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Logitech Squeezebox Touch Owners Thread - Page 24

post #691 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Wow; is the SBT a mess these days, or is it just me? I've been noticing some "skipping"...figured it was my file-server; now tonight, I see my 96kHz files are only tripping 48kHz on my DAC.

WTF? Need an update?

CD

Actually I think synching to my Duet for the first time is causing the output issue. Wonder if it could be causing the "skipping" as well (the Duet is turned OFF)?

CD
post #692 of 1055
Thread Starter 
Enjoying this App.

Good selection of music. The search functions could be better. Although, it just may be the user.
post #693 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Actually I think synching to my Duet for the first time is causing the output issue. Wonder if it could be causing the "skipping" as well (the Duet is turned OFF)?

CD

I see that this post is fairly old, but thought I'd respond just in case. The Duet does not handle 96kHz natively (as you're probably aware), but can downconvert 96kHz material to 48kHz, which is probably what you're seeing.

The problem with my Duet is that the NAS I'm running the server on does not have the processing power to do the downconvert properly, so it constantly rebuffers 96kHz material, possibly a cause of the 'skipping' you were noticing.

I previously had the Transporter and a Duet on the same network (with the devices synched), so I had to turn the Duet off in order to properly play 96kHz material via the Transporter. I intend to get a Touch soon, and will again have the same issue.
post #694 of 1055
The Touch supports up to 96K does it not?
post #695 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

The Touch supports up to 96K does it not?

Yes it does.
post #696 of 1055
I've been meaning to ask...

I have 2 Touches, each in a different room. I've noticed that when both are turned on, if I select an album in one room, the Touch in the other room also starts playing the album. Is there a way to switch one of them to a "different channel" or something to that effect so I can use them independently?
post #697 of 1055
Settings->Synchronization
post #698 of 1055
Thanks!
post #699 of 1055
Thinking about jumping on a Touch for my powered Audioengines. Since this product has been out for quite some time, I wanted to ask if there has been any rumor and/or solid info from any industry trade shows about any pending upgrades in this area from Logitech.

Nothing worse than buying something toward its' end of life, only to be burned by a new product announcement 2 weeks later. (as I recently was w/ Asus' Transformer Prime tablet).

Any help greatly appreciated.
post #700 of 1055
Hey guys,

I'm thinking about getting either a logitech squeezebox touch or an Apple TV (whenever the new one comes out). I have an iPod touch and I do have a decent itunes library, but that's about it (I don't have FLAC files or anything of the like, though I'd be open to looking at that down the road). Just ordered a non-networking Denon 1712 (because I wanted to take most of the extra money saved and put it towards a streaming device--primarily for audio).

Are there any obvious audio advantages for using the Squeezebox over the Apple TV (or whatever the new Apple TV device would be)? I know one advantage of the Squeezebox would be that I don't have to have my plasma turned on in order to navigate (or is that a non-issue for the Apple TV because of the Itouch's navigation possibilities for the Apple TV?). Oh, and I'm really looking forward to using MOG on either one--not sure if there's any audio advantage with the Squeezebox there, either.

Thanks!
post #701 of 1055
I don't know about the Apple, but one thing I like about the SB Touch is the control options. You can use the built-in touchscreen, the remote control, or use iPod Touch/iPad apps.

Sound-wise, I can only assume it would be identical with digital connections. The SB Touch's analog out is mediocre at best. I much prefer the sound using my outboard DAC.
post #702 of 1055
Hey Palm,

When you say use ipod touch/ipad apps, what do you mean? Can you stream wirelessly from the ipod/ipad to the squeezebox? Besides video with Apple TV, wouldn't this essentially be the same thing as AirTV?
post #703 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

Hey Palm,

When you say use ipod touch/ipad apps, what do you mean? Can you stream wirelessly from the ipod/ipad to the squeezebox? Besides video with Apple TV, wouldn't this essentially be the same thing as AirTV?

Sorry, I don't know anything about Apple TV. No, you cannot stream wirelessly from the iPod to the SB Touch.

The iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch apps basically turn your iDevice into a handheld touchscreen controller for the SB Touch that mimicks the built-in touch screen. It controls your SB Touch via your home WiFi network.
post #704 of 1055
You can not use your iTouch as a source with the Squeezebox, that's something only AirPlay (Apple) does.

MOG will work on the Squeezebox, it will be more difficult on AppleTV because it's not supported by iTunes, you could use your iTouch as a MOG player but that will put a heavy strain on it's battery and depend a lot on the available WiFi reception.

