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Thinking about selling my Supercube Reference. . .

post #1 of 47
4/3/10 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
and getting dual eD A5-350 or A7s-450 or one A7-700. Anyone done a direct comparison with a SC Reference and any of these? Thoughts?
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post #2 of 47
4/3/10 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

and getting dual eD A5-350 or A7s-450 or one A7-700. Anyone done a direct comparison with a SC Reference and any of these? Thoughts?

Do you have a specific desire for your upgrade? Extension to below 20 Hz? Improved sound quality? Huge mid-bass output?

Off hand, I would pick the dual ED A5-350s.
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post #3 of 47
4/3/10 at 3:50pm
i second spyboys recomendation
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post #4 of 47
4/4/10 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Do you have a specific desire for your upgrade? Extension to below 20 Hz? Improved sound quality? Huge mid-bass output?

Off hand, I would pick the dual ED A5-350s.

I just want more bass without having to run the sub so hot compared to the other channels. When I get it to where I like it, there is too much bass during scenes that shouldn't have much bass. So I guess my answer is all of the above.
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post #5 of 47
4/4/10 at 12:45pm
did you check your frequency response ?

if you have a big peak (or even a null when you're calibrating), it could explain why "there is too much bass during scenes that shouldn't have much bass". you'll have the same problem no matter what sub you get

could be a set-up/placement/calibration problem or something could be wrong with the sub itself because what you're describing is not normal

"I just want more bass without having to run the sub so hot compared to the other channels."

another thing to remember is if you're running the sub so hot, any redirected bass will not be balanced with their respective channels
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post #6 of 47
4/4/10 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
What's the best way to check my frequency response? My receiver doesn't have that built in. I am going to start moving the sub around the room and testing different locations as soon as my new cable arrives this week.
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post #7 of 47
4/4/10 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

What's the best way to check my frequency response? My receiver doesn't have that built in. I am going to start moving the sub around the room and testing different locations as soon as my new cable arrives this week.

placement can make a huge difference in frequency response and sound quality

you'll need a SPL meter which you can get at radio shack for about $40

and test tones. here's a site that offers a free download test-tone cd

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

or you can use your computer with the SPL meter and free software called REW which is available here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
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post #8 of 47
4/5/10 at 9:23am
Thread Starter 
I've got a SPL meter and downloaded the test cd. What exactly do I need to do? This is what I plan to do, so let me know if I'm going about this wrong.

1. Set my subwoofer level so that it matches the other speakers' output.
2. Play the pink noise test tone to set the volume to 75 dB.
3. Play all the different frequency test tones to see if the sub is producing that frequency at 75 dB. I assume I need to use the adjustments for the Radio Shack SPL meter when doing this.
4. Start moving the sub around until all frequencies play at the same level.

I'm starting to think that my biggest problem is that not all Blu-Rays are created equal. Going from Terminator Salvation to New Moon, I had to turn the sub down A LOT due to the background music alone.
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post #9 of 47
4/5/10 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

I've got a SPL meter and downloaded the test cd. What exactly do I need to do? This is what I plan to do, so let me know if I'm going about this wrong.

1. Set my subwoofer level so that it matches the other speakers' output.
2. Play the pink noise test tone to set the volume to 75 dB.
3. Play all the different frequency test tones to see if the sub is producing that frequency at 75 dB. I assume I need to use the adjustments for the Radio Shack SPL meter when doing this.
4. Start moving the sub around until all frequencies play at the same level.

I'm starting to think that my biggest problem is that not all Blu-Rays are created equal. Going from Terminator Salvation to New Moon, I had to turn the sub down A LOT due to the background music alone.

The issues your are describing is not an issue with the movie, but is an issue with your frequency response curve. I have my subwoofers equalized and do not have to adjust the subwoofer volume with different movies.

