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FAQ for the 3D HTPC - Page 31

post #901 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post

I am looking at building a small mini ITX based system. I have been looking at the AMD E-350 based motherboards which have been getting good reviews.

I have scoured the Internet until I got dizzy with all the code names - Brazos, Llano, Hudson, etc, etc. but I CANNOT find a reliable answer to a simple question: will the E-350 APU support Blu-Ray 3D in the same way as the 6670 I use in my current system?

Meaning works with TMT5 to automatically notify my LG TV that it is sending 3D with no manual intervention required.

I used to think that requires HDMI 1.4a support but after reading all the confusing information about the E-350 I am not so sure anymore.

It seems the E-450 APU is confirmed to have 1.4 but there are no mITX boards with that chip yet.

Other option is to go with a H67 based board and an i3 processor but that will be significantly more expensive. I have to use IGP since I need the PCI express slot for a tuner card.

No, E-350's UVD does not support MVC decode acceleration (much more important than the HDMI 1.4a 3D format capability for a weak processor like Zacate), it's reliable because I and several other users confirmed it by actual tests. Is this so confusing? Who on earth spread the information that E-350 supports MVC decode acceleration?

The cheapest BR 3D solution right now is AMD A4-3300/3400 + A55/A75 chipset mb. Celeron/Pentium SNB supports MVC decode, but does not support HDMI 1.4 3D (i.e. frame packing).
post #902 of 1485
Quote:


Who on earth spread the information that E-350 supports MVC decode acceleration?

Well, I don't think anyone said it exactly in those words, but the specs say the E-350 GPU is the 6310 which according to AMD supports UVD 3. And UVD 3 does MVC. But the specs on amd.com actually refer to the 6310M (Mobility Radeon), not the E-350 APU.

ECS claims their E-350 based mITX board HDC-I will play Blu-ray 3D.

But this article at Tom's Hardware says the E-350 UVD3 implementation really is "UVD 2 1/2" as it does not have MVC decoding.

So yes, there is some confusion.

Quote:


The cheapest BR 3D solution right now is AMD A4-3300/3400 + A55/A75 chipset mb. Celeron/Pentium SNB supports MVC decode, but does not support HDMI 1.4 3D (i.e. frame packing).

Only 2 mITX boards available here (Asrock A75-M, Asus F1A75-I Deluxe) and they are not significantly cheaper than their 1155 counterparts. Also a Core i3-2105 and an A6-3650 are exactly the same price while the a4-3300 is about half the price of the A6-3650. There is also the A6-3500 which is a 65W triple core priced in between.

The 3650 is 100W TDP though so might not be ideal for a small mITX system. So right now I am leaning towards the A6-3500 with the Asus board. I would prefer AMD before Intel because it works well with TMT.

Opinions?
post #903 of 1485
A6-3500 + Asus F1A75-I Deluxe is a good choice if you prefer AMD to Intel graphics (triple core is good for 2D-3D conversion). But how do you see AMD works better with TMT than Intel?
post #904 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

A6-3500 + Asus F1A75-I Deluxe is a good choice if you prefer AMD to Intel graphics (triple core is good for 2D-3D conversion). But how do you see AMD works better with TMT than Intel?

Good catch. I think I should have said "because I know ATI works well with TMT" - maybe Intel does too, as I haven't tried.

Also sticking with the AMD processor may allow me to just drop the SSD from my existing Phenom based system into the new one and have it boot up and reconfigure/reactivate. Saves a lot of time not having to reinstall from scratch.

Have just put in the order for the A6-3500 and the Asus board. Got the Asus board for just a little more than the Asrock.
post #905 of 1485
does all Fermi video card support 120hz refresh rate?
post #906 of 1485
Troubles with gt430

I got lipsync problem with x64 & XBMC. With 2d it is fixeable through a delay on the audio. On 3d it non-fixable.

When i use XBMC under linux everything runs smooth in 2d. No lipsync problem but also no 3D bluray support.

Any tips ?
post #907 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Last night I managed to set the PJ to 1080i as well, this allowed me to get PC video on the PJ through the receiver.

But as soon as I change to 3D - I either get garbage or nothing.

I was wondering whether this is a cable problem - even though when directly connected tot he PC, PJ works with the cable I'm using.

Just to confirm - yes it was the cable. I'm running 35' cable from PC to the receiver and then from receiver to the PJ.