Besides that: Audio quality depends on what you have. AirPlay/Apple TV is limited to 44.1kHz/16Bit audio, the Squeezebox supports up to 96/24 natively, but that only helps if you have the appropriate music, which you obviously don't.
If you already describe analog output of the SB as "mediocre" you can only describe that of AppleTV as "crap". AppleTV is a heavy EMV emitter and lot of that goes into the Audio Out.
Less demanding people are usually pretty happy especially with the SB.

Remote control wise: Both work with your iTouch as a remote, you won't need your PlasmaTV on as long as we are talking audio only.

This is all for the current AppleTV 2, I don't think there will be anew one this year but who knows.
post #705 of 1055
Hey Coolio,

Are you saying that the Apple TV could not use MOG unless I'm streaming from my itouch (or ipad, etc.) so that it wouldn't work if I didn't have one of those devices? From the MOG site, it seemed to indicate that it could.

Second, given the Apple TV's limitations in comparison to MOG's capability of streaming 320 kbps, would that limit MOG's capability? In other words, I don't know how 44.1kHz/16Bit audio or 96/24 bit translates to “320 kilobits per second" that MOG advertises. (In all honesty, I'm primarily getting the device for MOG use).
post #706 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

Are you saying that the Apple TV could not use MOG unless I'm streaming from my itouch (or ipad, etc.) so that it wouldn't work if I didn't have one of those devices? From the MOG site, it seemed to indicate that it could.

Sorry, you are right, it seems to work if you install a version of their App available for download on their site (if you know where it is; it's really hard to find otherwise). I used the version on the Mac App Store and that doesn't support it.
I don't know about Windows. Edit: They say "Windows coming soon" so no Windows support, yet.

So yes, you can also use it if you run the latest MOG App on your Mac.
Quote:


Second, given the Apple TV's limitations in comparison to MOG's capability of streaming 320 kbps, would that limit MOG's capability? In other words, I don't know how 44.1kHz/16Bit audio or 96/24 bit translates to “320 kilobits per second" that MOG advertises. (In all honesty, I'm primarily getting the device for MOG use).

No, no limitation. 44.1kHz/16 Bit is the standard CD format. 320kbps is MP3, so a compressed CD format, it's still less than AirPlay's capabilities.
post #707 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

Hey Coolio,

Are you saying that the Apple TV could not use MOG unless I'm streaming from my itouch (or ipad, etc.) so that it wouldn't work if I didn't have one of those devices? From the MOG site, it seemed to indicate that it could.

Second, given the Apple TV's limitations in comparison to MOG's capability of streaming 320 kbps, would that limit MOG's capability? In other words, I don't know how 44.1kHz/16Bit audio or 96/24 bit translates to 320 kilobits per second" that MOG advertises. (In all honesty, I'm primarily getting the device for MOG use).

I use my SB Touch for MOG all the time. The SB Touch is basically a touchscreen MOG controller. I love it.
post #708 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolio107 View Post

No, no limitation. 44.1kHz/16 Bit is the standard CD format. 320kbps is MP3, so a compressed CD format, it's still less than AirPlay's capabilities.

I'm just now getting my home theater setup, so in the past, sure, I'd make sure the sound on my CD's were burned in at the highest bit rate, on itunes, but I was clueless when it came to higher sample-rate music, and I'm naive when it comes to finding music that would be at the higher rates. I don't even know if my budget system (Denon 1712, Pioneer speakers) would have the ability, so-to-speak, to show much of a difference between the file types at or around CDs vs. something like FLAC files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

I use my SB Touch for MOG all the time. The SB Touch is basically a touchscreen MOG controller. I love it.

I'm jealous!  SB looks so cool, but I'm not for sure if it is worth the extra money (about twice the price), if I can use something like the Itouch/Iphone to control MOG via Apple TV on my system, and there's no sound quality difference. Maybe I'm missing something as far as what it can do. Do you use multiple services, or are you just using it primarily for MOG?
post #709 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

I'm just now getting my home theater setup, so in the past, sure, I'd make sure the sound on my CD's were burned in at the highest bit rate, on itunes, but I was clueless when it came to higher sample-rate music, and I'm naive when it comes to finding music that would be at the higher rates. I don't even know if my budget system (Denon 1712, Pioneer speakers) would have the ability, so-to-speak, to show much of a difference between the file types at or around CDs vs. something like FLAC files.



I’m jealous!  SB looks so cool, but I’m not for sure if it is worth the extra money (about twice the price), if I can use something like the Itouch/Iphone to control MOG via Apple TV on my system, and there’s no sound quality difference. Maybe I’m missing something as far as what it can do. Do you use multiple services, or are you just using it primarily for MOG?