#4 would be tedious. There are methods to find the optimum place for your subwoofer first. Many use the crawl test. Place your subwoofer in the seating position, play a bass-heavy musical piece that you are familiar with and then crawl around your room until you find the area that sounds best to you. Place your subwoofer there.

Afterwards, you can plot out your frequency response curve using your SPL meter. You should probably invest in an equalizer if you find that your curve is uneven.
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post #10 of 47
4/5/10 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
I really only have 3 options of places to put my subwoofer, so it won't take too much work to find the best of the 3. I have done the crawl test and know the first spot I'm going to try.
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post #11 of 47
4/5/10 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

I really only have 3 options of places to put my subwoofer, so it won't take too much work to find the best of the 3. I have done the crawl test and know the first spot I'm going to try.

moving the sub even a few inches can effect the response curve

even if you only have 3 spots, you can try facing the sub 4 or more different ways
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post #12 of 47
4/5/10 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

moving the sub even a few inches can effect the response curve

even if you only have 3 spots, you can try facing the sub 4 or more different ways

Not what I wanted to hear.
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post #13 of 47
4/5/10 at 12:54pm
Thanks for the info on the realtraps cd. I downloaded the test cd, and transferred to a cd, but how do I go about getting the sound into my theater speakers. It only wants to play on my computer using neromedia. I put it into my dvd player and it won't recognize it. Any ideas?
Ken
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post #14 of 47
4/5/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

Thanks for the info on the realtraps cd. I downloaded the test cd, and transferred to a cd, but how do I go about getting the sound into my theater speakers. It only wants to play on my computer using neromedia. I put it into my dvd player and it won't recognize it. Any ideas?
Ken

you need to burn the CD as an "audio cd" not a "data cd"

*from the website*

USING THE FILES

All of the files needed are in the test-cd.zip file you can download at the top of this page, and they are named numerically to end up on the CD in the proper order automatically. Simply extract all of the files to a folder on your hard drive, then drag the files as a group to your CD burning program to create an audio (not data) CD. You can sort the list of file names alphabetically, if needed, before dragging the files.

You can also print the accompanying Test Graph.gif file to plot the results. If you have a graphics program, print the image from there and tell the program to fill the page when printing.
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post #15 of 47
4/5/10 at 2:41pm
[quote=otk;18436931]you need to burn the CD as an "audio cd" not a "data cd"

*How do I go about doing that?

Ken
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post #16 of 47
4/5/10 at 4:07pm
[quote=Kensmith48;18437451]
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

you need to burn the CD as an "audio cd" not a "data cd"

*How do I go about doing that?

Ken

not sure how your software handles it. you might have to check into the directions or help section of your cd burning software but i use nero and when i go to burn files to a cd, it asks if i want the cd burned as an audio cd or a data cd
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post #17 of 47
4/5/10 at 4:43pm
Thread Starter 
I used iTunes to create the CD. Just make sure you select audio and not data no matter what you use. My PS3 read the burned CD without any problems, however, the song titles didn't carry over for some reason.
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post #18 of 47
4/5/10 at 5:42pm
Thanks, but my wife came home from work and she did it. It's a good thing one of has has the brains. lol
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post #19 of 47
4/5/10 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
I recalibrated my system so that the sub was at the same level as the rest of my speakers. My crossover is set to 60 Hz. Here are my results from the test CD without any adjustments. These were the raw readings from the SPL meter. I stopped at 160 since I knew I'd never cross it over any higher than that, plus I had to go watch the game.


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post #20 of 47
4/5/10 at 8:09pm
looks like 2 nasty dips

play around with placement till you find the smoothest response

takes a lot of trial and error

EQ wont help you with those dips

you never want to use EQ to boost really large dips

what are the dimensions of your room ?
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post #21 of 47
4/5/10 at 8:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

looks like 2 nasty dips

play around with placement till you find the smoothest response

takes a lot of trial and error

EQ wont help you with those dips

you never want to use EQ to boost really large dips

what are the dimensions of your room ?