I tested with shorter cables by temporarily moving the receiver - and it works with 3D and even 1080p60.

Anyone using longer HDMI cables (20' or more) checkout the HDMI FAQ area. The FAQ in the first post could be updated to include this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...prune=30&f=168

or the Home A/V distribution area

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...ysprune=7&f=36
post #908 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Is your AVR HDMI 1.4a or 1.3?
...For a HDMI 1.3 AVR: Intel or NVIDIA is the only choice (because they support dual audio stream and it is pretty easy to select the audio device you like); connect HDMI or DVI (with a DVI-HDMI adapter) of the card to the display for 3D video, connect DVI (with a DVI-HDMI adapter) or HDMI of the card to AVR for audio.

renethx,
Where did you find this "dual audio stream" information about Intel and NVIDIA? I have an HDMI 1.3 AVR, so this is important info for me when I choose which 3D graphics card to buy for my HTPC, and until now I had been leaning toward Radeon...perhaps in ignorance.
post #909 of 1485
nVidia supports audio over both of the card outputs (DVI and HDMI). You can connect either one to the AVR and the other to your display device. Both will carry the lossless audio signal.
post #910 of 1485
Is there a way to get 2D->3D conversion on HTPC using Blu-Ray as the source ? PowerDVD 11 does the conversion on anything but Blu-Ray (is that a processing power issue ?). Is there something - either run time or just slow conversion to a file - that can do the conversion on a BD ?
post #911 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Is there a way to get 2D->3D conversion on HTPC using Blu-Ray as the source ? PowerDVD 11 does the conversion on anything but Blu-Ray (is that a processing power issue ?). Is there something - either run time or just slow conversion to a file - that can do the conversion on a BD ?

Try playing the Blu-ray m2ts file from the bdmv/stream folder. You can apply 3D conversion to that.
post #912 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Try playing the Blu-ray m2ts file from the bdmv/stream folder. You can apply 3D conversion to that.

Oh yes. Thanks for the pointer.

Infact I realized I should just convert to mkv and then I don't have to deal with multiple m2ts files.

But it is kind of lame for PDVD to not support this when playing BD - but do so when playing the same content in mkv/ts.
post #913 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by roknrol View Post

nVidia supports audio over both of the card outputs (DVI and HDMI). You can connect either one to the AVR and the other to your display device. Both will carry the lossless audio signal.

OK, but please cite the reference source for this important information.
post #914 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

OK, but please cite the reference source for this important information.

I don't think there is NVIDIA's official information on this. Tons (?) of GeForce card owners, including me, are using HDMI (or DVI + a generic DVI-HDMI adapter) for video and DVI + a generic DVI-HDMI adapter (or HDMI) for audio with no problem. Intel SNB also supports this configuration (with ASRock mb). AMD: yes only when the display does not support audio.
post #915 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I don't think there is NVIDIA's official information on this. Tons (?) of GeForce card owners, including me, are using HDMI (or DVI + a generic DVI-HDMI adapter) for video and DVI + a generic DVI-HDMI adapter (or HDMI) for audio with no problem...

Thanks renethx,
I thought I was missing something obvious in the spec details for the nvidia cards.
I, too, need a separate audio connection for use with my AVR w/ HDMI 1.3. The nvidia card I'm considering is a 2GB GeForce GT530 (OEM), which has the following display connectors: HDMI (1.4a), VGA, DVI-I, and DP. I seem to recall reading somewhere that nvidia cards with a DP connector will not pass the advanced audio codecs over DVI. Do you know whether this is true or not?
post #916 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

OK, but please cite the reference source for this important information.

i am using a GT430 and doing the same thing for a HDMI 1.3 AVR and 3D HDTV

only info I found before purchase was on here and the TMT forums

every now and then I have to turn the AVR off and back on to recognize the signal, but otherwise everything works perfectly

not sure about the DVI and DP question on the gt530
post #917 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by solenoid View Post

Troubles with gt430

I got lipsync problem with x64 & XBMC. With 2d it is fixeable through a delay on the audio. On 3d it non-fixable.

When i use XBMC under linux everything runs smooth in 2d. No lipsync problem but also no 3D bluray support.