MOG is the only service I use. I love that I can search for any album and BAM! there it is - usually. I have run into a few surprising gaps (King Crimson being a huge omission in my opinion).

Mostly, I listen to my CD collection (ripped to FLAC).

BTW, most people (myself included) can't tell the difference between 24/96, 16/44 FLAC, and 320 kbps mp3 in a blind test (assuming same track/mix). If they say they can, they are lying (either to you or to themselves). Below 320 kbps, I can start to hear differences between the compressed and the lossless original if I listen VERY closely, but it's not a sure thing until the file goes below 128 kbps.

But memory is cheap, so there's no reason to ever rip below 320 kbps. I chose FLAC just to satisfy my OCD and keep them "lossless."
post #710 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

I'm jealous!  SB looks so cool, but I'm not for sure if it is worth the extra money (about twice the price), if I can use something like the Itouch/Iphone to control MOG via Apple TV on my system, and there's no sound quality difference. Maybe I'm missing something as far as what it can do. Do you use multiple services, or are you just using it primarily for MOG?

Well, one advantage is that if you are only using MOG then your Mac would not have to run all the time just to stream the Audio to your AppleTV. Logitech has an own internet service (MySqueezebox.com) that interfaces to MOG (and other services like Spotify, internet radio and so on) so that you can run a Squeezebox on it's own if you don't need to access music stored on your computer.

You can't do that with AppleTV so far, at least not with MOG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

MOG is the only service I use. I love that I can search for any album and BAM! there it is - usually. I have run into a few surprising gaps (King Crimson being a huge omission in my opinion).

Oh, there are a lot. With all of these services. I still find that only around 50% of my music library is available through MOG, Spotify, iTunes et al. And we are not only talking about obscure stuff here. Try finding, say, the Beatles on MOG or Adele on Spotify...
Quote:


BTW, most people (myself included) can't tell the difference between 24/96, 16/44 FLAC, and 320 kbps mp3 in a blind test (assuming same track/mix).

This depends a _lot_ on the actual track. MP3 always suppresses certain characteristics of the sound and I do have some albums (mainly live stuff) where I'm very sure that you will immediately hear the difference between the 320kbps mp3 and the lossless version. 24 bits and higher sample rates mainly help when you want to do additional processing like room correction, replay gain, equalization in the digital domain since you immediately lose resolution due to rounding errors, it's really rare to hear any difference between 48kHz sample rate. The big advantage of the 48kHz sample rate is that mastering these days usually happens at 192 kHz and so you've got an even divider (4) when downsampling reducing rounding errors again, compared to the 44.1kHz CD format.

But your last point is important: the mix. My experience here has been mixed at best with online sources. MOG seems to be on the better side of things but I am really, really disappointed with Spotify here. A lot of what they have is radio edits with heavy dynamics compression that just sounds so much worse than original recordings it's not really worth streaming the stuff with more than 128kbps (which is for what these mixes usually are done). Since I suspect it's the record labels driving this I'm afraid no service will ever be immune to it.
Quote:


If they say they can, they are lying (either to you or to themselves). Below 320 kbps, I can start to hear differences between the compressed and the lossless original if I listen VERY closely, but it's not a sure thing until the file goes below 128 kbps.

Well, as I said: it depends a LOT on the material. Absolutely no problem with today's chart mixes (since these are made for 128kbps anyway) but especially live material sometimes can be actually _very_ easy to distinguish.

That said: I never rip any studio albums to FLAC since all the recent ones (made over the last 5-10 years) are mixed for lossy audio formats anyway so you can be sure to hear no difference here, as long as you can stick to the original format.
Converting between different lossy formats (e.g. from mp3 to AAC) can also cause artifacts that are quite noticeable.
post #711 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolio107 View Post

Well, one advantage is that if you are only using MOG then your Mac would not have to run all the time just to stream the Audio to your AppleTV. Logitech has an own internet service (MySqueezebox.com) that interfaces to MOG (and other services like Spotify, internet radio and so on) so that you can run a Squeezebox on it's own if you don't need to access music stored on your computer.

You can't do that with AppleTV so far, at least not with MOG.

