C7000 vs g25

Everybody needs 3D.

Panasonic has floating blacks and black level rise. Samsung has buzz. Pick your poison.

I am in the same boat.

I am waiting to see where the Sammy black levels come in. If they are on par with post-rise Pannys, then I probably will go with a C7000. The buzzing doesn't scare me, since it seems that most people don't have buzzing sets.

Anyone seen a professional review yet?

Im pretty sure the blacks on the Panasonic are still going to be better than the Samsungs, pre black level rise. After watching some youtube videos of the 2010 Samsungs, it doesnt sound like they are doing too much to get better blacks, for night time viewing at least. Im sure the black filter will help during the day, but at night I doubt we will see grand improvements. Like I have said in a previous post, I had a Samsung buzzer, and it was not an issue for me. I nit pick everything, but was able to tune the buzzing out relatively quickly.

Neither will be kuros but 2010 panasonics should be closer even after any black level rise. I honestly think part of it is redesigning their sets to use less energy, which is taking a few years for them to get right. You may want to hold off to see how high black levels rise on these 2010 Panasonics and then jump in for one if it's not too bad. Even after black level rise, it'd still probably be darker than Samsung plasmas. Samsung really is not putting in much effort to their plasmas.

What is this comment based on? Nobody has measured the black level on the new Samsungs yet. If you compare last years models Samsung actually comes out slightly ahead in the black levels. I am guessing at a similar outcome for 2010 models, especially considering Panasonics admission that the black level will rise.

Gee, a completely new panel with AR and Real Black filters, meeting or exceeding Energy Star 4 ratings, 3D option including 2D to 3D conversion, sleek new design...... seems like a fair amount of effort to me.

I could be proven wrong and maybe this will be the year they actually turn it around. Everytime I've considered Samsung in the past for LCD DLP or Plasma, I've been disappointed. I am not a Samsung hater and I have several other Samsung products that I'm happy with. I'm stating my impressions of what I've seen. If this turns out to be a good year for Samsung plasmas, then I'm happy because more good quality sets are always welcome as it raises the bar for what other companies have to do. If you decide to go for the Samsung though, don't preorder it . Wait until there's some feedback on it. Actually, if I were in the market right now I would wait a month or two anyway just to see what the stop-point for the black level rise in the 2010 Panasonics is. My understanding is that it should still be better than Samsung after the rise.

3-D I still consider in its infantile stages. It looks nice, but not nice enough for me to shell out for something that's still improving.

Get the samsung. Anything you don't like about it will probably manifest itself in the first week. The picture on the Panasonic, especially the G series will really degrade over time. The blacks will probably end up in the mid .02s or worse and I think they have a problem with floating blacks. The G Series will rise as high on the 2010s as they did on the 09s

why especially the G? i thought the rise was the same across all series.

dlplover,

You (and a lot of other pople around here!!) have nothing to say regarding the yet to be released 2010 Samsungs. Let's see what is real before we fill this forum with empty opinions.

Sorry, but I am getting tired of scrolling through endless pages of non-information.

DelJ

Not true, that was only for 2009. VT series especially starts lower and should end lower. The 2010 S series is pretty bad, but G series should be better.


Panasonic models are already out. First impressions are that the G20/25 and V20/25 are nice sets, but that depends on black level so it's a good idea to wait and see how that turns out. Similarly, I don't recommend blindly preordering a Samsung before it's even out and potential flaws are known about it. Samsung historically has had poor black levels on their plasmas and have been more IR prone than Panasonic or Pioneer. I'm skeptical of Samsung's heavy-handed marketing which is often slightly misleading. Maybe the 2D-3D will work well, maybe it won't. Maybe a new filter will help things, maybe it won't. The G25 already is out and at least to start out with it's a nice display. I restate since you somehow missed the first time that the best thing to do is to wait until they are both out and can be fairly compared. I'm not expecting anything dramatic out of Samsung since they've always disappointed me in the past when I had high hopes for them, but we'll see.

It is but the V series starts out with a lower black level so when they are done tripling they don't look quite as bad. I also don't think the v series has floating blacks, but I'm not sure.

Yeah i know the V's will start at a lower level, since they're the higher models. but the actual rise (3x) is the same across all series. I thought you meant the G series rise MORE than any of the other series.

You are right. Sometimes i confuse myself with my posts.

The reason to get a 3D tv is to watch 3D. The Samsung will let you watch everything in 3D. I have the 7000 and the 2D to 3D conversion is very good.

Do the Panasonic VT's have floating blacks? Can anyone who owns one give me feedback on this, please? Thanks!

I read somewhere in the plasma forums that an '09 50B860 flagship measured ~.02 and the V10 post-rise was similar or better. My recollection could be wrong.

Nevertheless, after my 3rd B860 buzzer (which I thought the PQ was pretty damn good), I started to do more research and felt Samsung had far inferior engineering, QA, and overall quality than Panasonic. The B860 ran very hot and heat to electronics is never good over time. Even the 860's plastic shiny frame was never straight. Go look at a 50" at your local store and you'll see what I mean. Not sure about the C series but I suspect it will be the same.

I'd imagine the post-rise on the G20/25 will be around the .015 - .02 range. If you do quite a bit of dark room viewing then go for a VT series that should end up with black levels right on or below .01.

All Panasonic models do, read around a little.

IMO the only reason to get a Panasonic over a Samsung is for the marginally better black levels and the superior customer service.

Now that we're seeing the rising black issue I feel that Samsung really has a leg up on them. I guess you still have the customer service advantage, but all performance and aesthetic advantage is safely with Samsung.

The Samsung is superior in:
Color accuracy and saturation
Video processing (marginal)
Design (huge advantage)
Black level with ambient light

Panasonic:
Inital black level in dark room
Customer service
Build quality (marginal)

Funny I had the same decision to make and picked the C7000 over the g25 as well. I'm mostly going by assumption that the picture will hopefully be as good (if not better) than last year's 800 series, should be enough to make me happy. I also like the look much better than the plain black G25. 3D features are just a bonus. Although now it seems both the 2D -> 3D conversion and ability to play 3D content over USB port are extras not available even in the much more expensive VT series.

If I get a real buzzer or picture is completely horrible than I can always return it and get something else.

ehh, i wouldn't say panny has a marginal edge in build quality. with the buzzing issue, i would say that panny has a decided edge in build quality. agree with the rest of your list though.

did you get the 3D kit? i'm curious if there is crosstalk/ghosting on the 3D plasma, because if there isn't, then this is the set i'm getting.

I think the "video processing" is questionable, but as long as we're including anecdotal stuff you can add "lower input lag," "less heat," "quieter operation" and "more resistant to image retention" to the panasonic column.

The G series is a solid set and looks pretty good out of the box. I have had my G20 for 3 days and have been very happy with it so far. Either choice you make you will probably be happy.

sure, but the buzzing is clear throughout every sammy model. why-oh-why did pioneer quit the plasma business

It will not be possible to determine where the MLL will ultimately rise to for perhaps a couple of years, or between 2000-3000 hours of use. Early measurements have not been promising, showing a nearly 50% increase in MLL within about 300 hours for both the S2 and G series panels. One early measurement of a V20 showed a MLL of .004 fL, translating to a MLL of .012 as an endpoint. If Samsung can beat/equal this last figure, then their panels should be the equal of Panasonic panels as far as black level performance is concerned.

Wes Sokolosky