2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 8

there is a lot of stuff about totem being thrown here. I have totems and they do go low, but they don't go low enough in the -3db range to warrant not having a sub.

i doubt they go to 21hz at -3db youd be hard pressed if they did 30hz at -3db.

I have done a few sweeps on them with my 2ch which has no xover and i recall them being reliable around 40-48hz area but it was all downhill afterwards so to speak.

they are also loaded with lead shot

What exactly is physically not possible?

That a tower speaker can provide in-room response below 25Hz?

Do you have Totem Wind?

Robert's comment referred to that specific speaker, not all Totems.

Call me crazy, but they sure look capable of reproducing some low frequencies.

Its great how threads twist and turn on and off the topic.

With the proper cables Im sure those Totem speakers create the best bass possible

I know this topic about main speakers and low frequency response is OT but I will simply say that the best overall measured response in a room is obtained by separating any non-localized bass from the main speakers and positioning it where the best in room response can be made. Even the totems do not have what I can superior bass compared to a JL sub and a better setup would have the totems running down to 70Hz and then the superior sub in the optimal location handling < 70Hz
Wether people like this or do this is irrelevant, its just a better overall in room response. . People have to realize the multiple issues of running main speakers that low to understand what Im posting until people do understand that they are just going to argue from a 100% subjective position which again is meaningless in terms of pure performance and accuracy.

Yeah, I tried to pull some of the OT stuff out of the thread

I have no doubt that using a sub is better in virtually every instance. I personally will never build a 2 ch or HT system that does not include one or more subs.

Many of the 2 ch purists seem to like to run their towers alone for stereo - not me...

...I just took offense to the level of personal attack and the specific reference to a comment about a tower that is capable of low frequency response (whether it is ever the best solution for a space is a totally different question).

I agree with you!


btw, those totem speakers are nice speakers. I auditioned a pair on Montreal about a year ago. Im have been looking for similar mid range drivers for a DIY build, still no luck.

Agreed. Once you properly set up a pair of JL Audio subs in a 2 channel system it's difficult to consider purchasing a pair of large high quality loudspeakers over a smaller high quality 2 or 3 way design. Subs have never been too popular in audiophile circles, typically because they did not integrate well with good main loudspeakers- you always heard the sub's signature. Not as much any more.

What's up guys. Been reading this thread on my phone during my digital logic design class anyways, thought I'd chime in. I've recently had a chance to A/B the audioquest gibralter cable (from audio advisor) at my local dealer compared to the premium monoprice cable. Neither my roommate, my dealer, or I could hear any discernable difference... and if there was one (a big IF), then it is certainly not worth the two grand premium lol.

Now Im hungry

No. As impractical as that may be, it is still theoretically possible. I was referring to chicagorep's following comments (bolding is mine):


He argued that an individual does not need a subwoofer just because totems go down to 21Hz. Then as if that was not bad enough, he said:


This WON'T happen in our physical universe.

He then jumps into a cable thread implicitly arguing exotic cables will improve the accuracy of sound reproduction, contrary to the findings of every single scientific research. His evidence is basically science is unreliable and in God we should trust.

Do you see the trend here so far?

When I call him on it, he calls me essentially: "dumb", "child", and a "coward" because I dared question his motives.

I wasn't aware you were emotionally attached to Totem Winding speakers (or whatever they are called). I apologize for hurting your emotions by hinting they are bound by laws of physics in our universe.

As far as attacking, I am not the one who used insults. If I did, feel free to quote and I will apologize.

Apologies in advance to all for being so far OT - but I come here to participate in discussion, questioning people back and forth, and trying to show respect to each other.


It is not only theoretically possible, I am quite certain that many tower speakers DO exist that DO provide frequency response well down into the 20s.



Just because a Totem Wind system would be better with a QUALITY (Rythmik F12 or better) sub included does not mean that a huge number of people would not be completely satisfied with the bass response from those speakers alone.

Many people prefer to run their 2 ch without a sub (I am not one) - and for them the Totem Wind would provide better bass response than the vast majority of towers out there.


Why do you say this so emphatically?

Or are you upset because he does not talk about the probable need for EQing to deal with room effects?

I can understand skepticism based on a lack of discussion of room acoustics to impacting particularly bass response and the effects of speaker placement on that but that warrants a reply in the original thread of

"I believe you are ignoring the huge impact on bass response of room acoustics and therefore the limited positions in a room without EQing that would provide such soundstage and imaging."

and provide the individual a chance to respond in the original thread to a reasonable response instead of a multi-thread derision campaign.

Just my $0.02 on forum etiquette

Well that's only an 8.5" driver with not a particularly large surround, so they may do it, but certainly not very loud.

