Netflix+Linux+petition=????

IMO, closed services with DRM should be used with closed hardware, like the Roku, AppleTV, iPad, etc.

General purpose PC's and Linux are open and should always be open and free (speech).

Netflix would require a DRM'd plugin and video path, so only closed OS's like OSX and Windows.

I used to get frustrated by this, feeling we (FOSS/Linux users) are "missing out" on things like NF streaming, but then you realize that you don't *want* closed services anyways.

If we slowly add DRM'd services and plugins to Linux, it will eventually be no different than OSX or Windows, functionally or philosophically. I'd rather have my OS remain philosophically in the Right, at least...

...besides, I'm still reading a lot of forum posts all over the net that the selection in NF streaming still isn't great anyways. Plus, if the Comcasts/$EVIL_ISP's of the world get their way re: net neutrality (see recent FCC court ruling), say bye-bye to the NF streaming or Amazon OnDemands of the world...

That seems to be a bit of a stretch, that if Comcast is allowed to rate-limit BT transfers, that you can say bye-bye to NetFlix streaming or Amazon OnDemand.

Howso?

NF and Amazon video streams compete with the ISP's cable video on demand services. Why *wouldn't* they block/rate limit competing video sources if there is no regulation prohibiting blocking/rate limiting?

*rant* Up here in Canada, we have no streaming services for video (well there is web site streaming but nothing on the level of Hulu or Netflix).

I just want to watch TV on my computer. Man, because of where I live I can't even do that on Windows. :P

I beg to differ, DRM was abandoned on music and the same will happen eventually on movies, mark my words.

Also do you really want Linux to be a mainstream desktop platform? I don't, as it would lose most of it strengths and become just another dumbed down OS for clueless mainstream PC users.

...beat me to the punch on both points...

It disappeared on music because Apple and other companies slowly removed the restrictions until there was none left.

If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out. But if it is placed in cold water and is slowly heated, it will die a slow, painful (and quite deserving) death.


Linux' strengths are the lack of lock-in and configurability. How will that be lost if it becomes mainstream? In fact, isn't freedom something we should advocate and share?

Beware of that phrase, that phrase has been used so many times in history to justify all sorts of atrocities...

Personally I don't see any greater good in getting Netflix (even if I was living in the US and actually could use it). Also I don't see the future of streaming video being proprietary DRMed services like Netflix. Peer-to-peer is waaay to entrenched to be ever beaten by these services, it's more likely that eventually someone will figure out how to make a legal file sharing service where the content owner get a reasonable fee without all the overhead that a service like Netflix causes.

Think of it, streaming (one-to-many) like Netflix does is a 90's technology, technology has long evolved to peer-to-peer streaming which is a lot more efficient and cheaper for the contetn providers. There is no turning back, the movie industry will have to face reality eventually and make a business out of peer-to-peer.


Don't give Apple the credit for it, Apple is the most closed controlling company there is, more than MS (and that means a lot). Apple wasn't the first to give up DRM on music and they only did it due to customer pressure.

I disagree, I can only speak for Mandriva as I have used Ubuntu and Suse too little but I doubt they are much different in this respect. There are a few minor aspects that have been dumbed down, but in practice I can still configure anything I want to meet my personal taste by editing config files as has always been the case with Linux.
The Mandriva GUI config tools (MCC) might seem limited to an expert (but they are quite good for most purposes especially for newbies), but they don't prevent an expert to edit the config files directly in any way.

If anything Gnome has always been a very dumbed down desktop environment, that's maybe why you are saying that about Ubuntu since it uses Gnome by default, but noone stops you from switching to a better DE.

Yes.


What you mention are procedural and technological issues that can be easily overcome (for example a service based on a flat monthly fee doesn't really have to know who watches what how many times), the main hurdle is getting the movie industry to accept what the music industry has already accepted: that there is no future for them in DRM so they either drop the DRM or they lose the money (their current business model is on the road to nowhere, they either adapt to the new realities or they die).


The pressure simply comes from the wast amounts of people who simply ignore these restricted DRMed services and use free peer-to-peer or usenet downloads or rapidshare downloads, etc...
Did you know that the 3 strikes rule in France has actually increased peer-to-peer use there?
Simply because people now know they don't face any risk at least until after they have been caught twice!

