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FAQ for the 3D HTPC - Page 45

post #1321 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

As the table says, yes. Use the extended desktop mode; send the primary half of the desktop, where you play videos, to the 3D display (no audio) and the secondary to AVR (video = the secondary half of the desktop + audio)

Mine is the old clarkdale core i3-530, it is not the newer core i3-2xxx series.. can it really support 3D video?

Anyway how do I send the audio signal since my motherboard (Gigabyte H55M-USB3) only has one HDMI out?
post #1322 of 1485
OK, I misunderstood your post. Core i3-530 is Clarkdale that does not support HDMI 1.4a 3D. If you want HDMI 1.4a 3D, you have to add a discrete graphics card. dGPU --> 3D display for 3D video, iGPU (or dGPU's DVI) --> AVR.

BTW Samsung LED (used to?) supports checkerboard, so Core i3-530 is enough. LG supports interleaved 3D, so Core i3-530 is enough. These 3D formats with audio can be sent to a HDMI 1.3 AVR.
post #1323 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

OK, I misunderstood your post. Core i3-530 is Clarkdale that does not support HDMI 1.4a 3D. If you want HDMI 1.4a 3D, you have to add a discrete graphics card. dGPU --> 3D display for 3D video, iGPU (or dGPU's DVI) --> AVR.

BTW Samsung LED (used to?) supports checkerboard, so Core i3-530 is enough. LG supports interleaved 3D, so Core i3-530 is enough. These 3D formats with audio can be sent to a HDMI 1.3 AVR.

My new TV is the Samsung Plasma F8500, does it support checkerboard? BTW, what is the difference between frame packing vs checkerboard?
post #1324 of 1485
I am not sure. If you already has the TV, try it.

Checkerboard 3D contains left and right eye images in 1920x1080 in a checkerboad pattern (so any GPU supports it). Frame packing 3D has left image 1920x1080 and right image 1920x1080 in 1920 x 2160.
post #1325 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I am not sure. If you already has the TV, try it.

Checkerboard 3D contains left and right eye images in 1920x1080 in a checkerboad pattern (so any GPU supports it). Frame packing 3D has left image 1920x1080 and right image 1920x1080 in 1920 x 2160.

Is there any significant quality difference between both? I'm trying to justify to get a new discreet GPU for the benefit of HDMI 1.4...
post #1326 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I am not sure. If you already has the TV, try it.

Checkerboard 3D contains left and right eye images in 1920x1080 in a checkerboad pattern (so any GPU supports it). Frame packing 3D has left image 1920x1080 and right image 1920x1080 in 1920 x 2160.

Is there any significant quality difference between both? I'm trying to justify to get a new discreet GPU for the benefit of HDMI 1.4...

No. 3D is just a fun (i.e. not serious) anyway, IMO.
post #1327 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No. 3D is just a fun (i.e. not serious) anyway, IMO.

So you mean those 3D encoded half SBS is equivalent to full bluray edition?
post #1328 of 1485
Not equivalent, of course. I said "No" to:
Quote:
Is there any significant quality difference
post #1329 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockedout View Post

Thanks for getting back so promptly. I have another notebook - Dell XPS 13 with Intel Core 3rd Generation i5-3317U (2.6G) and Intel HD Graphics 4000 which I purchased recently. The processor page at Intel's website is http://ark.intel.com/products/65707 That page lists that it supports Intel® InTru™ 3D Technology. Does that sound like it will work? Also, I need to purchase a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to connect it to the television. I found the following component at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-DisplayPort-Female-Adapter-Macbook/dp/B002HU629E. Does this part support the full 3D?
Hey guys - I'd appreciate any help I can get. Thanks!
post #1330 of 1485
i5-3317U supports HDMI 1.4a 3D (i.e Frame packing) as well as hardware decoding of MVC (BR 3D codec). If you purchase a "passive" miniDP to HDMI adapter (like the one in your post), you should be fine. No guarantee, though. smile.gif
post #1331 of 1485
renethx - Thanks for clarifying - I guess its worth a shot - Fingers crossed smile.gif
post #1332 of 1485
So which is the cheaper option to get 3D frame packing for my existing Core i3-530 setup:

1) Get a Geforce GT 430 or 630 series card to send video signal to TV directly and output sound to AVR using Intel Graphics
2) Get a Radeon 6670 to send video signal to TV directly and output sound to AVR using Intel Graphics
3) Get a active HDMI 1.4a splitter - one output to HDMI 1.4 TV and the other to HDMI 1.3 AVR
4) I saw someone just change the EDID settings on the software without adding any hardware, is this really work?
post #1333 of 1485
Get a card among