Any tips ?

same problem with lipsync with GT430 and TMT5 on 3D movies
nvidia driver version 280.26 for me
post #918 of 1485
hello!

does DVI support 3D frame packing?

using any DVi to HDmi converter or i need dvi with audio to hdmi adapter?
(even if i dont care about audio)
post #919 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

hello!

does DVI support 3D frame packing?

using any DVi to HDmi converter or i need dvi with audio to hdmi adapter?
(even if i dont care about audio)

What graphics card are you using?
post #920 of 1485
i use an Ati 5770 and i am going to change it cause of frame packing
i am going to buy an nvidia one to connent the HDMI to the receiver
and the DVI to the TV,
the problem is that the tv only accepts HDMI.
a simple DVi-HDMI adapter will do that,
or i need an dvi with audio to hdmi adapter?
post #921 of 1485
HD 5770 supports both MVC (BR 3D codec) decode acceleration and HDMI 1.4a 3D video format (Frame packing) over HDMI/DVI. I tested with AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter (then Frame packing + HD audio is supported over DVI).
post #922 of 1485
I ran across a rumor that "second generation" Xpand X103 glasses could be used with the nVidia 3D Vision emitter. Any truth to that? Also, what's happened with the X104 ... vaporware?
post #923 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by roknrol View Post

I ran across a rumor that "second generation" Xpand X103 glasses could be used with the nVidia 3D Vision emitter. Any truth to that? Also, what's happened with the X104 ... vaporware?

Xpan x103 is for non-dlp TVs. (nVidia 3D TV Play) while xpan x102 for dlp tvs or pjs. (nVidia 3D Vision).

If we are talking about nVidia's emitter, you will need x102.
You will need at least one nVidia emitter to install nVidia drivers and it should be switched on while you are using xpan x102 eye-wear even xpan doesn't use the signals of nVidia's emitter.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post19757023

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19837944
post #924 of 1485
I should have clarified - I'm researching any possible IR alternatives to the nVidia glasses to use with a 3D Vision setup. I have one pair and the emitter kit, but would like a few more sets -- just not at $100 a pop.

Fry's (briefly) had the X103s advertised for $39 earlier this week -- thus my question. I found a post somewhere that hinted that Xpand might have added the 3D Vision IR code to a second generation of X103s ... but that may have been a red herring.

With the new nVidia glasses (3D Vision 2) arriving later this month, maybe the prices on the remaining stock of old-style nVidia glasses will drop. (Here's hoping.)
post #925 of 1485
Can anybody help with GPU for HTPC that will have full support of 3D Bluray. ?
Becose I find out that, Full 3D supporting GPUs – only High End gaming cards ???
Only GTX 460/550 Ti and above support 3D Bluray. GT 430/440/520 only support 3D Photo/Regular Video.
With AMD, only HD5000 series and HD6850 and above support 3D.

That mean, example – Nvidia 430 or AMD 6570 are not supporting ….
post #926 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomas View Post

Can anybody help with GPU for HTPC that will have full support of 3D Bluray. ?
Becose I find out that, Full 3D supporting GPUs – only High End gaming cards ???
Only GTX 460/550 Ti and above support 3D Bluray. GT 430/440/520 only support 3D Photo/Regular Video.
With AMD, only HD5000 series and HD6850 and above support 3D.

That mean, example – Nvidia 430 or AMD 6570 are not supporting ….

The information is wrong. First BR 3D "support" is ambiguous. It's the software player (typically TMT or PowerDVD) that reads BR 3D, decodes MVC (Multiview Video Coding, the BR 3D video codec) and converts to a 3D video format (there are many 3D formats, depending on your 3D display). The roles of the graphics card are:

- Accelerate MVC decoding. If CPU is powerful enough (e.g. triple core or more), this may not be necessary.
- Send 3D video format to the display. Some formats are within HDMI 1.3 specs (e.g. Side by Side (Half), Top and Bottom, checkerboard, interleaved). In this case almost any graphics card is fine. Frame packing is HDMI 1.4a and requires the latest graphics card.