Ok, to make sure I'm understanding you right, you're saying that the only way MOG would work on AppleTV is if my computer (which is actually a Windows 7 computer running Itunes) would need to be on all of the time in order to stream MOG? My computer already is on all of the time, anyway, but I am wanting to make sure that that's what you mean. Or, are you saying that I would have to have a MAC in order to even use MOG through Apple TV? thanks so much for your time, guys, on all of this.
post #712 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolio107 View Post

This depends a _lot_ on the actual track. MP3 always suppresses certain characteristics of the sound and I do have some albums (mainly live stuff) where I'm very sure that you will immediately hear the difference between the 320kbps mp3 and the lossless version.

Absolutely no problem with today's chart mixes (since these are made for 128kbps anyway) but especially live material sometimes can be actually _very_ easy to distinguish.

I've never tried a comparison with live music, but your comments make sense. Classical (orchestral) music would also fit in this group I suppose. Live ambience plus tremendous dynamic range.

I'll have to check it out next time I have some listening time.
post #713 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post

Ok, to make sure I'm understanding you right, you're saying that the only way MOG would work on AppleTV is if my computer (which is actually a Windows 7 computer running Itunes) would need to be on all of the time in order to stream MOG?

Yes. Although - if I read MOGs website correctly that doesn't work with Windows, yet.
The way you can stream MOG to the AppleTV is from the latest version of the MOG App, currently available for Mac and iOS only. It's that App which streams to the AppleTV, AppleTV dooesn't work directly with MOG, that's the difference to the Squeezebox.

They say "Windows coming soon", whatever that means, though.

http://support.mog.com/kb/mog-deskto...-are-supported
http://support.mog.com/kb/mog-desktop-app
post #714 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolio107 View Post

Yes. Although - if I read MOGs website correctly that doesn't work with Windows, yet.
The way you can stream MOG to the AppleTV is from the latest version of the MOG App, currently available for Mac and iOS only. It's that App which streams to the AppleTV, AppleTV dooesn't work directly with MOG, that's the difference to the Squeezebox.

Yeah I saw that about Windows, and who knows what that means. Even if it turned out that it could work with something like Media Center (which is what I use, via Xbox, for OTA reception and DVR functionality), I'd still have to keep the plasma on. So, this pretty much seals the deal for the Logitech, I suppose. I just liked the idea of paying about half the price to do what I have in mind (assuming the new Apple TV is around the same price as Apple TV 2). I don't like the idea of having to stream MOG via Apple TV from an itouch/iphone. Though in theory i'm sure it would work, I'd much rather have the liberty to simply turn on the device WITHOUT one of the i-devices.
post #715 of 1055
I've been anxious to fully switch over to MOG from Rhapsody (even though I think Rhapsody is still king, when it comes to amount of content)...but I have something really weird happening with my SBT.

Is it just me, or when I try to go to the MOG app, my SBT says "switching to mysqueezebox.com"...and asks for a software update. I run it, and all is fine...except when I try to go back to my own music library, SBT wants to go back to my server...and wants to run another update. Then...if I try to go back to MOG, it starts all over again.

Any thoughts?

CD
post #716 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I've been anxious to fully switch over to MOG from Rhapsody (even though I think Rhapsody is still king, when it comes to amount of content)...but I have something really weird happening with my SBT.

Is it just me, or when I try to go to the MOG app, my SBT says "switching to mysqueezebox.com"...and asks for a software update. I run it, and all is fine...except when I try to go back to my own music library, SBT wants to go back to my server...and wants to run another update. Then...if I try to go back to MOG, it starts all over again.

Any thoughts?

CD

Weird, mine doesn't do that.

Did you get your tablet working with your SBT?
post #717 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Weird, mine doesn't do that.

Did you get your tablet working with your SBT?

Yes, I run SqueezeCommander on my Fire. Guess a call to Logitech is in order.

CD
post #718 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Weird, mine doesn't do that.

Did you get your tablet working with your SBT?

Is the Logitech Controller ready for the Fire yet?

CD
post #719 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Weird, mine doesn't do that.

Did you get your tablet working with your SBT?

I think updating the SqueezeServer (or whatever the ef they call it now...lol) did the trick. I was on 7.6.1; looks like 7.7.1 not only keeps me from having to update every time I switch...but they got MOG on the "local" side as well?

EDIT- Yup; works like a charm now! Sweet; now I can really embrace MOG.

CD
post #720 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post


I think updating the SqueezeServer (or whatever the ef they call it now...lol) did the trick. I was on 7.6.1; looks like 7.7.1 not only keeps me from having to update every time I switch...but they got MOG on the "local" side as well?

EDIT- Yup; works like a charm now! Sweet; now I can really embrace MOG.

CD

Glad it worked. I tried 771 for no real reason and had to go back to 761 because it is so much more stable. 771 would bomb out on scanning my library every time.
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