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What is the option for Plasma TV today?

post #1 of 14
3/26/10 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 
Hi all:
I'm in the market for a bigger than 50" TV for my new home and always have plasma TVs. LCD TVs have never get my attention due to off angle and black performance. But now, Panasonic has became the "Toyota of Plasma" with the black-level problem; Samsung is buzzing like a mad bee; Pioneer and Vizio are both out of the plasma business; at Costco, the LG looks cheap and bad . What is left out there?
thanks
bt
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post #2 of 14
3/26/10 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post

Hi all:
I'm in the market for a bigger than 50" TV for my new home and always have plasma TVs. LCD TVs have never get my attention due to off angle and black performance. But now, Panasonic has became the "Toyota of Plasma" with the black-level problem; Samsung is buzzing like a mad bee; Pioneer and Vizio are both out of the plasma business; at Costco, the LG looks cheap and bad . What is left out there?
thanks
bt


Probably good to start with a fresh mindset for 2010.

Samsung buzz on 2010s on all series is not verified. the mid range (6500 and up have not even been released)
LG 2010s have gotten pretty good praise so far.
Panasonics may have black level problems, but the 2010s have not been tested for their black levels yet.


best idea is to wait a few weeks/months to see where the dust settles.
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post #3 of 14
3/26/10 at 12:37pm
What about the lg do you not like
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post #4 of 14
3/26/10 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
I only saw the LG 50" at Costco; picture quality looked kind of wash-out to me at that time, but then again it was at Costco!
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post #5 of 14
3/26/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrist View Post

Probably good to start with a fresh mindset for 2010.


Panasonics may have black level problems, but the 2010s have not been tested for their black levels yet.


Au contraire! Gary Merson has tested a new 50VT20 Panasonic at Panasonic headquarters, and found the MLL to be .004 fL (good performance).

See, http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p50vt...t-review/1391/

Unfortunately, good empirical evidence found by a number of forum members, and Panasonic's admission that black levels (MLL) will rise over time suggests the ultimate MLL will be in the range of .012 (distinctly mediocre performance). Further, D-Nice has tested an S2 model out to 300 hours, and confirmed the rising MLL in that model as well.

This does not bode well for long term black level, and by extension real contrast ratio performance of any Panasonics this model year.

Wes Sokolosky
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post #6 of 14
3/26/10 at 1:24pm
I'm also stuck in some TV buying limbo.

My current '07 1080p Panny is great, but I only want to get a better set. Going Panasonic in the most recent years gives me a potential to have the known rising black issue. Only long term tests of 2010 models will show if this is an issue, but we know several lines of the 2009 have it.

Can't (easily) go Pioneer: still charging A LOT for a set that hasn't been in production for a long time. I'd love to get a 2008 model (5020 or 500M), but their prices are 2-3k and many are used. For that much money (ihmo), I'd rather get a new set. If the Pioneer sets were under 2k, I'd definitely consider.

LG? No.

Samsung? I'm looking at the 860 and it doesn't seem all that bad. The buzz notes don't seem *that* bad (esp since I sit ~10 feet from the set) and I'm really looking to great blacks (better than my current Panny is ideal), good motion handling and the lowest possible input latency (not noticeable on my Panny, I can do all the combos in SF4 that require tight timing).
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post #7 of 14
3/26/10 at 1:29pm
Go with this years Panasonic or wait. Black levels may rise but even if they do they are still going to be better than LCD's. Dont like Samsungs Plasmas but thats me.
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post #8 of 14
3/26/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post

I only saw the LG 50" at Costco; picture quality looked kind of wash-out to me at that time, but then again it was at Costco!

Any plasma will look washed out in that environment.
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post #9 of 14
3/26/10 at 2:17pm
Depending on your budget and whether you need a plasma TV or just a monitor w/o tuner and speakers is fine, you can still hunt down some still available Kuros. Bigger than 50" means 60" only though and those cost at least $3k I believe, not sure of the 6020FD can be had now for $2500.
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post #10 of 14
3/26/10 at 4:28pm
I am stuck in limbo also. I was planning on buying the 58V10 originally, but I paid off my car later than I planned so now I am rethinking my decision. This would be my first HDTV and I really don't want to spend $2000 or so which seems to be the current 58V10 range.

My thought is now to grab something like the 54G10 or 50G20/25. Then when I am ready to upgrade my bedroom tv which gets less use move the 50 or 54" into the bedroom and then upgrade the living room again but this time go with a 58" or 65". The 58V10 is still tempting since I don't think the rising blacks would bother me in the bedroom since it would eventually end up there. I just think the 58" would be huge in there since I watch tv from my desk a lot which is only 5-6 feet away.
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post #11 of 14
3/26/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post

I am stuck in limbo also. I was planning on buying the 58V10 originally, but I paid off my car later than I planned so now I am rethinking my decision. This would be my first HDTV and I really don't want to spend $2000 or so which seems to be the current 58V10 range.

My thought is now to grab something like the 54G10 or 50G20/25. Then when I am ready to upgrade my bedroom tv which gets less use move the 50 or 54" into the bedroom and then upgrade the living room again but this time go with a 58" or 65". The 58V10 is still tempting since I don't think the rising blacks would bother me in the bedroom since it would eventually end up there. I just think the 58" would be huge in there since I watch tv from my desk a lot which is only 5-6 feet away.

