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Logitech Squeezebox Touch Owners Thread - Page 33

post #961 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drtrey View Post

I run my modified SBT into an Emotiva XDA-2 dac and it was an obvious and pleasant upgrade. It should be for $400! I used to run it to my Denon receiver, but that was really similar enough to the SBT dac that I stopped doing it that way. But the XDA-2 is wonderful with the SBT, and it is fun when 192 lights up!

Trey

Thanks Trey for sharing your experiences. Seems like using the DAC in your AVR was more of a step sideways then upwards. The Emotiva XDA-2 DAC looks like a nice upgrade for your Touch. How is your Touch modified? My stock Touch will play 192 but downsamples to 24/96 but I know there are some third party Apps that make this possible.
post #962 of 1055
Sounds like a really nice system you have. I don't share your enthusiasm for cable but I respect those who do. biggrin.gif

Here are some more thoughts based on what you've said. Personally, I don't think you should get the BDP-105. If I were you I would keep your Denon and add an inexpensive BluRay player. Without multi-channel in your system, I just don't think the Oppo is worth it. The Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree discs are available on DVD and those are 24 bit audio. You can watch the concert on TV with your DVD player and/or rip the 24/48 audio to FLAC and listen to it with your Squeezebox. I have several of these DVDs and enjoy them this way myself.

In 2009 I finally went to BluRay and decided to upgrade my entire home theater. But I didn't want to sacrifice 2-channel pleasure so I decided to split my system in two. I Got an Oppo BDP-83 and Pioneer Elite AVR for the core of a multi-channel home theater and I took my vintage Carver Receiver out of storage and built a dedicated 2-channel system with a Squeezebox Touch in another room. I like the Squeezebox so much I bought a second one for my home theater.

The Pioneer Elite with room correction and Burr Brown based DACs really does well with music and movies, while in the other room I can enjoy vinyl, cassettes (?!?!), silver discs, and music files (and MOG) using the Squeezebox.

With regards to my 2-channel listening (which is what you're interested in), what I have found over the past few years enjoying my systems is that after I ripped all my discs to FLAC, I rarely use my DVD/universal player anymore. It's a very high quality Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi. All my CDs and DVD-A discs (including my concert videos!) are streamed through my Squeezebox now, as well as all of my hybrid SACDs (albeit the 16/44 CD layer). Honestly, I cant tell the difference between the SACD layer and the CD layer of my hybrid discs, so the only time I EVER spin an audio disc these days is when I want to listen to an album I couldnt rip to FLAC - in other words, a non-hybrid SACD. That is a very small percentage of my collection and I often just find it on MOG and don't bother with the disc.

Anyways, I didn't mean to go off on a tangent, I just hope some of my experiences give you some ideas that maybe you haven't considered. Certainly I'm not alone in drifting away from audio discs as I get more and more spoiled by streaming. MOG is a fantastic service and their 320 kbps streams are superb - Indistinguishable from CD's to my ears.
Edited by palmfish - 7/5/13 at 2:19pm
post #963 of 1055
Palmfish, sounds like your 2 system approach has worked well at accomplishing different things for each system as well as some similar things you wanted. Appreciate your input and realize you are not dissing the OPPO as much as you are wanting me to get the most bang for my buck. The Denon DVD-2930ci retailed for $849 and I bought it brand new warrantied from Vann's on a Black Friday closeout for $170 so I am always looking for a deal! Another option would be to pick up a used OPPO BDP-83 to replace the Denon and would have BluRay with good analog outs for my 2 channel preamp situation. Could pick up an OPPO BDP-83 for around $300 and sell the Denon for around $265 so my upgrade would run about $35 sans some shipping costs involved.
I am not playing many discs anymore as well. When I first got the Touch I thought I would listen to it 40% of the time and the Denon 60% but that has morphed into 85% for the Touch now.
I have not ripped any DVD's to the Touch as of yet, how is this accomplished? Thanks again!
post #964 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

Another option would be to pick up a used OPPO BDP-83 to replace the Denon and would have BluRay with good analog outs for my 2 channel preamp situation. Could pick up an OPPO BDP-83 for around $300 and sell the Denon for around $265 so my upgrade would run about $35 sans some shipping costs involved.
I am not playing many discs anymore as well. When I first got the Touch I thought I would listen to it 40% of the time and the Denon 60% but that has morphed into 85% for the Touch now.
I have not ripped any DVD's to the Touch as of yet, how is this accomplished? Thanks again!