- Radeon HD 6450, 6570, 6670
- GeForce GT 520, 430, 440, 610=520, 620, 630=440

(Personally I would avoid the cheapest.) Send video from the card to 3D TV. As for audio device,

- If you choose Radeon: Use Intel as the audio device (i.e. connect onboard HDMI to AVR)
- If you choose GeForce: You can use NVIDIA (i.e. connect the DVI port of the card to AVR with a DVI-HDMI adapter) or Intel (i.e. connect onboard HDMI to AVR) as the audio device.
post #1334 of 1485
Right now I have a i5 with a Ceton card and a GT430 hooked up to a Onkyo TX-SR608 then to a Mitsu WD-73c9. I'm only using a HDMI between the PC and AVR then one from there to the TV (no dedicated audio). 3D looks great even with the desktop resized slightly down (something I couldn't say with my previous Raedon card) and overall I'm happy with the setup. I'm looking to upgrade and I wanted to know if the new Intel 4th gen i5 with a Z87 chipset motherboard (probably Asus) with built in HDMI will still support my setup for 3D. I am NOT using any type of 3D adapter or anything on the TV, just it's 3D emitter and the Mitsu glasses.


Also on a side note I do have a issue where the AVR will "redetect" the settings and go to a blank black screen then come back and in the corner say "AVR" or whatever input the TV is set for. Is this because it's trying to redetect a video signal? On major network channels (NBC HD, ABC HD, etc) this rarely if ever happens but on most other cable channels it does. Cable channel commercials do it the worst but shows with video clips (Tosh.0 for example) will do it when they switch to videos and back. Any idea what causes this? The current motherboard is a ASUS Maximus Gene 3 which did not have built in video (so no on board HDMI) and attemps to route the optical sound out to the AVR directly then the video to the TV directly failed miserably.
post #1335 of 1485
WD-73C9 supports only checkerboard 3D format. It is just a normal HDMI 1.3 1920x1080p 60Hz signal with left and right video frames downsampled in a checkerboard pattern, then combined to a single frame. That means you can use any GPU and any AVR as long as your player can send 3D in this format (PowerDVD and TMT are such players).
post #1336 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by vseven View Post

Right now I have a i5 with a Ceton card and a GT430 hooked up to a Onkyo TX-SR608 then to a Mitsu WD-73c9. I'm only using a HDMI between the PC and AVR then one from there to the TV (no dedicated audio). 3D looks great even with the desktop resized slightly down (something I couldn't say with my previous Raedon card) and overall I'm happy with the setup. I'm looking to upgrade and I wanted to know if the new Intel 4th gen i5 with a Z87 chipset motherboard (probably Asus) with built in HDMI will still support my setup for 3D. I am NOT using any type of 3D adapter or anything on the TV, just it's 3D emitter and the Mitsu glasses.


Also on a side note I do have a issue where the AVR will "redetect" the settings and go to a blank black screen then come back and in the corner say "AVR" or whatever input the TV is set for. Is this because it's trying to redetect a video signal? On major network channels (NBC HD, ABC HD, etc) this rarely if ever happens but on most other cable channels it does. Cable channel commercials do it the worst but shows with video clips (Tosh.0 for example) will do it when they switch to videos and back. Any idea what causes this? The current motherboard is a ASUS Maximus Gene 3 which did not have built in video (so no on board HDMI) and attemps to route the optical sound out to the AVR directly then the video to the TV directly failed miserably.

Is this only occurring in WMC, if so it may not be what you think as there is an issue with NVidia that for me at least only occurs with WMC in full screen on cable content. The solution is in the NVidia control pane. Go to Adjust Desktop Color Settings. Look down toward the bottom after Digital Color Format and change it to Full-Screen Videos. This issue drove me nutz as it will implement itself in different way depending on the mainboard etc. If it is set to Auto it will cause screen blanking or maybe audio blanking on some content or channels. I asked over here forever and finally found something on it at TGB. I knew it was the solution because just a couple of days before I found it did not happen if WMC was playing in a Window. Your problem could be something else but definitely make sure you have it set to Full-Screen Video not Automatic.
post #1337 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Get a card among

- Radeon HD 6450, 6570, 6670
- GeForce GT 520, 430, 440, 610=520, 620, 630=440

(Personally I would avoid the cheapest.) Send video from the card to 3D TV. As for audio device,

- If you choose Radeon: Use Intel as the audio device (i.e. connect onboard HDMI to AVR)
- If you choose GeForce: You can use NVIDIA (i.e. connect the DVI port of the card to AVR with a DVI-HDMI adapter) or Intel (i.e. connect onboard HDMI to AVR) as the audio device.

