposed LMS's myself, my finished boxes should be here next week.
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post #27 of 39
3/27/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Key word: weld. A/O flame is 6600*F. The size of the reaction doesn't change that, although air mix may. Still, that's a LOT of heat to manage.

BTW, don't know why you took my comment as negative. It's badass if you can weld your wires together . And yes, I will be taking more classes, but it's doubtful I'll spend much time outside of TIG/MIG. I do have one of those $50 MAPP/oxy torches--fun to play with .

I didn't take it as negative, just uninformed. The same torch is used to braze and solder. It is not the temperature of the flame that is relevant to the joining process, it is the temperature of the base metal. And there is a difference between heat and temperature. Putting more heat into the base metal makes its temperature rise faster. You can put in more heat by increasing the size of the flame (bigger tip) or the temperature of the flame (different fuel/oxidizer). You can put in less heat in by decreasing the size of the flame or the temperature of the flame.

The same thing can be said of arc welding. If you have a suitable power source, you can weld thick steel plate or thin sheet metal with it. You just change the amount of heat you are putting into the work by adjusting the output. Too little heat and you won't have fusion. Too much heat and you may blow holes in the work.
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post #28 of 39
3/27/10 at 1:42pm
You know, I could talk about how I've done a fair bit of arc welding, or about how I've used bi-gas torches for welding, brazing (I did refrigeration as a hobby), and even soldering copper pipe (which was indeed way overkill and more difficult to control), but it seems pretty obvious to me that no matter what I say you'll take issue with it and prove that I actually don't know anything about it.
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post #29 of 39
3/27/10 at 2:47pm
Now if you want to get personal, I could add a few things about you...but I won't. Give it a rest...
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post #30 of 39
3/27/10 at 8:18pm
Actually I never wanted to 'get personal'. My first comment was a light hearted quip. I was pretty sure I extended an olive branch in my second post. Perhaps my sarcastic side got control in my third, but it seemed like you had already singled me out. And since we haven't met in person, or interacted much through this forum, I kinda doubt there's all that much 'personal' you could say about me . With any substance to it, at least. I just ask that you not assume things about people--tends to get on their nerves .

To the OP--sorry for befouling your honest thread with all this nonsense. Several people have offered good and reasonable suggestions so far. A simple soldering station should be sufficient for the DIY hobbiest, even in this range, but as you may have gathered, there's more than one right way to 'do it right'. Yes, even an A/O torch could do the job well in the correct hands. But that's way more of a tool than you need for this particular endeavor. One of the electric devices would do fine; even a butane torch would be plenty.
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