 

  HD 5450-5670 HD 5750- HD 6310 (E-350) HD 6xxx (E-450, A Series, dGPU), HD 7xxx GT 210-240 GTS/X 250- GT(X) 430-460/520-560/all 6xx GTX 465/570- Intel HD Graphics (Celeron/Pentium SNB) Intel HD Graphics 2k/2.5k/3k/4k (Core i3/i5/i7 SNB/IVB)
MVC hardware decode No Yes No Yes Yes No Yes Yes Yes Yes
HDMI 1.4a 3D (Frame packing) Yes Yes - Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes No Yes
Frame packing to 3D display + HD audio to HDMI 1.3 AVR No No - No Yes (LPCM only) No Yes Yes (LPCM only) - Yes
Frame packing + HD audio to HDMI 1.4a AVR / 3D display Yes Yes - Yes Yes (LPCM only) No Yes Yes (LPCM only) - Yes

 

Remarks on the two cable solution of HD audio to HDMI 1.3 AVR and 3D video to the display

1. This works if and only if HD audio controller of the GPU supports dual audio stream, and only NVIDA and Intel GPUs support it. One audio stream is assigned to AVR, the "secondary" display, the other to the 3D display, "primary" display, in extended desktop mode. Select AVR as the sound playback device in the player. BTW HDMI and DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter are completely equivalent in NVIDIA and Intel (audio over DVI port is disabled in some LGA 1155 mb, however).

2. AMD HD 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx GPU behaves differently. Usually you will see an HDMI connector and a DVI connector and/or a DisplayPort connector in the GPU and any of:

 

- HDMI connector

- DP connector with a passive DP-HDMI adapter

- DVI connector with AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter

 

works as a HDMI 1.4a connector that supports Frame Packing 3D video, HD audio and YCbCr color space as well as RGB. However if two displays are connected to the GPU at the same time, then only one connector works as HDMI and the other connector always works as DVI (no Frame Packing 3D video, no audio, only RGB color space). Precisely speaking, if you use HDMI and DP/DVI, then HDMI always works as HDMI and DP/DVI works as DVI; If you use DP and DVI, then DP always works as HDMI and DVI as DVI. In other words, HDMI-likeness decreases in this order:

 

HDMI > DP > DVI

 

That means, unlike NVIDIA and Intel, you can't send Frame Pakcing 3D video over one of the connector and HD audio over another (you can still send other 3D formats such as checkerboard, SBS, TAB, interleaved, however). Apparently this is because of a limitation of the HD audio controller of AMD GPU, i.e. non-support for dual audio stream.

 

A workaround is use another GPU to send HD audio:

 

a) If it is a discrete AMD GPU and your CPU is Intel Clarkdale/SNB/IVY or AMD APU, then activate its GPU and use it to send audio.

b) If it is a discrete AMD GPU and your CPU does not have integrated GPU, then add another cheap GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20) for audio. The second graphics card works even with a PCI Express x1 slot! (Just cut the closed end to make it an open end.)

c) If it is iGPU of AMD APU, then add a cheap discrete GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20) for audio.


Edited by renethx - 6/24/12 at 3:44am
post #927 of 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The information is wrong. First BR 3D support is ambiguous. It's mainly the player's role that reads BR 3D, converts to a raw 3D video format (there are many, depending on your 3D display), send it to the graphics card. The graphics card's roles are:

- Accelerate MVC (BR 3D video codec) decoding. If CPU is powerful enough (e.g. triple core or more), this may not be necessary.
- Send 3D video format to the display. Some formats are within HDMI 1.3 specs (e.g. Side by Side, Top and Bottom, checkerboard, interleaved). In this case almost any graphics card is fine. Frame packing is HDMI 1.4a and requires the latest graphics card.
  HD 5450/5570/5670 HD 5750- HD 6xxx GT(X) 2xx GT(X) 430-460/520-560 GTX 465/570- Celeron/Pentium SNB Core i3/i5/i7 SNB
MVC decode No Yes Yes No Yes Yes Yes Yes
HDMI 1.4a 3D (Frame packing) Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes No Yes
HD audio in Frame packing via HDMI 1.3 AVR (DVI+HDMI) No No No No Yes No - Yes
HD audio in Frame packing via HDMI 1.4a AVR Yes Yes Yes No Yes No - Yes

Thanks renethx - can you recommend some GPU, looking for - single bracket, silent (passive cooling will be ideal), have to do light gaming, 3D support for 3D moves.
post #928 of 1485
Check ASUS GT 430 Fanless.
post #929 of 1485
Thanks, but I believe that 430 not very good to do any gaming at all, but maybe I am wrong. What you opinion about AMD support for 3D ? I was looking for this - http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...n=&lid=1&leg=0
For my understanding, that card have to be more powerful then 430 ?
post #930 of 1485
Yes, HD 6570 (DDR3-1800) is better than GT 430 (DDR3-1600) (by ~15%-20%).
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