Time Machine - Page 18

Bob, what kind of streaming media is it? If you're using a windows PC, it may be lurking in your Internet temp files even though you haven't actually saved it. If it was a Realpayer file, look for files with a .rm or .ram extension in your IExxxxx directories under the main windows temp files directory. Sorry if your way ahead of me on this...

Fred

Sorry, Fred, I just looked for it and don't see it.
I do want you to hear this so I'll make you a cassette and mail it to you. PM me your mailing address.

Bob

Has anyone else read 'The Hunt For Zero' point?
According to it, during WWII, the Germans were working on anti gravity propulsion, free energy, and time travel.
There is some evidence that they were sucessful.
This book was written by the aviation editor of Janes Defense Weekly.
Highly recommended by me.

Frank

So, Bob, what's the latest on Lazar?

Gus

The book has been thoroughly debunked by several people. Here is an article that touches on the book:
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2072733

I wouldn't say it's been 'thoroughly debunked' at all.
The force effect of asymetrical charges is well established and even NASA has a patent on it.

Frank

I am in the process of testing this effect myself.

Frank

I wonder if in 1491 the same shenanigans were taking place as we see today. Were there people then who sat and around and dreamed up fictitious stories about making contact with beings who lived beyond the edge of the ocean? Were there mysterious sightings of USO's (unidientified sailing objects)? Was there a Bob Lazar back then who claimed to have examined a captured USO?

1. Anyone can get a patent and the fact that Nasa chose to get one (if they did) proves what? That the books thesis is correct?
2. Regarding your generalized and non-specific statement regarding assymetrical charges, if the book states that the world is round does that prove that the entire book is accurate?

Hey QQQ, is this another case of a book you critique that you haven't read?

Frank

I leant my copy of the book to an employee of mine who used to work for Northrup.
I await his opinion as he will have actually read it.

Two things are making it very difficult to ascertain what is reality and what is bu*****t.

1. lying has become the national pastime.
2. debunking has taken on a life of it's own.

Conclusion: if something out of this world is actually discovered we won't even be able to tell if it's true or not. We don't need scientific investigators. We need an army of shrinks.

So what are you leaning towards Bob? IS he a nut or is he for real?

Gus

I don't mean this to sound like a copout, Gus, but I honestly don't know what to think.
If I had only read Lazar's claims and then read the debunker material I would probably think he's lying. But when I hear him talk in that two hour interview, none of my bs detectors sound any alarms.

I've seen enough X-Files to know one thing. If the military had come into possession of a flying saucer and then someone ratted them out, they would attempt to discredit him.

Hmmm. I post and say I don't rule out the existence of flying saucers and not one person has challenged that. And here I thought most of these guys were born skeptics. What do you make of this, Gus?

Bob

Frank:

If that's a reference to my tongue in cheek review of projectors I've never seen, touche . But since I've never seen you in the digital projector forum once, I can't help but wonder if Bob Wood didn't put you up to that. Where do you hang out that you accumulated 3000+ posts?

Bob:

I think you've tired everyone out plus you go back and forth so much sometimes ("I believe Lazar, I don't know whether to believe Lazar") that you confuse the sh*t out of everyone . I don't rule out extraterrestrial life, I just doubt most of the conspiracy theories and unproven claims of UFO visits.

Bob, my belief is that the vast majority of people (including AVSforum members) believe in extraterrestrial life, but everyone fears ridicule. In the words of Jodie Foster (Ellie) "It'd be an awful waste of space"

Gus

I'm pretty sure we went through this topic at length earlier in this thread. My argument is that the numbers are unbelievably against us being the only example of life in the universe. Now, whether they come visit is far more arguable, but that they exist is almost a given.

I'm not sure there is much ridicule to fear Gus. Believing that extraterrestrial life is probably somewhere out there is hardly a radical idea. On the other hand, if you announce that you were an alien abductee, yes, you might face a little bit of ridicule.

In 1987 Ed Walters took his now infamous PHOTOS about 5 miles from where I live.
Following this for a period of two years there was a continual rash of UFO sightings all over this area. At one point it got around that people were gathering at the foot of the Pensacola Bay Bridge because sightings had become commonplace at that location. One evening I joined a group of about two dozen people at the bridge site. At about 8PM we all witnessed an extremely bright green light directly overhead that was moving very slowly across the sky. We watched it for about 30 minutes. It was not a planet or other heavenly body. It was not a satellite or other space vehicle. It was not an airplane. It was not a flare. I had never before seen anything like it and I have not since seen anything like it.

I have no clue what it was that I witnessed. I find this whole thing to be a total enigma. But a very fascinating enigma.

Bob

Perhaps a weather balloon?

The bright light was seen many times and over a lengthy period. The local newspaper investigated all the likely explanations and this included weather balloons. They found no evidence whatsoever which would attribute the sightings to weather balloons.

