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3D ready DLP Projector recommendations

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I am in charge of ordering equipment for a Computer Gaming lab at my university. The lab will include a 3D ready DLP projector and 3D Vision glasses.

What I have:
1. Glasses: now this setup is tricky. Money has to be spent now, so I can't wait until Bit Cauldron glasses come out. Glasses also have to work with displays other than DLP projectors (can't be DLP Link ONLY). This pretty much limited me to 3D Vision. The glasses have already been ordered.

2. Computers: Dell XPS9000's, with ATI 5770 GPUs. I had to order from Dell, and ATIs were the only powerfull GPUs they were offering for the XPS9000's. The computes have already been ordered.

What I need: a DLP projector with a VESA (3din) port.
I know that 3D Vision will only work with Nvidia GPUs (although this may change later, people are making dongles for 85hz DLPs by getting the sync signal off the VGA, such dongles should allow nvidia glasses to work with any card). Fortunately, ATI video cards have HDMI out, so I should be able to send checkerboard 3D over HDMI using iZ3D to the projector. Then I can plug the IR emitter into the projector and the setup should work.

Projectors I have looked at:
Acer H5360
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H5360-3D-.../dp/B0036R9ZKA

Optoma HD66
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD66-3D.../dp/B002ZWU33U

ViewSonic PJD6531W
http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PJD6.../dp/B0033PRQE2

Optoma PRO350W
http://www.jr.com/optoma/pe/OTM_PRO350W/

The budget is $1000 for the projector. If anyone has experience with these projectors (or better alternatives) and 3D vision glasses, please post here.
post #2 of 26
You may want to read through this webboard thread: link

The folks here seem to have a good deal of hands-on experience with most or all of the pjs you listed.

Also, I assume you are already familiar with this list of 3D capable projectors?


One last thing...I don't think any of these projectors support checkerboard natively. They all support frame-sequential 3D, though.
post #3 of 26
Do any of these have the Vesa port?
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Do any of these have the Vesa port?

I don't think so.
post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I don't think so.

I believe Lee is correct. These pjs rely on the source (in this case the PC graphics card) to provide not only content in frame-sequential format, but to provide the sync signal as well.

Typically this accomplished by using a VGA "dongle" such as this one, which provides a 3-pin DIN socket for an emitter, but requires that the pj be driven via VGA (15-pin mini D-Sub).

Alternatively, the nVidia 3D Vision Kit provides and emitter than can interface with the PC via USB. A key advantage would be the fact that the pj could be fed via HDMI.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

I believe Lee is correct. These pjs rely on the source (in this case the PC graphics card) to provide not only content in frame-sequential format, but to provide the sync signal as well.

Typically this accomplished by using a VGA "dongle" such as this one, which provides a 3-pin DIN socket for an emitter, but requires that the pj be driven via VGA (15-pin mini D-Sub).

Alternatively, the nVidia 3D Vision Kit provides and emitter than can interface with the PC via USB. A key advantage would be the fact that the pj could be fed via HDMI.


Edit: of course DLP-link glasses make all of the above moot!

One of his requirements:

"can't be DLP Link ONLY)."

So he has to get the nVidia glasses
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

...This link may be helpful to you. Shows DLP-Link compatible projectors:

http://www.dlp.com/projector/dlp-inn.../dlp-link.aspx

I love the marketing hype on that page:

Quote:


Because the DLP imaging chip is so fast, it is able to project two images on the screen at one time...

Wow. And here we all thought only passive systems could do that.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

One of his requirements:

"can't be DLP Link ONLY)."

So he has to get the nVidia glasses

I edited my post.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

I edited my post.

LOL! So did I - but you quoted it before the edit took hold.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN View Post

I love the marketing hype on that page:

Wow. And here we all thought only passive systems could do that.

That quote might be a bit misleading. They work with DLP-Link shutter glasses which use the frame sequential 3D format. So the glasses block one image while allowing the other image to be seen by one eye. The same thing is happening with passive polarizarion except there is no L,R,L,R, etc block. Two images on the screen and the glasses themselves block one image due to the polarizing filters.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

That quote might be a bit misleading. They work with DLP-Link shutter glasses which use the frame sequential 3D format. So the glasses block one image while allowing the other image to be seen by one eye. The same thing is happening with passive polarizarion except there is no L,R,L,R, etc block. Two images on the screen and the glasses themselves block one image due to the polarizing filters.