Between GeForce vs Radeon, which is the overall better performer in terms of 2D and 3D video?
post #1338 of 1485
Basically identical. The graphics card's only role is decode MVC (Blu-ray 3D video codec) and send decoded video frames over HDMI to TV. Personally I prefer AMD because it works perfect right out of the box.
post #1339 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Basically identical. The graphics card's only role is decode MVC (Blu-ray 3D video codec) and send decoded video frames over HDMI to TV. Personally I prefer AMD because it works perfect right out of the box.

How about the EDID override? http://rcartv.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19951019, is this is really work, why would the need of HDMI 1.4a?

I saw your earlier thread saying that the ATI Radeon would not work because the card does not allow for dual display or something like that... the post -> http://rcartv.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21122837#post_21122837

So if this works, all I need to do is to install the Radeon card say 6670, connect a HDMI from this card to the TV directly, connect the other HDMI from the Intel iGPU to the AVR for sound, then set my PC for extended display? Am I correct? Just wanna reconfirm again before I buy the new card.
Edited by echoesian - 6/23/13 at 3:50am
post #1340 of 1485
A single GPU is enough if it supports dual audio stream:
Code:
GPU --> HDMI 1.4a 3D video over HDMI  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D TV
GPU --> audio over HDMI               --> HDMI 1.3 AVR

(The second HDMI can be DVI + DVI-HDMI adapter or DP + passive DP-HDMI adapter.)

As Radeon does not support dual audio stream, you need a separate audio device, that can be onboard audio (analog, S/PDIF) or another HDMI graphics card.
Code:
Radeon GPU  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D video over HDMI  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D TV
Another GPU --> audio over HDMI               --> HDMI 1.3 AVR

A question is: Why two audio devices are necessary when 3D video without audio is sent to 3D TV? An audio device of GPU is always assigned to the primary display = 3D TV whether audio is actually sent or not. If there is another audio device in GPU, it will be assigned to AVR. If not (e.g. Radeon), you will need another GPU.
Edited by renethx - 6/23/13 at 4:09am
post #1341 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

A single GPU is enough if it supports dual audio stream:
Code:
GPU --> HDMI 1.4a 3D video over HDMI  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D TV
GPU --> audio over HDMI               --> HDMI 1.3 AVR

(The second HDMI can be DVI + DVI-HDMI adapter or DP + passive DP-HDMI adapter.)

As Radeon does not support dual audio stream, you need a separate audio device, that can be onboard audio (analog, S/PDIF) or another HDMI graphics card.
Code:
Radeon GPU  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D video over HDMI  --> HDMI 1.4a 3D TV
Another GPU --> audio over HDMI               --> HDMI 1.3 AVR

(The only audio device of the Radeon GPU is always assigned to the primary display = 3D TV.)

Ok for option (2), I assume the other GPU I can use is the Intel iGPU, do I need to do any settings on the Windows OS side?

Can I ask, since the job of the GPU is only sending the MVC signal, can I assume the cheapest Radeon card (e.g. 6450) will perform the same as with its higher end card for 3D video playback purpose?
post #1342 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoesian View Post

Ok for option (2), I assume the other GPU I can use is the Intel iGPU, do I need to do any settings on the Windows OS side?

Can I ask, since the job of the GPU is only sending the MVC signal, can I assume the cheapest Radeon card (e.g. 6450) will perform the same as with its higher end card for 3D video playback purpose?

- Select: In BIOS setup > Advanced BIOS Features > Onboard VGA: Always Enable (Always activates the onboard graphics, whether or not a PCI Express card is installed.)
- Enable your AVR in extended desktop mode in Windows display setting.
- Select the correct audio device (in a second GPU) as the "default" audio device in Sound control panel.

That's it. HD 6450 is enough. (If you want fancy video post-processors in 2D such as MadVR, you will want a better GPU.)
Edited by renethx - 6/23/13 at 4:28am
post #1343 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Select: In BIOS setup > Advanced BIOS Features > Onboard VGA: Always Enable (Always activates the onboard graphics, whether or not a PCI Express card is installed.)
- Enable your AVR in extended desktop mode in Windows display setting.
- Select the correct audio device (in a second GPU) as the "default" audio device in Sound control panel.

That's it. HD 6450 is enough. (If you want fancy video post-processors in 2D such as MadVR, you will want a better GPU.)

When you say better GPU, which is at least the least better one, 6570 or 6670 or etc??