During this period the County Medical Examiner revealed that, while driving, he and his wife had a close-up sighting of what he described to be the object pictured in the photos I linked you to. In his position, he had nothing to gain whatsoever and everything to lose by coming forward to tell what he had seen.

Bob

How do we know that you're not an alien?

Oh, boy. A man goes off to eat some turkey with relatives and what happens? The floodgates of fancy open. OK. First of all, Frank, here's a review from Salon on the book you brought up:

http://www.salon.com/books/review/20.../zero_gravity/

"It's a story that strains credulity. But unless we're after cheap laughs, our hope when we pick up a book like this is that the author will, against the odds, build a careful, reasonable and convincing case. Cook isn't that author. "

I personally have many books I'd like to read before wasting ti-- uh, tackling this doozy.


Gus and Bob,

I have no clue who you are talking about, but the issue of getting doctorates from CalTech and MIT which are not proven. Serious alarm bells, guys.

1) Very few people in the U.S. get two doctorates. There's just no point, really. Getting a Candidacy and DSc used to be a big thing in Europe, but that's dying.

2) If he got a doctorate, there would be a thesis. That's a book, that would be forever on the shelves of these two fine institutions, plus on microfilm at the University of Michigan. They deleted these books? Please.

3) Surely a few people who were in school with him could attest to his being there? Maybe some papers with coauthors could be dredged up? His fellow students from places like this would be professors and leading scientists/engineers somewhere.

This is more than 'one strike against him'. If he's claiming these things with a straight face, he's 100% lying, which seriously cracks the pot of his credibility, if you get my drift.

Gus, the burden of proof is on HIM, not on anyone else. If he claims he has two doctorates, or worked at Los Alamos, it's up to him to back these claims up. If they were true, it would be cake.

Bob, why is 'debunking taking a life of it's own' a problem for understanding what is real and lies? I see debunking helping the situation by trouncing people who don't have the evidence on their side. It's a pretty fair playing ground too. Not like a courtroom where rules are distorted and misapplied and you have to live with the results. If someone debunks your claim, you can go off, gather more evidence, and try again if you like.

M

I can see that our memory erasure of your/our encounter was not fully successful. We will correct this in our next visit Mr. Wood.

Bob,

regarding the green flying thing you saw in 1987. There are (were) what, three Air Force bases in the panhandle? To your north is the aerospace industry capitol of the east in northern Alabama. Tens of billions of dollars a year go into secret aerospace programs. I know for a fact that boron based fuels were being considered at various points of the cold war by the USAF. Ultimately there were at least two problems with them - they were very corrosive to engine parts and they burned a characteristic green that was easy to track - not very good for a stealth aircraft that everyone wanted. Draw your own conclusions.

By the way, it's nearly obvious that the ramping up of test aircraft in New Mexico (forgot the range/base name), which was chosen for being remote and for having extremely clear weather, coincided exactly with the UFO sightings in the area. Which is more plausible, that they were seeing USAF flight tests or alien spacecraft?

M

You are of course correct earthling, er I mean Mr. Moore. I was obviously mistaken. The lights are Air Force Planes.

I tend to read books, not reviews however there are many positive reviews of this book by reputable reviewers.
I find the book to be a believable acount of his investigation into the many claims made by reputable firms back in 1956.
Apparently there was a Nazi war criminal named Hans Kammler who was running a top secret program until he conveniently disapeared just before the end of the war.


Frank

Moore,

I may have been mistaken about the 2 doctorates. He claimes to have attended both and I know he lays claim to at least one doctorate, but mybe not 2 ( this is all from memory of info I came across a few years ago).

I agree about these issues casting severe doubt on his credibility. The thing is, 100% of his credibility is not gone, and if he is bebunked 95%, there is still a 5% chance that he is telling the truth.

Gus

I can't find anything that would indicate that Lazar claimed to have a PHD,
However, he did claim to have attended Cal Tech and claimed he received a Master's degree from MIT that was obtained in "about 1982".

Stanton Friedman, a noted ufologist and a bonafide physicist (yes, they can be both) looked into these claims. He checked with the Cal Tech Registrar's office and could find no record of Lazar's attendance there. He checked with the MIT Registrar's office and the Alumni office and could find no evidence of Lazar's attendance there either. And he was not on the 1982 commencement list.

Bob

Bob,

I may have been incorrect about Lazar's educational claims. Maybe he just claimed to have attended, but not received a doctorate. The doctorate may have been from one of the debunkers.

But he DID produce a W-2 from the place where he claims to have witnessed the fabled spacecraft.
And back before any of the UFO stuff, he appeared in a newspaper article when he was presented as "a physicist from Los Alamos" who had built a jet-powered honda. So the idea of him presenting himself as a physicist goes waaaay back.
Gus