2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 35

Originally Posted by keilwerth

I've witnessed YOUR babbling and that's why I'm asking you to post up or shut up.

Like I said glass of wine equals more actual brain activity documented results than your copper twisted humor.

My past threads are directed at shysters and charlatans.

I've also offered to fly roundtrip well respected forum member at my expense on TUC forum to test this theory of miraculous hearing improvement and report for all to see here.

Did you read that as well?

If you got a pair send them.

Mike

Originally Posted by Gizmologist

Because they actually UNDERSTAND electronics theory and basic physics.

Why would a manufacturer already charging an arm and a leg for a system suddenly decide to "cut costs" and not install the mega buck wiring between the output stage and the speaker terminals.

Same scenario for the speaker manufacturers.

I am amazed that these guys all will discuss the different driver designs, cabinet structures, wood types and used by the hundreds of manufacturers yet all use the same wiring style for the CX and the internal cabinet wiring.

Just MAYBE they understand a bit more about acoustic principles and what does and does NOT make a difference, namely a 10ft piece of wire.

Originally Posted by DonH50

Most audiophiles would be appalled at the processing that goes into recordings... (Insert any number of related stories from my live and studio days here.) Better they don't know this stuff.

Originally Posted by penngray

Which project

Im waiting on some data from Zen Acoustics and hopefully some "Special" pricing. I have JPS products in a box in my office. Im trying to decide how to do analog setup to test those wires, ICs and power plugs. I need a CD player.

I have new boxes build for my XO design (JPS wiring to be used on the XO).

I just started to build a another speaker design similar in looks to the B&W 802Ds.

I found 12" bowls at Target that match the round curve I want for my 10" Waveguide.

He's been added to my list of those who don't deserve any more interaction.

Originally Posted by Gizmologist

Every one of your posts contains zero actual information. You are always speaking in abstracts about studios, networks, etc. and you never offer specific information on anything.

It is always "I have heard this" and "I have read that" etc. You make flat statements about "networks" (incorrect term BTW for the silliness in the JPS boxes) yet you are not even aware of HOW they are in a circuit or whether or not the amp and speakers and CX are in parallel.

Since you seem to believe that you KNOW for a fact that a number of studios use the JPS junk, then why not name the studios by their corporate production name and I will be glad to personally call each and every one to get their take DIRECTLY from them on whether or not they use JPS cables.

To answer your question as to whether I have acquired the JPS junk myself, the answer is an unequivocal no. I do not intend to waste my time or money.

Even you should be able to ask the question (and answer) as to why JPS et al does NOT publish any actual numerical information and why they all run and hide like cockroaches when publicly pushed to provide said information.

Stop and think in the real world for just a minute Tess. If JPS and the others of his ilk actually discovered anything that millions of REAL engineers had not, don't you think the industrial and commercial world would be beating a path to their doors?

It is painfully obvious that you are trying to bail a rowboat with a teaspoon.

You have not factually backed a single claim of anything from any manufacturer with published technical information or even basic electronic knowledge.

I must applaud you on your tenacity though.

Originally Posted by tesseract67

Tell that to this guy. His kits are based around saving people money/bang for the buck. He has forgotten more about speaker design than most of us will ever know!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72093.0

BTW, that is JPS cabling.

Originally Posted by tesseract67

Good on you. Will the XO's be outboard, and will you have a duplicate wired with Home Depot lamp cord to A/B with? Allow for controls.

Subjectivity (looks) are important, no?

OMG, you are kidding I hope. You realize that some heavy math is required to design a waveguide. You have the skills, math guy, break 'em out.

Originally Posted by tesseract67



I provided a studio that uses MIT cabling. You claimed to have emailed them, I would like to see that email.

.

Originally Posted by tesseract67

Agreed. There are recording studios that try harder, seek them out, people. Then examine what it was they did to achieve their goal of higher fidelity.

Originally Posted by Gizmologist

and you can easily hear details unknown in many audiophile style systems as we always biamp and frequently triamp with active external XO systems and active EQ tweaked to the room.

