Uni Directional Subwoofer Cables - Page 6

That may well be an example. I am not so sure Joe was talking about composite video but ok. Much of the discussion here was about balanced and unbalanced audio, coaxial cable and twisted pair. I do thank you for pointing that out though. Many of you here have a depth of knowlege about certain aspects of cable that I have never taken the time to acquire.

He didn't specify. the question was about two conductor cable in a balanced configuration. I answered it.

I am still trying to figure this out. You could have also been referring to the Digital Coax cable but how that provides High Definition digital video like your website mentioned has me lost. (100DB)

I asked Joe the same thing and he told me to read down. I did, it did not help lol. He may have just posted the wrong picture I suppose. Getting back to reality, i have noticed a few manufacturers lately who label toslink outputs spdif, and vice versa. It is mostly on dvd players. Sony and Phillips developed the coaxial digital interface (Aes/EBU or Aes3) and Toshiba did the optical, (toslink), I believe. Digital video is perhaps SDI (serial digital interface), that is the only term I can think of off hand, there may be others. I rarely Google this stuff and it probably shows,( if I did I would list the source.)
On a side note, I have to agree with Giz on something, Joe's site purports some very high end cables but the specs are certainly lacking. Percentage of braid, shielding, size of center conductor, etc. Maybe it is there and I just missed it? Alumiloy sounds like an aluminum alloy but surely not. I can only recall four or five things about using aluminum in wiring and most of those are bad.

I meant as a business, not personal.

That webpage could use an update, I agree with you, but out of seventy-some pages it's low priority. The Toslink cable is a digital cable, of course for audio, not video. The page simply shows the few digital cables we have within that line, and of course video and digital coaxial cables are fairly similar in that they are 75 ohm and share common connectors so can be interchangeable.

Anyhow man, when you feel ready go for it! I started out of my home back in 1989 as a second job and reached a point when I realized I could easily cover my paycheck and then some so left my daytime job and continued the 14-16 hour days, but all that work was for me and my family, not someone else. The hardest part is getting everything set up, so many little things to do that never seem to end. It's like being born, you have nothing. You need to set up shop, tools, materials and supplies, find vendors. You have nothing for graphics so either you hire someone at $50 an hour or figure it out Adobe yourself like I did. Then there's a website, which grows into a bad hair day- I must have thousands of hours in our site from it's inception 15 years ago, and it still needs more. The site is written for customers of such products, and many years of web and sales stats were used to hone in on proper wording, obviously not for techs.

It's quite a ride owning your own business and goes far beyond anything they can teach you in school- not to mention I'll never have to work for anyone again, of course unless I'd enjoy doing it. I would say at this point I could run any company quite effectively, so the skill sets learned are transferrable.


Our cables used to have specs supplied with them, but honestly a huge majority of OUR customers do not read specs, unless they are trying to match up a specific cartridge and cable capacitance on a turntable, in which case they call us for the specs. Another roll of the die is those who do read specs assume they completely understand a cable based on a few numbers- they do not. I wish it were that simple, comparable cable specs as they relate to a real world audio system do not mean comparable results. Plus we have within our industry many copy cats, the guys who you guys use as stereotypes (and put me in the same ranking). They're not technical, they have no imaginations of their own, they use others. So, the more you disclose to the public, the more you see the same in their marketing, their websites, and claims made to the case in their products. Even though they are inferior, they tell people the same specs. You do this long enough and you learn to balance the marketing and disclosure- it's a catch 22 for sure, but I've got it down to a science.

datadodge #20 Joe if you have the numbers available to give to an off the street client, you have them to post here. Why can't you just come clean?
your continual deflections are almost identical to Mr High End Audio.

Maybe you guys are brothers or MAYBE you and MRHEA are one in the same. Your tactics are mirror images of each other.

But that will make his opposite phase, thus both of them get through.

but soooooo disheartening. maybe we could install a split phase reversal detector and eliminator system.

Better yet a ABSDDS- Automatic Bull S***Detection Disposal System

You do this long enough and you learn to balance the marketing and disclosure- it's a catch 22 for sure, but I've got it down to a science. (Joe)

I see the marketing side, but even that is convoluted. I am sure you have something down to a "science", perhaps it is not science as most would know it. The pictures are pretty. Maybe that is enough to dazzle some. If you go to a company like say, Belden, they can tell you about standards for say digital audio cables. Some basic information like whether they are 50 ohm, 75 ohm, or 110 ohm might be nice or even if they qualify for AES3 and at what distances. They might even tell you if the cable is coaxial or twisted pair, solid or stranded, and strand count. Maybe some people just shop by hype, but not all do.