That is a good option. I love my BDP-83.

Here's how you rip DVD-Audio to FLAC...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145251

IIRC, this is a free 30 day trial. I ripped all my concert DVD's and DVD-A's in one day and never used it again. There is also commercial software that you can buy that is more intuitive to use, but the end result is the same - high bit rate FLAC on your computer.
post #965 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

Looking at the pictures of your system you have a lot of great Toothpicks! Very nice looking system, bet it sounds good as well! Have you tried any DAC's (like in your Receiver) with your Squeezebox Touch?

Thank you! Only the Touch and AVR DACs, no difference but it wasn't a controlled comparison. I try to keep analog conversion in my AVR at all times, the only exception is my computer sound card.

Palmfish and I seem to agree on a lot of points smile.gif I do still use the 2930 for hi-res disks in my theater, part nostalgia and part technology - it's a great player and Denonlink transport is hard to beat. That said, all of my music except SACD are also ripped to FLAC and much of my 2 channel listening these days is sourced from my computer to stereo setup rather than my HT. I use foobar2000 primarily with the stereo setup, Squeezebox when I want to sync playback over the entire house (I have both classic and Touch). Squeezebox also delivers my archived content to my home theater system.
post #966 of 1055
I'm sure most of us have read the Stereophile review of the Touch by now. If anyone wants more validation about the incredible quality and versatility the Touch offers, here is some more recent reading:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/02/measurements-logitech-squeezebox-touch.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/02/measurements-logitech-touch-as-transport.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013_06_01_archive.html

BTW, "archimago's" entire blog is terrific. Definitely worth reading.
post #967 of 1055
Palmfish thanks for sharing these Archimago threads. Very good reading with some graphs to back it up as well. The Touch is incredible for it's price and I enjoy it more than I thought I would. Many other streamers are not "gapless" inserting a split-second of silence between tracks making a lot of classical music and rock like Pink Floyd and side 2 of Abbey Road by the Beatles (which segway tracks together) a struggle to listen to stripping them of their natural flow IMO. I use my Touch wireless and have had virtually no problems. Once and a while the music from my ripped CD's (FLAC & WAV) stored on my external HD running through my PC would stop for a couple of seconds then resume where it left off. I assumed this to be a connection or wireless problem. On further investigation noticing it always did this every 25 minutes or so I realized my PC was going to "sleep mode" and was disconnecting the HD then reconnecting it. Taking my PC out of "sleep mode" and setting it to "always on" completely solved this problem.
Seems like we are all playing a lot less actual Discs then we thought we would. Stay Streaming my friends!
post #968 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

Palmfish thanks for sharing these Archimago threads. Very good reading with some graphs to back it up as well. The Touch is incredible for it's price and I enjoy it more than I thought I would. Many other streamers are not "gapless" inserting a split-second of silence between tracks making a lot of classical music and rock like Pink Floyd and side 2 of Abbey Road by the Beatles (which segway tracks together) a struggle to listen to stripping them of their natural flow IMO. I use my Touch wireless and have had virtually no problems. Once and a while the music from my ripped CD's (FLAC & WAV) stored on my external HD running through my PC would stop for a couple of seconds then resume where it left off. I assumed this to be a connection or wireless problem. On further investigation noticing it always did this every 25 minutes or so I realized my PC was going to "sleep mode" and was disconnecting the HD then reconnecting it. Taking my PC out of "sleep mode" and setting it to "always on" completely solved this problem.
Seems like we are all playing a lot less actual Discs then we thought we would. Stay Streaming my friends!

+1

smile.gif
post #969 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

The Touch is incredible for it's price and I enjoy it more than I thought I would...I use my Touch wireless and have had virtually no problems. Once and a while the music from my ripped CD's (FLAC & WAV) stored on my external HD running through my PC would stop for a couple of seconds then resume where it left off. I assumed this to be a connection or wireless problem. On further investigation noticing it always did this every 25 minutes or so I realized my PC was going to "sleep mode" and was disconnecting the HD then reconnecting it. Taking my PC out of "sleep mode" and setting it to "always on" completely solved this problem.
Seems like we are all playing a lot less actual Discs then we thought we would. Stay Streaming my friends!


