Originally Posted by Gizmologist
and you can easily hear details unknown in many audiophile style systems as we always biamp and frequently triamp with active external XO systems and active EQ tweaked to the room.
bingo. but of course, eq or signal manipulation is anathema to the audiophile ain't it.
funny thing about power required...which leads me to the broad prediction that most audiophiles amps are clipping far more than they would care to know.
mine is tri amped, using the deqx (about to add a second) using very efficient pro drivers (oops, another angry red cross in the audiophile book). Anyway, for the bass atm I use an old phase linear 700B..three strikes, does that mean I am out??..and for good or bad it uses the VU meters on the front.
Ok, so who knows if it is properly calibrated yada yada, but at least it can be an on the fly indication of the power demands on various music.
So here is the thing that floored
us one day when we saw it. We were cranking some heavy stuff, NIN as an indication of what I mean, and the needles were hovering around 50%-70% type thing. And the dbs were up there you follow?
So we throw this (japanese chick?? asian or something?) jazz singer on. Doing norwegian wood IIRC. Vocals, upright bass and what not.
MAN, when he twanged that upright bass the bloody needles nearly broke off from hitting the pins so hard!! We could not believe it!!
The leading edge, the first attack of the bass string, boy the power required to reproduce it.
That's when it struck me just how much power we can really need.
Which led me to the rather strong feeling that most peoples amps, if not clipping, are strangling the sound.
Very enlightening day that one.
Originally Posted by CruelInventions
You lost me on this one, terry j. I get the part about a certain subset of audiophiles who seem to care just as much or more about quality of the recording itself more so than the actual performance, artistic aspects, etc., but if you do have a poorly mastered recording, especially an overly loud, compressed & limited one, those tend to sound worse on better systems.
In the car with factory stereo equipment, it sounds pretty good. On a system more capable of delivering dynamics, it's more immediately obvious and distracting when you have a recording incapable of delivering dynamics because the life has been squashed out of it, typically at the mastering stage.
Obviously there can be times when a statement needs a little flesh on the bones. As I have a reputation of being wordy at times, I tend to try and hold back now hahaha!!
Don't for one second think that I feel there is no such animal as a bad recording, of course there are. Plenty in that thar zoo.
Now, for all I know that could simply be a reflection of the (very broad tho) types of music I listen too. Maybe britney spears DOES sound horrible all the time. But I doubt britney spears would be the first choice of the average audiophile either .
The other side of this coin?? Hey, as a very good example, Muse is often quoted as being poor quality recordings. But you gotta think to yourself that they have the knowledge and resources to get whatever sound they want! I mean they are not some fresh faced new kids on the block.
So, somewhere within all this too we need to make room for the fact that it is a valid artistic choice to put out a cd that sounds the way they want.
Maybe we don't like it, but hey who are we to tell them
how to make their
music? That, again, is leaving out the (few) obvious examples of just plain piss poor mastering.
Which really makes me enjoy my party trick, I play them some muse on my system and they just get up ashen faced and completely stunned.
BUT, I have found that MY ratio of bad to good is exceedingly small. Far far lower than you'd think from reading the whinging audiophile moanin and groanin. And, let's face it, you go and have a listen to some of these systems and it is damn hard work to a) not say anything and b)somehow keep what you really feel from showing on your face in a grimace of pain.
I mean a stupid but all too common example, some of these things SCREAM at you. Who knows why, excess midrange, peaks in the response ringing for hours, you know. (often the more 'audiophile' a system is the more idiosyncratic it is)
Crikey, no wonder they have such a high bad to good ratio!
But, your point is also essentially true, especially when taken in the context of THIS discussion!With the state of audio reproduction nowadays, the single biggest barrier to good sound is the recording itself.
Electronics, forget it. Cables, don't make me gag. Isolation cones, cable lifters and other mumbo jumbo don't mean a lick of difference, especially when placed against the BIG THREE..recording quality, speakers and speaker room interaction.
I mean, what better way to illustrate what I mean than for others (if they can actually stomach it) to read this. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/f...gilesouls.html