2EQ vs MultEQ - Your observations?

IMHO, the lack of sub EQ is critical. If you have a sub with its own roomEQ, you might get away with 2EQ. It is the bass end where Audyssey shines.

Dunno. It is a decision made by the AVR manufacturer. Since each level of Audyssey, from 2EQ to MultEQ to MultEQXT, requires more and more DSP capability, it is only to be expected that the cheaper units will not have the capacity for more advanced processing. Also note that bass/sub processing is the most complex part of the work.

why is bass/sub processing the most complex?

It requires more filtering per frequency band.

The Denon 590/1610 have MultEQ. They aren't HDMI 1.4 compliant but that may not be such a big deal for a few years to come.

If you don't care about HDMI 1.4 then why not get an Onkyo 807 or HT-RC180? They can be had for about $650 on weekends at Newegg. The 180 can be had for $599 refurbished. They both have MultiEQ and are much better AVRs than the Denon 1910.

Get the onkyo 608, 2EQ does work well. Multeq just maybe a over hyped dud.

Audyssey (MultEQ vice 2EQ) which also includes sub filters which 2EQ does not have."" That maybe a big plus as it better not to have MultEQ if it doesn't work right with some subs like if the sub faces down and not not into the room. 2EQ is a sure bet to work with NO ill side effects. MultEQ can be alot better and it can also make your sub sound alot worse. Audyssey thread is a mile long on this. There are work arounds, but there not for the newbie.

lol, I feel like Im having to post after you too much

But once again, you are way off on your opinoin.

2EQ does not work well at all compared to MultEQ XT. You simply have no experience on this topic from that opinion.

You are killing me, there is ZERO DIFFERENCE in terms of in room response from a sub that fires down or forward!! Ask any sub builder, There are a few on this site.

No, you are wrong, for one the phasing is not the same, and the "gravity effect" if you really want to get picky.

I want to get picky - what is the 'gravity effect'?

And while you are at it perhaps you could explain how phasing is affected by a down firing sub. I'm curious.

Wrong, go post that opinion on the subwoofer forum and you will learn something AGAIN.

There is no gravity effect on the sound waves generated from a woofer pointed up, down,sideways or whatever. Phasing is no different, do you understand how big these soundwaves are? What do you think the length of a 40Hz soundwave is?


btw, I have built 3 ported subs, 2 sealed subs, 1 PR sub and an IB array. Im currently researching building a tapped horn sub. Im not an expert like other members on AVS (Mark Seaton, Ricci, Bossobass, etc) but I have enough experience to know that you have simply no idea.


The only thing that can maybe effect a downfiring subwoofer is the long term sag effects of the woofer itself.

All your posts in many threads lead me to ask this...are you 18 years old?

Gravity has affect on the mass of the speaker cone movement up/down.
90 degrees out of phase with other front facing drivers @ overlaping freqs.
All adds up to muddy sound. This is cutting edge thinking, remove these ill effects and then you are steps closer to a better sounding system.

All your posts in many threads lead me to ask this...are you 18 years old?
Funny, I was thinking the same about you.

Perhaps you could provide some links to that 'cutting edge thinking' about the 'gravity effect' - your explaintion just doesn't hold much water on its own.

So you going to post this opinion on the subforum or not? Please do it in the DIY forum if you want to be a real man

The mass of the cone is a moot point considering the power of the involved in moving it. Let just say its as easy to move a cone on a vertical plane as it is to move it on a horizontal plane. Phase is all about distance and has zero to do with the orientation of a driver. Again, how many subs have you built. How many hours have you spend reading and learning about sub designs?


You are obviously new here, Im definitely not 18...My question was a serious one. How old are you? I do not like having a discussion with kids or students, they just live in a bubble of inexperience and I have my own kids to have silly debates with.

I have lots of posts because I have spend a lot of time correcting the bad info people like you post. I feel its my duty to make sure audio ignorance is stopped in its tracks

Googlegod, I created the thread for you

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18461135

Good luck in having cutting edge thinking, You are batting 1.000 this week against me...I mean 0 for 10 in debates vs me

No, it doesn't. If it does then the sub wasn't designed very well. At all. Sure, gravity is always there, but to say it can affect a sub's driver in some detrimental fashion is plain silly. The force of gravity on the driver's cone is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's minuscule (at best) in comparison to the other forces at play within the driver.



Are you kidding? Do you understand what phasing is? Just because one driver faces downward does not mean that its output will automatically be 90° out-of-phase with a forward-facing driver. LOL.

GoogleGod, I do have to thank you for a good laugh, your quotes will get lots of fun comments from experts who build some of the best subwoofers drivers period...they do post on this forum.

He must be off googling...

So if you have a down firing IB in the ceiling (with opposed drivers) is the phase still off? I mean the sound waves are facing 'down' right?

What if you have 4 drivers in the down firing IB; is that the same result or is the driver facing away 180 deg out of phase and the driver facing you is the only one in phase? Good lord, I bet that would sound awful....

The possibilities are endless

You clearly do not understand that physical rotation of a driver by 90° from vertical to horizontal is not the same as 90° of electrical phase rotation.

Correct. Dan Wiggins wrote a neat little paper on it years ago. Here it is in html, and the .pdf is attached.

 

DriverOrientation.pdf 8.564453125k . file

Hey googlegod,

My question is a bit of topic but in you sig you have "Just say NO to refurbished units". Not sure what your point is but I have bought three Onkyos from shoponkyo with zero issues. In fact the 885 and 886 I bought were brand new units at unbelievable prices.

I'm glad some of the more knowledgable members showed up in this thread. I was ready to deep six my Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. It is a downfiring sub and I was concerned with the effects that gravity might cause. So in your opinion would downfiring subs be the best sub design for use on the Space Shuttle?

Bill

lmao, yeah My IB array with 4 18" woofers is just horrible

I'm not sure how you tolerate it! I'm looking up at my IB array wondering what I was thinking; all the drivers are facing down!!!. I didn't even realize it sounded so off

DaveHCYJ, as the other very experienced members have told you, opting for a processor with MultEQ over 2EQ is HUGE. I have an Onkyo 605 with 2EQ, and regret not getting a receiver with at least MultEQ. Invest a little more and find a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ. It will be A VERY worthy upgrade. Without 2EQ, I have too either re-invest in another reciever with sub processing (roughly a $600-$700 investment) or spend about $300-$400 to get an external Sub-eq to attempt to do what MultEQ would do.

Do yourself a favor and ignore everything "googlegod" has written. He has yet to show up at the thread Penngray has started to defend his theories.

Its time you upgraded to high speed internet service, I wasted all day on basic physic to some very closed minded people