Originally Posted by CruelInventions

You lost me on this one, terry j. I get the part about a certain subset of audiophiles who seem to care just as much or more about quality of the recording itself more so than the actual performance, artistic aspects, etc., but if you do have a poorly mastered recording, especially an overly loud, compressed & limited one, those tend to sound worse on better systems.

In the car with factory stereo equipment, it sounds pretty good. On a system more capable of delivering dynamics, it's more immediately obvious and distracting when you have a recording incapable of delivering dynamics because the life has been squashed out of it, typically at the mastering stage.

Originally Posted by Gizmologist

+1000 I could not agree more. Some of the systems I use require a 100A 240V service just for the amp racks and you can easily hear details unknown in many audiophile style systems as we always biamp and frequently triamp with active external XO systems and active EQ tweaked to the room.

Originally Posted by diomania

Are you still talking about speakers? If so, can you give some names of those companies?

Earlier you said "Most speakers companies aim for flat response", now you say "most of the higher end products, irrespective of cost. Flat is the goal". Change of discussion or change of opinion?

Originally Posted by terry j

Hmm. This is interesting I must say.

Often it is *we* guys that accused of 'listening to test tones' and the like, presumably as some sort of accusation that we do not enjoy our systems to listen to music we like.

Nope, I have my system to listen to the music I love, and love it I most certainly do.

On the other hand, there does seem to be that type of people that strive to collect 'well recorded material'....so which group (as a whole and as a generality) is it that uses recordings to display their system and which just gets back and enjoys their own musical genres???

How do we test this little scenario?? Easy, go to an audiophile meeting, 'Oh, another piece of crappy wanky frickin oh so bloody cool piece of jazz sh1t!', some stupid broad warbling with a piano and upright bass playing absolute shite.

There, HE'S the audioiphile in the room!

Talk about listening to the system, using (very loose term here) music by which to admire the system, rather than having a good system to admire the music you like.

Go to an audio show, what the f*ck will you hear in most music rooms?? Crap, that's what. For sure, very well recorded crap, but shite none the less.

So conclusions, well simply put I only buy music I like and please for my own sake, shoot me if I ever go insane and start to exhibit these revolting auidophile tendencies.

And most importantly, I find the vast majority of recordings far exceed the capability of most systems to play them.


What is a dead giveaway to someone having an extremely limited or idiosyncratic system?? They whinge and moan about the lamentable state of recordings available!!

See, they extrapolate, Just because their own system would blow a dust cap if they ever tried to play NIN does NOT mean that no other system can. Just because their 'oh so pure' system cannot do anything remotely more complex than a stupid bloody jazz trio combo does not mean that recordings as a general rule are bad. 'Ooyuck, modern recordings are so compressed'. Nope, prob his oh so pure one watt SET is clipping like mad and his special edition single driver (prob with proprietary coatings, oh brother) is compressing to the shithouse, but of course it is NEVER their system simply giving up the ghost is it!

I am constantly amazed that (almost) any recording I buy has a soundstage that is huge and enveloping...with detail galore (NOT talking audiophile recordings from some obscure expensive wanky label)...yet I never hear any of that on these (to my ears) pathetic and laughable audioiphile systems.

All these audiophiles chasing the minutiae of cabling, pure signal paths etc etc, sheesh just get better speakers and fix your bloody rooms would ya?

sorry for the outburst, but crap like 'seek out good recordings so you can masturbate in your listening chair about how good the system sounds' really yanks my anti audiophile chain. (' Ohh, the separation of the instruments' 'yeah, but how is the music??' 'Ohh, listen to that chocolate midrange')

Originally Posted by penngray

here is what I do not understand, you have access to cables but you do not want to get them measured?

I guess we are just different. Im not in these discussions to win anything. Im in them to learn as much as possible and if I had access I would try like hell to get down to the truth or even go to great length to PROVE to others why there would be differences. I run a business too and I would never not want to sell anything based alone on subjectiviy. Data should matter.