18 x 13.5 x 9

Opening at the back leads to a room that's about 13.5 x 6 x 7.

I'm thinking about moving the sub to the back left corner. Due to the passive radiators, should I angle it out of the corner at 45 deg?

FYI, the CR6s are turned off at the moment.

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post #22 of 47
4/6/10 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

18 x 13.5 x 9

Opening at the back leads to a room that's about 13.5 x 6 x 7.

I'm thinking about moving the sub to the back left corner. Due to the passive radiators, should I angle it out of the corner at 45 deg?

FYI, the CR6s are turned off at the moment.


i would angle it whichever way gives you the smoothest response

your room isn't square (a good thing) but the 9 by 18 wall dimensions might present a problem. i believe whenever one flat surface can be divided evenly into another flat surface, that can cause a problem with standing waves in the room. i'm not 100% on that, perhaps someone could chime in

if you can't get rid of nasty dips or peaks no matter how many placement spots you try, you might need to consider multiple subs and/or bass traps to help smooth things out
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post #23 of 47
4/6/10 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Should I worry about frequencies above 60 Hz since my crossover is set to 60?
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post #24 of 47
4/6/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

Should I worry about frequencies above 60 Hz since my crossover is set to 60?

yes because the crossover only applies to channels that are redirecting bass. the LFE channel uses frequencies all the way up to 120hz

in other words, that 64hz dip will still effect your .1 (or LFE) channel
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post #25 of 47
4/6/10 at 5:12pm
Thread Starter 
I guess I should set my crossover to 120 then until I finish plotting everything. I got my new cable today, so I can start moving the sub around.
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post #26 of 47
4/7/10 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
Here are 2 new curves. The blue line is in the same position as the first curve, only with the crossover set to 120. The red line is in a new position. Looks like moving it fixed one dip, but introduced others.

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post #27 of 47
4/8/10 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

Here are 2 new curves. The blue line is in the same position as the first curve, only with the crossover set to 120. The red line is in a new position. Looks like moving it fixed one dip, but introduced others.



Unless you can find a position that has much better frequency response, you might be a good candidate for a pair of Epik Empires, or if you can up your budget, a pair of HSU ULS-15.

Dr. Hsu is willing to review FR graphs, review floor plans, discuss placement, and make recommendations on subs.

I would be surprised if a pair of ULS-15s wouldn't help your FR.

Of course, first you need to explore all the placement options with your Supercube Reference.

One other thought. Nearfield placement really helps with room modes.

Is there any way you can place your sub REALLY CLOSE to your listening position? Like right next to or right behind your seat?
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post #28 of 47
4/8/10 at 2:34pm
Thread Starter 
I tried another location last night and the curve was almost identical to the first curve. I can put the sub directly in front of me, but that would look a little odd.

I got an email from av123 today about the MWF-15 being on sell. I could get 2 of those for less than $1200 shipped. They were not on the top of my list but that's a hard price to pass up.

It looks to me like if I put a sub at the two locations I've plotted, then the curve should flatten out. Does it really work that way?
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post #29 of 47
4/8/10 at 3:02pm
Dual MFW-15s for $999 is tempting BUT, practice due diligence BEFORE pulling the trigger.
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post #30 of 47
4/8/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Stamp View Post

I tried another location last night and the curve was almost identical to the first curve. I can put the sub directly in front of me, but that would look a little odd.

I got an email from av123 today about the MWF-15 being on sell. I could get 2 of those for less than $1200 shipped. They were not on the top of my list but that's a hard price to pass up.

It looks to me like if I put a sub at the two locations I've plotted, then the curve should flatten out. Does it really work that way?

Going a step further, what if he were to add say 2 or 3 more similar subs into the room, not nessecarily co located? Say 2 in the front on either side of your HT set up, spaced say maybe 6 feet apart, and 2 along a side wall spaced say 6 feet apart as well?
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