I was being sarcastic...DLP-Link is an active system. Yet their own marketing blurb, probably in an attempt to dumb it down for us, implies it is passive (by stating "two images on the screen at the same time").

I don't think they were trying to be misleading. It's hard to market a complicated technology to the general public.

Not a big deal. It just struck me as humorous, that's all.
post #12 of 26
The HD66 is not 3D Vision certified so you may have problems getting it recognized.

Acer H5360 is the only 720p 3D Vision certified projector.

You will need NVIDIA GPU to use the emitter I think unless the iZ3D drivers interface with it themselves...

What other displays do you need the glasses to work on?
post #13 of 26
I am not aware of any home projector that has two projectors so that it can simyltanously display different poloarized images on the screen at the same time like the IMAX and theater Real3D 3d systems can. AFAIK any hoome capable of polarized displays are frame sequential and display left eye and right polarized frames separatly.

I beleive that the Nvidia 3D video system sends frame sequentaial images to the display/PJ over the USB interface and contols it's active shutters from an emitter in the interface unit and the reason they are in sync is that are are designed to synce on the change of the voltage sine wave polarity in the 120v 60 cycle US power supply.
post #14 of 26
Any native widescreen dlp 3D ready projetcors take the Mitsu 3D last gen checkerboard input? And if so, will these work with DLP-Link glasses? And if so, wouldn't they work with the Mitsu converter?

There has to be one doesn't there? According to what I read about the converter, the projector has to accept 1080p/60 Checkerboard 3D.....
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Any native widescreen dlp 3D ready projetcors take the Mitsu 3D last gen checkerboard input? And if so, will these work with DLP-Link glasses? And if so, wouldn't they work with the Mitsu converter?

There has to be one doesn't there? According to what I read about the converter, the projector has to accept 1080p/60 Checkerboard 3D.....

AFAIK, there is no 1080P 3D ready DLP FPTV. Not yet at least. If there was, IMO, you could use the 3DC-1000 and DLP-Link glasses.

What's interesting is that Mits has a line of HT FPTVs but they use LCD and not DLP.
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the VGA dongle link. That seems to be what I'm looking for. If understand correctly, it will take the 120Hz timing off the D-Sub, and output it through the VESA minidin3, which is compatible with the Nvidia IR emitter.

In my case, using VGA is actually an advantage, since the lab is prewired for VGA.

Here's my opinion about DLP Link:
DLP Link is a dead end technology that will not go anywhere. Besides the fact that TI is not being very open about it, it's only NEEDED for projectors, since DLP HDTVs come with the sync port. It's my understanding that the DLP Link glasses will NOT work with plasmas, LCDs (monitors or flat panel HDTVs that will surely come out), CRTs, etc. As time passes and 120Hz displays become standard, consumers will choose glasses that will work with a variety of display devices in their households, and that rules out DLP Link.

As far as tricking the Nvidia drivers to recognize a good portion of compatible 120Hz DLP projectors, there is a guide posted on nvidia boards:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...ic=164029&st=0
Not that I actually care about Nvidia drivers, since I will be forcing ATI drivers to turn on the 3D mode, which is unknown territory alltogether.

PS: I know that this is a troublesome combination of hardware, but there are external factors in play here. I am not spending my own money, the money has to be spent NOW, and I have to order computers from Dell. I know that it will require quite a bit hackery to get the whole package to work, but at least I am not seeing any clear red flags indicating that it will absolutely NOT work.
post #17 of 26
Good luck. I've been in that unenviable position more than once. I usually lucked out, even without AVS to bail me out back then, but it's not a good feeling. Please post how things work out for you. I've owned lots of nVidia and ATI cards in the past, but I've leaned toward ATI in the last couple of years for several reasons. Both had announcements at CES about their support for 3D, so I'm expecting some exciting developments in the coming months.
post #18 of 26
I thik DLP and DLP-Link is going to be with us and 3D for quite a while. The path of least resistance and least price as well.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

AFAIK, there is no 1080P 3D ready DLP FPTV. Not yet at least. If there was, IMO, you could use the 3DC-1000 and DLP-Link glasses.

What's interesting is that Mits has a line of HT FPTVs but they use LCD and not DLP.

Hard to believe not one projector out there can take this 3D input.

I am going to keep googling.