I notice the 6450 is only 64-bit while the 6570 and 6670 has 128-bit and the 6670 is running with DDR5 RAM instead of DDR3. Does this make a significant difference in video processing?
post #1344 of 1485
Code:
                      Movie                     
------------------------------------------------
        | Level 2 | Level 3 | Level 4 | Level 5 
------------------------------------------------
HD 6450 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6570 |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    
HD 6670 |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    |    ○
Code:
                      Video                     
------------------------------------------------
        | Level 2 | Level 3 | Level 4 | Level 5 
------------------------------------------------
HD 6450 |    ×    |    ×    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6570 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6670 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×

where

○: supported
×: not supported

Read this thread for the meaning of Level #.
Edited by renethx - 6/23/13 at 2:37pm
post #1345 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Is this only occurring in WMC, if so it may not be what you think as there is an issue with NVidia that for me at least only occurs with WMC in full screen on cable content. The solution is in the NVidia control pane. Go to Adjust Desktop Color Settings. Look down toward the bottom after Digital Color Format and change it to Full-Screen Videos. This issue drove me nutz as it will implement itself in different way depending on the mainboard etc. If it is set to Auto it will cause screen blanking or maybe audio blanking on some content or channels. I asked over here forever and finally found something on it at TGB. I knew it was the solution because just a couple of days before I found it did not happen if WMC was playing in a Window. Your problem could be something else but definitely make sure you have it set to Full-Screen Video not Automatic.


Yes it only did it in WMC and I also get around it by switching to windowed mode and just expanding the window to cover the screen. I just changed the setting and so far so good on cable channels even during commercial breaks. I can here my AVR switching modes between commercials but the screen isn't blinking and redetecting.

I've been trying to fix this forever....thank you very much.
post #1346 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Code:
                      Movie                     
------------------------------------------------
        | Level 2 | Level 3 | Level 4 | Level 5 
------------------------------------------------
HD 6450 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6570 |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    
HD 6670 |    ○    |    ○    |    ○    |    ○
Code:
                      Video                     
------------------------------------------------
        | Level 2 | Level 3 | Level 4 | Level 5 
------------------------------------------------
HD 6450 |    ×    |    ×    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6570 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×    
HD 6670 |    ○    |    ○    |    ×    |    ×

where

○: supported
×: not supported

Read this thread for the meaning of Level #.

Sorry the posts are quite technical, would you mind to simplify the explanation pls?
post #1347 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcc View Post

I wound up upgrading to a radeon 6450 to get hardware accelerated 3d playback. However, I've found that hardware acceleration doesn't work unless I turn off "Enforce Smooth Video Playback" (ESVP) in the catalyst video settings. This is true for both powerdvd 12 & tmt 5. I tried most of the catalyst drivers - version 11.4 thru 12.4 - same problem.

When ESVP is on (which is the default), both players report that DXVA hardware acceleration is off.

Both the TMT and cyberlink forums have users beating their heads against the wall over 3d playback with no real answers from the vendors, and I suspect this is their real problem. With the catalyst driver not defaulting to a working setting for 3d it's no wonder.


I suspect I wouldn't have had this problem with a higher end radeon such as the 6570 or 7750, but I was really going for the low TDP.

Wow...same problem here that I had been dealing with for months until I found this post...disabling ESVP works for me too! CPU usage now below 20%. Thanks!
post #1348 of 1485
Does the 6450 lagging in 3D blu-ray playback? How does the 6450 compare with the GT620 ?
post #1349 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Select: In BIOS setup > Advanced BIOS Features > Onboard VGA: Always Enable (Always activates the onboard graphics, whether or not a PCI Express card is installed.)
- Enable your AVR in extended desktop mode in Windows display setting.
- Select the correct audio device (in a second GPU) as the "default" audio device in Sound control panel.

That's it. HD 6450 is enough. (If you want fancy video post-processors in 2D such as MadVR, you will want a better GPU.)

Just curious, if it the Windows is set to extended, wouldn't that I need to drag the windows over to the extended window? This is what I've been doing when projecting screen using extended mode for presentation, maybe XBMC is behaving differently?
post #1350 of 1485
In many cases a window remembers its last position. Some windows / applications in full screen mode open only in the primary display. So basically there should be nothing to worry about (unless you use your AVR as the primary display).

BTW UltraMon (a commercial multi-display utility) has an option "Ignored Monitors":
Quote:
Unused monitors can be ignored, and will then no longer be visible in the user interface.

where the unused monitor would be your AVR (you can still send audio to it). You can also create a keyboard shortcut to move the active window to the next display.
Edited by renethx - 7/4/13 at 1:02pm
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