Assuming you don't watch in near pitch black darkness majority of time, yeah you won't notice rising blacks really. Being first HDTV, what's your main watching? TV, Blu ray? Seems like you may have more ambient light. I think a 50'G25/20 would be better thus. Improved over g10, imo a lot (not much in black levels) and imo matches everything that v10 offers except for user options and 96hz 24p playback. Of course - screen size would be smallest from the options you've listed (50) but imo between that and 54g10 I'd lose 4 inches for the 2010 g 100%. 50 is bigger than you think esp if you sit closer.

Also to one who dismissed LG outright as an option; seems like that's changed 2010. I did the same; never considered them for my new TV this year. However ultimately I'd have chosen the g20/25 series from Panny. The LG has more IR issues and needs a lot more calibration to get it excelling which it can. So that may also be an issue when viewing in stores. Cleveland Plasma gave the new LG 550 glowing reviews. So shouldn't unconsider them for 2010. However I still like the g better overall. But seems like LG stepped it up big time, which is good, they have much better customer service and quality than Samsung imo.
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post #12 of 14
3/26/10 at 5:01pm
My main viewing will be DVDs/Netflix and TV from FiOS on TiVo Premiere and either a HTPC or 360 as an extender. I do a little gaming also but not much and other than MMA we watch more movies than sports. I have no real plans to jump to Blu ray yet though the new set may motivate me.

Yeah I will have some ambient light though most of my viewing will be at night except on the weekends. Luckily I only have a gigantic sliding glass door off to the side. I am sure once I figure out what I need to block it will be done pretty quickly to minimize glare though getting the room pitch black will be tough since it is open to the kitchen. The rising blacks I am less concerned about than the floating blacks from description since I would notice that more than something over time. While I am not a true videophile I do seem to be sensitive to some of these things like the LCD motion which is why I have stuck with my CRTs so far.

The reason I am leaning 54 is we sit about 13 feet back from the TV. The way the room is setup, which is long but narrow like 12'x26' iirc, it is just too tough to sit closer without blocking access to one section of the house. I would be upgrading from a 36" CRT that we currently use at that distance so anything will be larger. I could probably jump up to the 54G20/25 but with it being in the same price range as the 58V10 I almost wonder if I am better doing that. This is of course why I keep going in circles on my decision

I ruled out the others based off 2009 which is when I started looking into upgrading. Of course you are correct with the 2010 this might change. I know when I looked I always preferred the Panasonics over the Samsung models in store which I know isn't the best place to judge but it is my only option. I need to go back and look again since the 2010 models are coming out.
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post #13 of 14
3/27/10 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post

My main viewing will be DVDs/Netflix and TV from FiOS on TiVo Premiere and either a HTPC or 360 as an extender. I do a little gaming also but not much and other than MMA we watch more movies than sports. I have no real plans to jump to Blu ray yet though the new set may motivate me.

Yeah I will have some ambient light though most of my viewing will be at night except on the weekends. Luckily I only have a gigantic sliding glass door off to the side. I am sure once I figure out what I need to block it will be done pretty quickly to minimize glare though getting the room pitch black will be tough since it is open to the kitchen. The rising blacks I am less concerned about than the floating blacks from description since I would notice that more than something over time. While I am not a true videophile I do seem to be sensitive to some of these things like the LCD motion which is why I have stuck with my CRTs so far.

The reason I am leaning 54 is we sit about 13 feet back from the TV. The way the room is setup, which is long but narrow like 12'x26' iirc, it is just too tough to sit closer without blocking access to one section of the house. I would be upgrading from a 36" CRT that we currently use at that distance so anything will be larger. I could probably jump up to the 54G20/25 but with it being in the same price range as the 58V10 I almost wonder if I am better doing that. This is of course why I keep going in circles on my decision

I ruled out the others based off 2009 which is when I started looking into upgrading. Of course you are correct with the 2010 this might change. I know when I looked I always preferred the Panasonics over the Samsung models in store which I know isn't the best place to judge but it is my only option. I need to go back and look again since the 2010 models are coming out.

Will you be mounting the TV on a wall or on stand? Also are you currently using TV speakers for audio? One advice though since you're looking at possibly moving the first HDTV to the bedroom eventually where you sit 5 to 6ft from the display; you should go with the 50" b/c at 5 to 6ft anything bigger is going to overwhelm, you might even feel the heat coming from the plasma being that close at larger than 50".
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post #14 of 14
3/27/10 at 12:56pm
I would probably go with a stand in the living room knowing eventually I would be upgrading anyway. Yeah currently also I am using the TV speakers for audio though I don't know how much I would truly ever invest into a home audio setup. I just can't see any 5.1 or greater setup really working in the room the way it is setup.

I definitely don't want to feel the heat so sounds like 50" may be the way to go. My bedroom is already 5 degrees warmer than the rest of the house due to the computers and electronics in there. Of course other times I would be watching from my bed but then again I use a 32" CRT in there now. It will be getting the 36" and entertainment center from the living room when I make the first upgrade.

Of course now I saw a Pioneer 5020 new in box locally which will probably be thrown in the mix of models I am looking at since it is under $2000.
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