Same here. My Touch changed the way I listen to and enjoy music forever. I stream at least 90% of the time. I use wi-fi too and my Touch does buffer sometimes, usually when I'm streaming 24 bit FLAC and someone turns on the microwave oven (which is located between my router and both of my Touches). eek.gif
post #970 of 1055
Tuneman, I installed the third party app that lets you stream 192 direct from the SBT. I was worried about doing so until I heard that it worked without a hiccup from lots of my online audiophile friends. I have run it for at least 6 months trouble free.

Trey
post #971 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drtrey View Post

Tuneman, I installed the third party app that lets you stream 192 direct from the SBT. I was worried about doing so until I heard that it worked without a hiccup from lots of my online audiophile friends. I have run it for at least 6 months trouble free.

Trey

Thanks Trey for the update. Was it the Enhanced Digital Out (EDO) App? Are you running it USB? Glad you are enjoying it!
post #972 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

I'm sure most of us have read the Stereophile review of the Touch by now. If anyone wants more validation about the incredible quality and versatility the Touch offers, here is some more recent reading:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/02/measurements-logitech-squeezebox-touch.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/02/measurements-logitech-touch-as-transport.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013_06_01_archive.html

BTW, "archimago's" entire blog is terrific. Definitely worth reading.

These graphs are very interesting! One shows no measured difference when disabling the analog outs when running digital out. Many audiophiles claim an improvement when disabling the analog outs. Other differences were found on types of digital cables used.
Thanks for the links Palmfish, much appreciated!
post #973 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

These graphs are very interesting! One shows no measured difference when disabling the analog outs when running digital out. Many audiophiles claim an improvement when disabling the analog outs. Other differences were found on types of digital cables used.
Thanks for the links Palmfish, much appreciated!

Yes, I have read those claims and the reasoning behind them too. I personally believe that bits are bits. Either they are there or they aren't. Improving sound quality by using an app or expensive digital cable is pure snake oil - right up there with green markers and brass weights.
post #974 of 1055
Yes, it is the EDO app, but I am running from the rca out. And that is the way we listen to most of our music. If I could, I would buy another SBT for the upstairs, but alas, you know I cannot.

Trey
post #975 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Yes, I have read those claims and the reasoning behind them too. I personally believe that bits are bits. Either they are there or they aren't. Improving sound quality by using an app or expensive digital cable is pure snake oil - right up there with green markers and brass weights.

Palmfish---

I was a mainframe computer programmer way back in the early 80s, and I'm with you: bits are bits and exotic cables woven from Unicorn hair, etc., make no difference. For that matter, something else I am convinced of is that digital errors do not matter if the error-correction succeeds in supplying the correct missing bit. Of course, that depends on how good the algorithm is.

Having said that, have you seen the experiments showing that when the same cheap wine was put in an expensive bottle alongside its own, and served side-by-side, different pleasure centers in the brain lighted for the wine in the expensive bottle -- that is, it was being enjoyed more? This suggests to me that people who believe in green markers and such may actually be hearing something different than we do, as a result of the way their brains are processing the info.

[edited typo]
Edited by Goes to 11 - 7/10/13 at 3:21pm
post #976 of 1055
Yes, I have read about that test (and many others).

The wonders of expectation bias and seeking the holy grail smile.gif

If you are interested in these kinds of studies, here's a couple of others that are fun to read...

http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/subjective-vs-objective-debate.html

NwAvGuy's blog (linked above) is a terric read with lots of links and objective/subjective discussion.
post #977 of 1055
Palmfish, thank you much for these links. I just quickly read the matrixhifi link. Every time I have ever read a double-blind listening test the golden ears listeners blamed the results on the switching gear degrading the signal. I like that this was eliminated, although I'm sure they have some other nit to pick.

I'm looking forward to reading the NwAvGuy blog.
post #978 of 1055
Yeah, the placebo effect is real and measureable! Our expectations, fueled by sensory cues and beliefs and dreams have an enormous impact on our experience. Otherwise, there would be no Wonderbra.

Trey
post #979 of 1055
Well, I have been trying to play music with my Squeezebox Radio, and apparently the squeezebox server is down or something. I am frankly getting tired of my squeezebox, and at the moment I am thinking of switching to Sonos. In the past week alone I've had to reset my squeezebox radio 12 times...2 of them today. I tried going to mysqueezebox.com, and it is unresponsive.