Our price list shows basic specs like that, in the literature section.

Giz if you want specs so badly why don't you go out and buy our cables used and measure the hell out of them.

FWIW, I do think Joe is a standup guy. This back and forth in threads just spins us out of control we all forget that we all have a passion for audio. Enough passion to argue endlessly online about it

We are much more alike then different to, PMs and phone calls will make you realize that this open board format is part of the issue. It infects us into challenging every little point.

Joe, responded to my PMs in a professional manner (I really respect that) and he did send me solid core wire to test. I believe its only for crossovers. Im currently still designing my new crossovers so I have not tested it other then use for an Lpad. I have zero comments on its performance but I will say that its a high quality wire and its easy to work with when soldering. Its far better then the local radioshack stuff I tend to use. Again, I have zero performance measurements or audiable tests since Im still spending weeks on end playing around with speaker meausrements, sims, Active crossover testing etc.

I think there was a comment in this thread about Magnet wire too, that is my next test.

From Ol Joe of snake oil fame:
"Giz if you want specs so badly why don't you go out and buy our cables used and measure the hell out of them."

I don't remember ever having to do that for ANY LEGITIMATE (you know, HONEST) manufacturer of ANY component or cable. I also negotiate quantity pricing for hundreds of thousands of feet or power, speaker, IC, mic, data, rack, video, computer and hook-up and not only do I get any and all specification without any effort at all (they publish it it freely for anyone to see) I get lots of perks as well.

Explain why I should buy from YOU, what I know is a pile of BS with absolutely zero basis in fact of any kind ,let alone being priced into the realm of sheer lunacy.

Sales 101 Joe, provide the client an INCENTIVE to buy by providing the information the client requests. If I am not moved by ad nauseum raves using every flowery adjective you can muster to describe all the sonic orgasms I will enjoy, but I actually want tech specs to compare performance then THAT is what a responsible honest salesperson will do.

Ahhhh there's the rub. As I said earlier, you don't HAVE the specs and now you want ME to test YOUR cables. That way you could use any test results I get as opposed to ever testing your own. Ohhh, you are so shrewd!

Funny how there seems to be no one else using Alumiloy as wire but lots of folks use it for MIG welding etc even though it has a LOT of issues.

Since you seem to be the only one, I would imagine that having your own extrusion company, insulation section, spooling etc must be quite an operation. Funny, I have never seen you exhibit at INFOCOMM, NAB etc.
Seems to me that you would have to move a LOT of your product to a rather specialized market. I rather doubt the gullible audiophool market could support such an operation.

Do they have a convention for white elephant products?

BTW I have a call in to one of my sources (the largest cable manufacturer in the country) to see what/who they show as the extruder of alumiloy wire. You see, these folks know ALL the metal suppliers and extrusion companies as they sub for just about everybody and they are part of a rather small industrial specialty community.

Should be interesting to see what they say.

Joe as others have said, there is nothing wrong with selling a product and making a reasonable profit. Where we differ is that many folks want to provide a genuine, tested and realistic product and not rely on shady business practices to sell it.
If the product has real worth, it will find the market on its own merits.

Thanks Penn...

Giz, if you're going to criticize a company, you really should have your facts together else you look like a fool.

Alumiloy, the registered trademark for our proprietary conductors, is not to be confused with 'Alumaloy', welding material. You are trying to find fault and in your quest to do so are using other's faults. You may want to narrow your search to JPS alumiloy.

You can contact all the sources you wish, confidentiality agreements as well as common business practices prohibit any of our vendors from speaking about our relationship, particularly to some guy on a forum named Gizmo.

I wouldn't call a person who charges $1,499 for a power chord and $15,699 for a 6m pair of Aluminata Reference Speaker Cables, a stand up guy. But I guess it all depends on what it is he is standing for.

Joe, from your cable website.
"Alumiloy excels in clarity and resolving ability, particularly in critical more demanding applications such as in recording studios and high-end audio and video systems, where the cables ultimately decide the limit of the equipment's performance. Most cable and wire places huge limitations on performance, while many more costly designs tend to tailor or adjust the sound or picture, making a component's reponse more like the wire rather than what it was enginnered to do- be itself."
Are those facts?