Note also the spec says "24 Hz - 21 kHz ± 3 dB (in room)" so my guess is some room gain is helping extend the LF. Certainly a questionable spec as anyone who has done any REW sweeps will know that +/- 3dB in room for any speaker below Schroeder is a big call.

How about some green eggs and ham?

It feels like the end of 'Saving Private Ryan' around here.

You know, you are the only one posting like a child and my wife just said that post is definitely a "hissy-fit"

To you and your buddies in PM, grow some balls, real men do not sit in ponder or remotely worry about the "respect" from someone in an open forum on the internet.

Its pretty simple....Argue the facts with facts or stop posting opinion. Im very happy to be convinced but you have yet to post anything remotely convincing.

btw, no one is afraid to ask you anything. You have 46 posts and 46 times you have posted proving that you know little about audio science so why WOULD anyone ask you anthing intelligent?

Woud you eat them with a mouse,
Would you eat them in a house......




lmao, so true about Private Ryan>

What is your point? I never said "there are no speakers that can do it". In fact I know several that do: Wilson Alexandria, Rockport Arakkis and even a lot cheaper Revel Salon 2 and Aerial 20T. I am sure there are many others too.


Of course it is possible. Some people have lower quality standards than others.


I can't comment on this. Like I said several times before I do not even know the frequency response of this speaker. If it has better bass than say speaker X, what does that have to do with anything? I don't recall stating something like "Totems have the worst bass ever". They will sound better than some speakers and they will sound worse than some others. Your point is?


This is well-known fact. Ideal location for imaging will never result with quality low-frequency response. Floyd O'Toole measured low frequency response at different listening positions to be as wide as 40db when subwoofers are not used. I recommend you read some of O'Toole's and Geddes' work in this area. There is a lot of research and conclusive findings.


Well, like I said I did and he obviously never read based on his response. It is apparent he left as soon as he posted his advertisement.

Assume they go down to 10Hz let alone 20Hz, so what? They will still sound like crap due to their placement inflexibility if for nothing else.


You were anything but up-front. Do you recall how many times mcnarus had to ask you before you finally gave in?

That was part of my point; the rest was the questionable and misleading specs and that they can't possibly go very loud cleanly because of the limited volume displacement.

That is your opinion. Respectful interaction is a pleasant way to debate a topic. You can present arguments and prove someone wrong without resorting to a disrespectful tone and wording. All that does is create a downward spiral where everyone feels they have to respond in kind in order for their voices to be heard. And that is what I have learned happens the majority of the time there is a debate on AVS. Sorry, I prefer to treat those who I disagree with respectfully. And last time I checked, I still had balls .

...and hypocritically.
Simply searching your posts reveals that you don't often treat anyone respectfully...and then you whine about it here?

No whining, just stating my point of view. I will admit I crossed the line into disrepect a few time earlier in this thread in response to receiving a barrage of disrespectful comments in opposition to opinions I stated. And for those I offended, my sincere apologies. However, if we all practiced a little respect, then this wouldn't have happened.

"disrespectful tone and wording" is a very subjective thing and often people just interpet the worst and most are those who hate their subjective opinions being questioned. Its not direspectful to question someone's opinion asking for facts.

In one of your first posts directed at me you said I was disrespectful. Unless I called you a name, Im not being disrespectful. I strongly question the opinion and the motive that has nothing to do with respect. It simply has to do with correcting flawed arguements and make sure others reading are not mislead.

Its an online forum where audio debates happen, strong will and simplistic bluntness is common (and is needed more). I mean geesh, its not a gardening forum

Look at the response of every subjective opinion being questioned....its just seems those type of people are too defensive and should not post subjective opinion in the first place. I keep saying this but if someone is going to post subjective opinion without any data they should be prepared to be called out and questioned.

I think you hang out in the wrong forums if you think AVS overall is like this.

This is my conclusion as well. We finally agree .

Of course, it's somebody elses fault.

Sure but Im not the guy wanting to mute anyone at all (you support that idea and that is sad for a highly educated man!!).

Everyone can have a voice and post what they want. Just expect opinion to be questioned.

Maybe people live in a 'glass house' world where they are very succesful and never questioned? They come on here and post something extremely subjective expecting the same sort of peer bowing they get in the real world?

Not in a million years online because if the opinion is flawed then we will post it is and why.

I don't prefer that you are muted. Actually, up until these past couple of threads that have gone down the crapper I've enjoyed reading your comments and found them quite useful. I believe that you contribute positively much of the time (but I cannot prove this ).

Talking about balls and coward. Why don't you grow a pair and stop being one, put your money where your mouth is at and take me up on my challange?

You apparently have not spent much time in a gardening forum...