Also more and more people want to watch streaming videos on their media players (popcorn hour etc) and on those devices Netflix is not working either, so it's not just Linux users.

Wrong, but as you said let's not get political. One cheeky reply doesn't reveal anything about my political ideas, if anything my past debates with quantumstate are more revealing.



Lost business is lost business, if it's down to active customer pressure or customers doing copyright violation (btw, pure downloads are perfectly legal in many countries, uploads probably nowhere) makes no difference to the bottom line of the movie industry.


Sure but if popcorn hour works out some proprietary deal (as they are doing for the Popbox) with Netflix then that won't help you as a desktop Linux user at all.

Also viceversa, if Netflix writes a DRMed client for Linux that doesn't mean it will run on the limited hardware of a media player (even if the OS is the same).

I currently use my parents' netflix account on my Xbox 360. I have a 360 because I like competitive social gaming. There is no open equivalent. I use netflix because it costs me nothing and gives me access to tons of content. (They just added almost all of King of the Hill!) I would pay for DRM'ed Netflix in linux.

I do hate DRM though. I hate that Hollywood would rather "license" you a movie than let you own it. I hate that Blu Ray and 3D enforce this by getting people to repurchase the SAME media with little "added value". The execs don't want us to have digital libraries because they are permanent (when properly backed up) and cut into the "licensing" they live off of from tv networks.

I don't like that at any moment Netflix could drop King of the Hill and I couldn't show my friends my favorite episodes. When recording from TV though, networks have started issuing generic episode information so I can't categorize episodes automatically. (The Simpsons is especially guilty of this.) Netflix gives me the content I want with the only alternative being to not watch it or pirate it. It's far from ideal, but I make the same sacrifice I make for gaming.

DRM for movies is going to stay until bandwidth allows for DVDs/BluRay to download at the quality and speed of current full length albums. When it becomes that trivial to pirate, the model has to change (as it has with music). What is the model that can support DRM free movies? It has to beat the pirating model.

Wait, wait wait! You mean I don't have to burn DRM removal CDs anymore??? Where the heck have I been?

Yes Apple is very controlling, but for the sake of being fair, ire is due to the RIAA and MPAA, that is where the push for DRM actually starts.

What are 'DRM removal CDs'? Are you talking about those CDs with intentionally defective sectors? That's not really DRM at all, it's a very crude and ineffective attempt at copy protection (which is not the same as DRM).

Are those still around? I though they had given up on that, at least here in Europe where loads of people brought them back to the stores for a refund because they didn't play in their car stereos.

Anyway, I meant DRM on downloaded music, like from the itunes store or amazon.

No, a (what I call) DRM removal CD is an audio CD that I make and burn full of music from the iTunes store loaded with the DRM garbage. When iTunes converts the files into AAC for audio CD player use, the DRM is eliminated. I would then rerip the same disk to 320 MP3s without DRM. It was my crude way of eliminating the DRM from my music.

I would tend to agree if Apple was only controlling with regards to media downloads, but when you look at their iphone apps store rules and all their other lock-ins then it's quite clear that Apple themselves is controlling regardless of the extra pressure from RIAA and MPAA.

I don't use the itunes store, but I thought any new downloads are plain DRM free files these days?
Are you talking about files you bought before they started selling DRM-free files?
AFAIK you can buy DRM free mp3 from the itune store these days, you certainly can from amazon.

Apple is a company of restrictions. I say that as an owner of both a Macbook and an iPhone. They should be the first and number-one target of the open source community.

They are much worse than Microsoft in every conceivable way.

And that's what I was surprised to read! I didn't know (mostly because I just don't keep up with it) that the files were DRM free. Guess I can quit wasting CDs then!

What changed everything regarding DRM?

The influence of Amazon and eMusic and the fact that Apple was willing to trade their lower prices for the removal of DRM.

Apple would have never been able to remove Fairplay, and probably never would have wanted to, if it wasn't for Amazon and eMusic nipping at their toes.

Well, good ridens to that DRM Fairplay crap.

Is Amazon and eMusic a better source for music than the iTunes store?

Depends on where you live and what you want.

The iTunes Music Store has some really obscure stuff and Amazon is US only.