We've never sold a 6 meter pair of Aluminata speaker cable, 100 db chose the most expensive thing on our price list for maximum effect. The average length speaker cable is 2.4 M or 8 FT, still not cheap at $8499- It is what it is for a complicated and large hand-made cable assembly- and I do mean hand-made. We insulate the 5 AWG bare Alumiloy conductors in-house, building the cable from the inside out. It takes a very skilled craftsman, I'm talking someone who is meticulous and has the patience to spend 8 hours on one cable. They're awesome when done, and quite unique in design and function, that I can assure you.

Ever think about a nice watch,, or aftermarket car accessories, or a nice custom made bike frame. There's a whole world out there of products made by good people designed to please their owners.

The fight you are constantly picking is with the little guys who work like hell to cut out their own nitch, do their own thing, and make products that customers seek beyond walmart and target. If you are not in the market for such, great. If you are, we're here for you. It's really that simple, it has and always will exist within just about every type of product category, and is most definitely the American way of life.

Absolutely!!! The proof is in the pudding.

Damn. While I still believe and am willing to continue to cry "foul" over these ridiculous, high priced, cables, I have to admit that I own a Cartier watch and ride a custom fitted Serotta bike that cost as much as a few cars I can think of. I guess I'll just take a back seat on this one!

But, while I admit my watch doesn't work any better than a $10 Timex, nobody can tell me that my bike can be touched by anything under $10K. The best blend of carbon fiber and Titanium in the world.

We charge about 250.00 labor to build a broadcast grade 32 channel snake with 96 conductors. But then we are selling a verifiable product to professionals who KNOW what they are getting.

Each channel is labeled with custom printed heat shrink, the pigtails are color coded into send /return groups and each conductor is individually sealed with heat shrink tubing with integral hot glue for added mechanical strength.

All this in about 3 hours.

That is the big difference. Quality and performance vs hype.

BTW Joe, obviously "Gizmologist" is my SN for sites like this, it is NOT my business contact ID.

From the US Government Patent and Trademark registry:

http://search.usa.gov/search?affilia...query=alumiloy

No listing found. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No offense Giz, but what is the point? This isn't like the conditioner thread and arguing with someone who has nothing to gain like westom. JS has $8499 to gain by selling speaker cables to someone who apparently has more dollars than sense.

BTW, good luck convincing someone who wants to spend $8500 on speaker cables that they don't do anything that a $20 set won't do.

You REALLY need to learn how to use the internet. It's SOOO big that you can be easily fooled. Search Alumiloy from the uspto.gov website. Please use this site when you wish to confirm marks. You'll also find 'The Superconductor', 'Ultra Conductor', and 'JPS Labs'. I know, I signed the checks to the Phili law firm who secured them for us back in the day. Had to do it to protect ourselves from people who were knocking off our names.

Look Giz, you're arguing with a professional who does this for a living. Let's move on to more interesting topics. ok?

>>>

LOL- nailed you from the other side of a cable.

Actually, not quite that much to gain. You see, as many businesses, we sell through distribution, who sells to the dealer, who sells to the consumer. We do not make direct sales. So we see a much smaller percentage of the retail than you think.

But how much better would it be with some Alumiloy? BTW, Joe, NP trademarking that name but it appears to be used by folks looking to repair aluminum products. Does that constitute any kind of infringement?

The TM will have the date issued, to who, a file number, state of issue and a description.

Makes no difference if you paid someone. Maybe they do the same type of thing for a living that YOU do.

Our mark is unique, I originally created the word. No one else has trademark rights to it.

As I mentioned in a prior post to Giz, there is a mark spelled differently, Alumaloy, with an 'A' instead of an 'I', they sell welding products, and their mark has expired- basically they couldn't afford to renew it. The only live (active) listing is under the category of 'laboratory clamps', not really conflict of interest even it it were spelled the same. Google however for whatever reason still puts credibility toward that different spelling of the word. These things have a way of working themselves out over time.

That's a lie!
There are things in that quote that are flat out untrue.

In all fairness, I think that is Alumaloy. That product probably does have a registered trademark though.

There's a link on the word ALUMILOY on my post to you above, click on the word and you'll see the trademark at the US Patent and Trademark Office, USPTO for short.

Apparently the search links time out. Go to http://www.uspto.gov, under trademarks click 'Search Marks', then click New User Form Search (Basic)

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...010:r0t6le.2.1

I don't know if I can post a direct URL from that site. We'll see.

Either way all he did was trademark a word.