Anyone else having any issues? I can't even access my music located in my PC Win7 or my UnRaid server. I really liked the Squeezebox when it is working, but lately its reliability has gone down!
post #980 of 1055
I don't have a SB Radio but do have five other SB devices, I just logged in to mysqueezebox.com and all looks well to me. If you are running LMS on your Win7 box check to make sure LMS is running, sometimes MS updates will turn it off. The software hasn't changed in months so if it used to work no reason for it to stop unless something funky is going on with your network.
post #981 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Well, I have been trying to play music with my Squeezebox Radio, and apparently the squeezebox server is down or something. I am frankly getting tired of my squeezebox, and at the moment I am thinking of switching to Sonos. In the past week alone I've had to reset my squeezebox radio 12 times...2 of them today. I tried going to mysqueezebox.com, and it is unresponsive.

Anyone else having any issues? I can't even access my music located in my PC Win7 or my UnRaid server. I really liked the Squeezebox when it is working, but lately its reliability has gone down!
My server and all 7 Touches/Radios are working perfectly. This system has been nothing but a dream for me in my household. Sorry youre having issues, but if you decide to ditch them shoot me a PM and I might buy your stuff off you.
post #982 of 1055
MySqueezeBox.com was down for part of today. All up and running again. Something is wacky with your Win7 LMS server and/or your network. I've not needed to reset a SqueezeBox player (including a Radio) for a very long time, and rare when it does need any resets. My SB Boom streams 24/7 from MySB.com and needs me to press FFWD maybe once a week to start streaming again (not even a power cycle or reboot, just hitting FFWD to get the station going again)..

Sure your LMS is running under an Administrator account? Any other programs running (particularly media server type programs) on that same PC that may be using the same LMS ports?
post #983 of 1055
Well out of nowhere, it started working again. I still have two years extended warranty on it from BB, which pretty much would refund me whatever I paid for it.

I'll give it a few more weeks and see if it happens again.
post #984 of 1055
New Logitech Media server update available from Logitech. Server 7.7.3 now available to replace 7.7.2 version. Installed it and have noticed no problems and no improvements. Seems about the same. Anyone out there try it? Any positives or negatives noticed?
Since the Squeezebox Touch has been discontinued I was surprised to see a new update. Hopefully this means they will continue to support Squeezebox products for some time.
cool.gif
post #985 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

New Logitech Media server update available from Logitech. Server 7.7.3 now available to replace 7.7.2 version. Installed it and have noticed no problems and no improvements. Seems about the same. Anyone out there try it? Any positives or negatives noticed?
Since the Squeezebox Touch has been discontinued I was surprised to see a new update. Hopefully this means they will continue to support Squeezebox products for some time.
cool.gif

I just noticed a message on my computer that an update is available. I'm not having any issues so I'm not sure I will update.
post #986 of 1055
I installed it yesterday and a new "Radio" icon appeared.

I haven't explored it yet, but everything else is working just fine...
post #987 of 1055
7.7.3 is mostly bug fixes, nothing really hardware/player related via firmware
http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/Logitech/slimserver/blob/public/7.7/Changelog7.html
post #988 of 1055
Hmmm, that IS surprising to see. I might give it a few weeks before I try it. I have never had a single issue withe 7.7.2 so Im not really all that interested in taking the risk of an update when there is nothing wrong and no now features...
post #989 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune_man View Post

New Logitech Media server update available from Logitech. Server 7.7.3 now available to replace 7.7.2 version. Installed it and have noticed no problems and no improvements. Seems about the same. Anyone out there try it? Any positives or negatives noticed?
Since the Squeezebox Touch has been discontinued I was surprised to see a new update. Hopefully this means they will continue to support Squeezebox products for some time.
cool.gif

According to the folks at Logitech, version 7.7.x will be the last version of LMS. Version 7.8 falls into the hands of the community, and is currently available. 7.8 is available with nightly builds and I've been running it for months with no issues. The goal of 7.8 is to reduce or eliminate the need for mysqueezebox.com. Logitech has pledged to continue support for mysqueezebox.com, but if they were ever to shut it down you would lose access to radio stations, and podcasts for example.
post #990 of 1055
Time to sell my Squeezbox Radio rolleyes.gif
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