Originally Posted by tesseract67


It would be interesting to have them measured, if it was more convenient to do so, and I knew for certain that the testing wouldn't damage them.

Originally Posted by terry j

bingo. but of course, eq or signal manipulation is anathema to the audiophile ain't it.

funny thing about power required...which leads me to the broad prediction that most audiophiles amps are clipping far more than they would care to know.

mine is tri amped, using the deqx (about to add a second) using very efficient pro drivers (oops, another angry red cross in the audiophile book). Anyway, for the bass atm I use an old phase linear 700B..three strikes, does that mean I am out??..and for good or bad it uses the VU meters on the front.

Ok, so who knows if it is properly calibrated yada yada, but at least it can be an on the fly indication of the power demands on various music.

So here is the thing that floored us one day when we saw it. We were cranking some heavy stuff, NIN as an indication of what I mean, and the needles were hovering around 50%-70% type thing. And the dbs were up there you follow?

So we throw this (japanese chick?? asian or something?) jazz singer on. Doing norwegian wood IIRC. Vocals, upright bass and what not.

MAN, when he twanged that upright bass the bloody needles nearly broke off from hitting the pins so hard!! We could not believe it!!

The leading edge, the first attack of the bass string, boy the power required to reproduce it.

That's when it struck me just how much power we can really need. Which led me to the rather strong feeling that most peoples amps, if not clipping, are strangling the sound.

Very enlightening day that one.



Obviously there can be times when a statement needs a little flesh on the bones. As I have a reputation of being wordy at times, I tend to try and hold back now hahaha!!

Don't for one second think that I feel there is no such animal as a bad recording, of course there are. Plenty in that thar zoo.

Now, for all I know that could simply be a reflection of the (very broad tho) types of music I listen too. Maybe britney spears DOES sound horrible all the time. But I doubt britney spears would be the first choice of the average audiophile either .

The other side of this coin?? Hey, as a very good example, Muse is often quoted as being poor quality recordings. But you gotta think to yourself that they have the knowledge and resources to get whatever sound they want! I mean they are not some fresh faced new kids on the block.

So, somewhere within all this too we need to make room for the fact that it is a valid artistic choice to put out a cd that sounds the way they want. Maybe we don't like it, but hey who are we to tell them how to make their music? That, again, is leaving out the (few) obvious examples of just plain piss poor mastering.

Which really makes me enjoy my party trick, I play them some muse on my system and they just get up ashen faced and completely stunned.

BUT, I have found that MY ratio of bad to good is exceedingly small. Far far lower than you'd think from reading the whinging audiophile moanin and groanin. And, let's face it, you go and have a listen to some of these systems and it is damn hard work to a) not say anything and b)somehow keep what you really feel from showing on your face in a grimace of pain.

I mean a stupid but all too common example, some of these things SCREAM at you. Who knows why, excess midrange, peaks in the response ringing for hours, you know. (often the more 'audiophile' a system is the more idiosyncratic it is)

Crikey, no wonder they have such a high bad to good ratio!

But, your point is also essentially true, especially when taken in the context of THIS discussion!

With the state of audio reproduction nowadays, the single biggest barrier to good sound is the recording itself.

Electronics, forget it. Cables, don't make me gag. Isolation cones, cable lifters and other mumbo jumbo don't mean a lick of difference, especially when placed against the BIG THREE..recording quality, speakers and speaker room interaction.

I mean, what better way to illustrate what I mean than for others (if they can actually stomach it) to read this. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/f...gilesouls.html

Originally Posted by Johnla

That is nonsense, unless someone was going to try use them for arc welding with them as a means of a test/measuring them, they will not be damaged.
Testing/measuring cables is not going to damage them.

Originally Posted by terry j

Hmm, seems a few decided that it somehow DID make sense. Not surprised you are not one of them.

Originally Posted by tesseract67

I am concerned about the networks, not the wires so much. For instance, electronic cable burn in devices can damage the networks. If Giz or Penn lived down the street, I would bring their favorite beverage and my cables right over.