At this point, I'm not so sure I'd care even if it was a 4:3 as long as it took the input.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfqwer View Post

Thanks for the VGA dongle link. That seems to be what I'm looking for. If understand correctly, it will take the 120Hz timing off the D-Sub, and output it through the VESA minidin3, which is compatible with the Nvidia IR emitter.

In my case, using VGA is actually an advantage, since the lab is prewired for VGA.

Well, yes and no. The VGA dongle has a 3-pin DIN port that will accept a 3-pin jack from an emitter. I think that the nVidia emitter supports a DIN connector (I know that it supports USB), but you should check the specs to be sure.

However, the signal in and of itself does not provide the sync pulse; it is up to the individual software program or graphics card hardware to generate it. For example, when using the Stereoscopic Player (SP) software for watching 3D video, the sync signal is generated by SP only when you switch to full screen mode. In windowed mode, there is no sync signal. This is because, typically, the sync signal is only appropriate when you are in a page-flipped video mode.

[Page-flipping is a technique employed by games and other software and involves 2 or more hardware-based "drawing buffers" that are written to "offscreen" and then "flipped" or presented to the primary display when drawing is complete. Page flipping is used primarily to achieve smooth animation, but can also be taken advantage of to achieve 3D by alternately drawing left/right "views" to the offscreen buffers and then having the emitter sync to the flipping (display) of each buffer. Windowed modes can't make use of hardware-assisted page flipping and have to rely on software-based approaches. I'm oversimplifying, but that's the basic premise.]

You state that your intention is to use this setup for gaming. So it would be up to the game software and/or your graphics card hardware to generate the requisite sync signal. The ATI website does mention support for 3D, so hopefully it can be made to work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfqwer View Post

Here's my opinion about DLP Link:
DLP Link is a dead end technology that will not go anywhere. Besides the fact that TI is not being very open about it, it's only NEEDED for projectors, since DLP HDTVs come with the sync port. It's my understanding that the DLP Link glasses will NOT work with plasmas, LCDs (monitors or flat panel HDTVs that will surely come out), CRTs, etc. As time passes and 120Hz displays become standard, consumers will choose glasses that will work with a variety of display devices in their households, and that rules out DLP Link.

DLP-Link technology is obviously tied to the DLP chip and displays that make use of it. For front projection setups in home theaters, it will continue to be an attractive solution. IR-based emitters have all kinds of challenges in such environments such as signal strength, line-of-sight, etc., not to mention the complexities of running cabling from the projector to the front of the room. DLP-Link is an elegant solution to those challenges.

I don't think it will go away; it will just be another viable option for 3D consumers to consider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfqwer View Post

As far as tricking the Nvidia drivers to recognize a good portion of compatible 120Hz DLP projectors, there is a guide posted on nvidia boards:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...ic=164029&st=0
Not that I actually care about Nvidia drivers, since I will be forcing ATI drivers to turn on the 3D mode, which is unknown territory alltogether.

You will obviously need to use ATI's drivers, which hopefully will play nicely with your game software and with the nVidia emitter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfqwer View Post

PS: I know that this is a troublesome combination of hardware, but there are external factors in play here. I am not spending my own money, the money has to be spent NOW, and I have to order computers from Dell. I know that it will require quite a bit hackery to get the whole package to work, but at least I am not seeing any clear red flags indicating that it will absolutely NOT work.

Yes, you have a lot different factors in your configuration equation. It should be fun and challenging to get it working. Please post back with your results, and good luck!
post #21 of 26
You know, I have to admit. Attempting to get this together for me at this early stage is driving me crazy....

Patience.... Say "Oooohhhmmmm" now breath deep John...
post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
I went with ViewSonic PJD6531w as the projector, and ordered 2 eDim VGA dongles. I'll post the results when I get the hardware.
post #23 of 26
I keep laxing my requirements... Since it does seem possible to do Bluray with an HTPC, all I really need it to have is broadcast 3D support. I'm willing to build the computer for BD support.
post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 
I was able to get the glasses to work with iZ3D under XP. Dell machines with ATIs havent arrived yet, but I assume it will work just fine since iZ3D supports ATI GPUs.

Details can be found here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=10087&start=0
post #25 of 26
This is designed for professional use, but its the first 3D enabled widescreen projector for commercial installations that I've seen come out. I've just spec'd 17 of these into a project I'm working on.

Sharp PG-D40W3D
post #26 of 26
What PC application program and Video source are you planning on using with the 1280x800 native resolution projector for 3D content?
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